Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

Horse and water.

 

It's not hard to deduce that there's a strong bond between them from the evidence that Vizsla has.

Firstly, Obi-Wan sticks to Satine like glue when they infiltrate his Concordian mine. Sure, Obi-Wan's protectiveness could easily be dismissed as a zealous fulfilment of his duty as a Jedi, but it's grounds for reasonable suspicion.

Secondly, and more significantly, even after Satine is framed for murder and forced to flee on Coruscant, Obi-Wan is with her and fighting off a Death Watch assassin. The Jedi Order have no real interest in protecting a fugitive murder suspect (in fact, their initial interest in Satine is in the possibility of her building a Mandalorian army, not in her well being) but this lone Jedi does have her back. The assassin in question lives to tell Vizsla about Obi-Wan's thwarting of his plot.

Just based on this, it's easy to deduce that there's a strong bond between Satine and Obi-Wan. They're close friends at the very least. This is why Vizsla, after being ditched by the CIS, is so intent on getting a Force-sensitive on his side before moving against the New Mandalorians. It's why he keeps Maul and Savage alive after arresting them, because he knows that he needs their power against Satine's special friend.

Almec doesn't know much about Satine's relationship with Obi-Wan. He does know about Ahsoka, but he isn't the one setting the agenda in this arc.

 

In the Season 2 Mandalore arc, Vizsla is a governor and Obi-Wan talks about having spent a year on Mandalore protecting Satine from insurgents. Perhaps, during that year, Vizsla discovered the extent of their relationship.

 

How did Sidious hide his presence before the Jedi? In EP III's novel when Dooku summoned the power of the Dark Side to strengthen himself he could see Palpatine as "absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond Darkness". In the Shadow Conspiracy it was also mentioned "To them(who could feel the Force), he was a dark sun blazing with power that is simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold." It's not like Yoda is weak at sense the Dark Side, he sensed Maul's return from so far away.

 

If you take the EU into account, Sidious is able to conceal his presence at leisure. In EPIII's novel, Dooku is looking at their essence "through the eyes of the dark side." Here, it's pretty obvious he only allowed Maul to sense his presence right when he was outside the door.

 

I agree he should be able to hide his presence in the Force when he is not doing anything, but when he is using his power like this episode, it is weird that the Jedi still could not sense it. At least they should be able to sense a dreadful darkness in the palace even if they could not identify it.

 

Now that I agree with. Unless you chalk it up to Obi-Wan being distracted with the fighting, but a scene where he gets a spontaneous headache would have been nice and menacing.

 

It is wholly subjective. Maul killing Satine, caused Obi Wan's emotions to spike, Palpatine told Mas in the Novel that there was a disturbance in the force... so maybe its not the Sith as much, but the acts they commit. Or maybe he is really in tune with Kenobi, look at how he sensed Vader in peril because of Obi Wan.

 

SithStarSlayer, when are we getting your thoughts on this episode?

 

In the review thread.

 

It's clear Maul could sense his master even before he started to fight them.

In EP III Anakin could also sense the fight of Windu and Sidious through the Force, not sure why Obi Wan and Yoda could not sense this.

 

Maybe the force did not want them to. They are not all seeing.

 

I liked this episode.
I loved it, even.
However despite how cool it was to have Korkie and the gang to return, to see Palpatine vs. the brothers, to see the Night Owls in action, to see the debut of the Red Guards and have Ki-Adi speak (!); the episode's pacing was terrible. This could/ should have been two episodes, and seeing the Droids arc before this makes it all the more painful. Korkie's failed rescue of Satine at the beginning of the episode should have been drawn out, and the kids' fate should've been shown. Greater interaction between Obi-Wan and the rest of the Order should have been shown. Obi-Wan's rescue of Satine should've been expanded and his and Maul's interactions expanded, too. The battle of Mandalore should've been expanded (and not every shot of it released as previews in the past ). Also, the twelve lines pulled directly from the films were nauseating.

That being said, I really loved the episode because it was just so well executed visually, continued the Mandalorian arcs from Seasons 2, 3 and 4 and Savage's story arc and actually had consequences (real deaths of characters!)

8.5/10

QFT.

 

Has the Filoni meme been reborn?

Yeah besides thinking Katan being Satine's sister was contrived as **** along with Maul not killing Kenobi when he has the perfect chance there were still fights that entertained me and my caveman mind rather then boring me. like last ep a 7

 

They should use the whole season 5 to build this arc.

 

In all honesty, quite possible the BEST TCW episode and story arch ever made. I have watched it twice and still want more. I wish all Star Wars was this good. This was pure awesomeness galore.Dear god I hope the new movies are this good!!!! Some truly epic moments in this one. Everything was perfect.

I fail to see why they put so much filler (like the last 4 horrible episodes before it) and not just cut the season in half so we get more QUALITY like this. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!!!!

 

Where is that thread,cant seem to find it?

Somehow I dont think this episode was amazin.I knew allthe spoilers and I guess I expected too much.Loved that talk that Maul and Kenobi had before he killed Satine.It was great how Kenobi told him to use dark side is weak and that he was at his village and Maul didnt had choice.When Satine died it was so sad,one of the most emotional deaths on a show.
Due with Sidious was pretty good and it was nice how he used Starkiller move in killing Savage.But somehow dont get Savage`s death,Maul had time to get involved in the fight before Sidious stroke him down.At the end I think Maul loved Savage in his own way,the only way he knew,he was sure gratefull that Savage saved him from his personal hell he lived in for decade.I really felt sorry for Maul in that moment.After all its Maul who is the biggest victim of Sidious schemes.Maul really put up good fight against his Master but I cannot hate begging for mercy part and that fact that happened before Sidious force lightening.Maul surely must have known he and Savage doesnt stand much chance against some as powerfull as Sidisou so I m thinking he excepted his death in al lthis,but then why begg?He must have known Sidious doesnt react to mery.Sidious prved once again the real reason why he came personally,to show Maul he still makes or breaks his life.It will be very intresting to see what will happen in next season.I hope for some kind of Maul/Talzin/Sidious arc.

 

Wow, Korkie and co. have aged.





I didn't even recognise them. This episode had great continuity with the Season 3 duology.

 

It seems as those three suffers from the Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome...

 

I'm pretty sure two years is meant to have passed since Corruption... And teenagers do age quickly in a short amount of time

 

The one encased in a statue was the one he lost when fighting Windu. However, thanks to this episode, I think his keeping that lightsaber in the statue is now retconned/rendered non-canon as previous EU sources explained that the lightsaber had never been used before the Mace duel since the time it was encased there.

 

TPM 3D. That's the only reason. Lucas is a businessman after all.

This is exactly why I loathed the idea of Maul being back, esp in TCW. We know he won't make it...now they are trying to destroy the characters legacy by making him appear weak and pathetic. If Maul was to come back properly, it should have happened in the Sequel Trilogy OR the live action tv series (if it will be made at all)

As to this episode, it was not as good as the last one. The duel was not as good as Maul vs Vizla. And Maul was tossed around far, far too easily. It's like he suddenly forgot how to use the Force. Anakin, the chosen one, could not toss Obi Wan around...when they both tried force pushing each other in ROTS they were evenly matched. Maul didn't even try something like that.

Bad, bad writing. Much worse than the movies.

Satine's death was sad, but expected. She was a great character, she should have been left alive for the Live Action Show. Bo Katan should have bit it, as she is a mary sue stereotypical character. Satine was something special though. It's far too easy to give in to the fan boy appeasement desire of making a tough warrior babe; we have Assaj as a dark side lightsaber weilding femme fatale, now we have Boba Fett with breasts. Satine was neither of these things, and her regal bearing, sophistication and mental strength were far, far more attractive than anything Assaj or Katan could come up with.
Or even Padme and Leia.

Oh well, at least they didn't have Maul put Satine in a golden bikini and sit on his lap when Obi Wan was brought in.

Savage's death was sad too. I am conflicted about them showing Maul showing so much sadness and emotion at his death. The way he channeled that emotion into rage against Sidious was well done, but too brief, and it didn't matter anyway as Sidious just Force Slammed him against the wall.

I'm hoping they reveal 'Maul' to be someone else...say a Nightbrother brainwashed by Talzin into thinking he is Maul or something?

Oh well, whatever the case it's not like these are the movies. TPM Maul will always be the real Maul to me, not this pathetic caricature on metal prongs.

 

Great episode, anytime you get to see Darth Sidious in action, it's something to special.

 

I know the statue saber and the Windu-fight saber are the same, even if I didn't quite word my post well enough to convey that. I'm just going with the idea that the saber in the statue is still there, as it always was, and the two Sidious uses in the Mandalore duel are two more, in addition to that one. At this point, there's nothing definitively contradicting the story of the saber in the statue, nothing unequivocally stating those on Mandalore are the same exact two from the movie. Thus, as there is no direct conflict, there's still a saber in the Sistros statue in his office. Besides, Sidious is the walking endorsement for having a Plan B, and half the rest of the alphabet stashed up your sleeve. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised or bothered if it was revealed he had a small assortment of lightsabers spread throughout his everyday domain—offices, apartment, ships—should the need for one suddenly arise.

 

There is so much to say about this episode, and strangely enough, I can't recall every single thing I took notice of, but I'll do my best to post most of my thoughts:

- First of all, another absolutely MIND-BLOWING TCW episode! Filoni, Lucas and the whole crew, I applaud the amazing entertainment you brought us with this arc so far!

- The "In Memoriam to Ian Abercrombie" at the beginning was a very heartwarming touch.
He will be missed, but his screen legacy will live on.

- I didn't remember / realise back when they showed the preview with Bo and Kenobi fighting off red armored Deathwatch members at CVI that their paint deco is based on their new master Maul. What a brilliant idea, especially that horned commander. Gives the perfect contrast to the original blue Deathwatch members.

- Satine, poor Satine. I seriously did not see this coming. You so wanted to experience the fulfilment of them getting together, but tragedy decided otherwise.

- Maul, first you kill off Obi Wan's master/ father figure, then you take his one true love.

- Obi Wan trying to reason with Maul, relating to him being treated as a tool of the Nightsisters, was something I would have never expected. A great Luke in ROTJ homage when Kenobi resists giving in to the hatred, the same kind of hatred he partially drew from during his reckless final duel with Darth Maul in TPM.

Incidentally, TPM was just broadcast on TV this Friday. Didn't even know, so I turned it on during their taking off to return to Naboo scene on the landing plaform. I haven't seen it in its entirety since February's 3D release and haven't watched it dubbed in German in forever. The movie is still every bit as wonderful as it ever was. How people can passionately hate a movie of this type is beyond me.
Watching Duel of the Fates with the knowledge of what is going to happen +10 GFFA years down the line made for a very interesting experience. I found it rather okay to suddenly view Maul's death as something non-permanent, but rather as a "the danger has been fought off ...for now" kind of situation. Like he's a mummy or the T-1000.
I am now definitely glad they brought him back. It wasn't really necessary, but it made for very memorable stories, so that makes it absolutely fine.

- Did Yoda receive a character model makeover? His performance was so alive. His skin looked more ages and "grimy". They used his screentime was used very effectively, too.

- The Twilight truly went out with a bang. The way it was rotating around its own axis burning was a very threatening sight.

- There were quite a few dialogue homages linking to the films. Some worked very well, others hit a bit too close to the original use. I wish they hadn't copied Obi Wan's "Anakin's the father, isn't he? I am so sorry." with Bo Katan when he askes her if she is Satine's sister. A line that had such a dramatic impact in ROTS shouldn't be used as an homage to something else.

- While finally getting to see his red Royal Guards make their debut on the series, I'm not sure it was a good idea to show Palpatine on Coruscant asking for a Shuttle, making the connection to Sidious extremely obvious even to the youngest viewers. Remember, there are a lot of kids yet oblivious to the fact they're the same person (and admit it, neither were we 100% on this until we say ROTS). IMO, that reveal should have been preserved for ROTS. Just have a shuttle land on Mandalore, with no prior scene explaining who is arriving. Though, maybe they intended to do just that, reveal Palpatine is Sidous at this point in time.

- Where is the Black Sun Syndicate and the Pykes?

- I never thought we'd see Korkie and friends appear again on the series. I'm really not a fan of The Academy, but I appreciated their cameos.

- The great Ian Abercrombe has had the fortune of his final recorded episode being one of the greatest if not the greatest he appeared on. What better could a late performer ask for. He left us on an incredibly high note. I loved how during the Sith Lightning scene he channeled his true dark side, the way Palpatine did when knighting Anakin a Sith Lord. Abercrombe always had such class and believability. I'll forever remember him for memorable characters like Mr.Pitt on Seinfeld and TCW's Palpatine. His spirit will live on for future generations.

- The duel- I am at a loss for words. That's how incredible it was. That final part with the glorious Pablo Picasso-esque Mandalorian mural in the background, what a brilliant move to feature it again during such a pivotal duel.

- I loved how Savage started dissolving in green Nightsister smoke. It makes the overpowered factor that has been part of him since his creation more believable. That's how I interpret it: he didn't defeat the Jedi because of his brute force and the quick trials he had been taught by Dooku, but because he is made of an energy by Force manipulators. The clay has already been formed before he had been handed a red Lightsaber. It also leaves it open for interpretation whether Maul is technically really alive, or just a zombie creation given a second chance that might dissolve into smoke, just like his brother.

- Darth Maul showing emotional attachment was very gripping. I am not entirely sure how I feel about him begging for his life, though.

- Is that ever one of the biggest cliffhangers on an animated TV series?
What is Sidious up to with Maul?

Clearly a lot of effort, thought and labor went into making what we have seen of this arc so far. Again, excellent job from everyone working on the show.