TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.17 - Sabotage - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    I seriously think the Clovis arc had an explanation to this, seeing as the Trade Federation was going to play a major part from what I understand, this arc follows events after that arc. Now however, Clovis is in Season 6 or in the DVD.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm sure this has been mentioned already but I'm pretty sure the Separatists already run Cato Neimoidia.

    I do think the Clovis arc was supposed to take place there though, and if the Clovis arc was supposed to take place in between the Maul arc and this one...bad move, TCW. Seriously ****ing stupid. Nothing says "plot hole" like eliminating the beginning of a story.
  3. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    For me, it doesn't matter if there are plot holes and inconsistencies as long as it's a good yarn. RotS qualifies!

    For me, a real world explanation always trumps an in-universe one.
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  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    star 6
    Lando, why don't you ask why everybody blames Obama/Bush/any President for the failures of the nation, when there are millions of people involved in most of the decisions?


    I think the Jedi are the symbol of peace and order in the galaxy. People aren't going to blame the Senate or Palpatine so much when the war is led by the Council against a former Jedi master. The cartoon has shown us that beings out in the galaxy don't seem to understand the concept of the Sith.

    As far as CT's point about why are people blaming the Jedi for the explosion, I expect it was a rumor that was purposely started. Given the 9/11 Truthers, Sandy lake deniers IRL, I expect many people could have some sort of conspiracy theory.

    The other aspect I guess is that the Jedi Temple being bombed shows just how far things have come - the guardians of peace and order have their temple bombed! Also shows (foreshadowing LOE/Pre-ROTS) that Coruscant may not be as safe as the Republic believes.
  5. Embomania Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 1
    The entire series is made up of telling stories in a non-linear way...They kind of stopped doing that after the first half of Season 3, but still. "Hostage Crisis" ended Season 1, but we didn't really understand it entirely until Season 3.

    Actually, Star Wars is entirely made up of telling a linear story in a non-linear way.
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  6. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I could have sworn most of the convo dealt with in universe perspectives for why John Smith would start protesting the Jedi. I don't TCW justified Letta's actions at all. I certainly don't. Letta is branded a traitor and arrested. There are bad eggs, nutjobs, and extremists in every movement even peaceful ones. I mean there is PETA and then there is ALF for animal rights. One protests and the other is fond of arson.

    Because the Jedi are acting in command of the republic's military forces. The clones troopers are under their jurisdiction and have no power what so ever to end the war. Then they are just soldiers. My uncle flew F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam. Protesting to him would not have pulled America out of Vietnam faster. You want to protest the people in charge. The Jedi are soft and easy to protest. When it comes to Bounty Hunters Cad Bane for example has been involved in a few Separatist plots but he's not a part of their movement. He has no power to end anything. We haven't seen any bounty hunters actually hired by the Republic yet

    Yes there are politicians on both sides but on Coruscant I'd imagine you'd picket the Jedi, the Republic Senate, and try Palp's version of the white house. There is a chance you'd get immediately arrested and beaten in the Republic if you showed up on the last two's lawns and waved around signs. With the Republics corruption and all I can see why folks would pick the Jedi. In the past Jedi were peace keepers who probably either diplomatically or through force ended wars. People in universe probably have a hard time disconnecting from that.

    I agree with @Garth Maul. Its a sign of the times and the Jedi are falling because they stepped out of their tradition role force or not.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 10, 2013
  7. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    [IMG]
  8. Order66Survivor Jedi Master

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    Nov 10, 2012
    star 1
    Goosebumps .
  9. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    That's what I just got from seeing the @GGrievous post.
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  10. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    [IMG]


    Look, its GG. I'll just fix up that part of my post a little bit. I don't know what my dyslexia and backwoods stump jumping English would do without you.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 10, 2013
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  11. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Excuse of the day.
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  12. Theo333 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2011
    star 1
    Well gee whiz, didn't something like this happen when the CIS hired Cad Bane, infiltrated the Temple at Season 1's end, and his robot pal became a bomb? Nope, all signs lean towards the Jedi for some reason.
  13. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Times have changed apparently. Opinion was with them when Cad Bane broke into the temple to steal the holocron. Now as the war goes opinions have changed.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 10, 2013
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  14. Air Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    Nobody seems to appreciate the Jedi, very sad.
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  15. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Everyone saying there would probably be a bunch more people protesting at Palpatine's house if people weren't afraid of getting shot....I don't get that impression. I feel like we're supposed to believe that Palpatine is incredibly popular compared to the Senate and the Jedi. Maybe TCW itself hasn't shown this as much (yet) but it's what all the secondary sources have told us, and even that short-lived TCW HoloNet News supplement by Pablo made a big deal out of Palpatine's approval rating having fallen to....(gasp) 85 percent!!!

    I suspect the public is relatively fond of Palpatine because he's carefully positioned himself to constantly be in the public eye as a sort of reassuring, grandfatherly figure constantly fighting an uphill battle to secure more power from the corrupt Senate so that he can finally put an end to this destructive conflict. The fact that until recently he's had to settle for backhandedly defending the Jedi in order to smear them ("Lightsaber Lost") indicates that the Jedi also have enjoyed reasonable popularity until the war dragged on past a certain point and Jedi like Krell started to turn traitor. Palpatine probably managed to mostly avoid the fallout from these events because 1) he's successfully been able to pawn off the bulk of the responsibility for the war's prosecution on the Senate and the Jedi and 2) he's not a Jedi, and his past defense of the Order allows the anti-Jedi public to sympathize with him as having been similarly duped.

    edit: And as for the Republic citizenry viewing the Clone Wars as a conflict entirely engineered by Jedi, try looking at things as your average Joe Coruscant would see them:

    The Jedi basically subverted democracy by creating an illegal army of clones in secret. The initial order was placed a decade before the war broke out. The Jedi clearly knew something everybody else didn't--mighty suspicious, right?

    Then, a few years before the war starts, an ex-Jedi--not even any old ex-Jedi, but an ex-Jedi Master, an ex-Jedi Councilor, one of the most prominent and visible members of the Order with a history of badmouthing the Republic--turns traitor and starts rallying backwater alien-infested star systems into a frenzy.

    Then a couple more Jedi go and get themselves captured by the aforementioned ex-Jedi on some random planet of barbarians in the middle of nowhere on the Outer Rim, leading to a couple hundred more Jedi charging in with the clone army they just pulled out of their back pocket and kick-starting the first battle of the war that's now been raging on thousands of planets for almost three years.

    It really does start to look like a war of the Jedi, by the Jedi, and for the Jedi if you squint your eyes a little bit and tilt your head at the right angle, which an angry and frustrated galactic populace looking for someone to blame would be more than happy to do.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Feb 10, 2013
  16. pronker Force Ghost

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    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    I shall have patience, then, as various Jedi advise.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    I just don't get the impression there could be such a rowdy protest as we saw on the temple steps on Palp's lawn. I don't get the impression there could be such a rowdy protest on the Senate's steps either. Not like I might see infront of the White House. Maybe shooting would be a bit extreme, but if clones are involved given what happened in "Deception" with the prison break its hard to say. They were quick to use deadly force there. I do think arrests would be much quicker and for less. Even so, it would seem easier and safer to picket the Jedi. The Chancellor and the politicians will see that fine.

    And I'm sure the Jedi have plenty of sympathizers. Just because we didn't see any in this episode that focused more on the growing disapproval doesn't mean they don't exist anymore.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 10, 2013
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  18. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    If a crowd of protesters formed on the front steps of 500 Republica, I'll bet Palpatine would step out (sans guards, for maximum effect), give an impromptu, impassioned speech straight from the heart, and single-handedly disperse the crowd by reasonably and satisfactorily addressing each of their concerns one-by-one by taking full responsibility while simultaneously absolving himself of all blame.

    edit: And Palpatine's genius is that by taking a tepid pro-Jedi stance, he's able to appeal to both anti- and pro-Jedi citizens. As I mentioned before, the anti-Jedi citizens see a good-natured old man trying his best to work with a recalcitrant Jedi Order but eventually coming around to see the truth--while the pro-Jedi citizens can take him at his word that he stands behind the Order, which makes it all the more convincing when Palpatine, Friend of the Jedi, comes out before the Senate and, with a heavy heart, informs the Republic that the Jedi were traitors all along, and even took advantage of his trust by using their pretense of friendship to make a brutal attempt on his life.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Feb 10, 2013
  19. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    People aren't always that straight forward when they are righteously pissed off and truly want a change. You can see it in the news all over with protests.They'll not be easily persuaded by anybody giving a speech no matter how beautiful the speech, not even Abraham Lincoln when they are hungry. It'll stop when they are forced away, the palace is on fire, or demands are met to some degree of satisfaction. Imagine the there was a massive power disruption in the U.S. and it was quoted to take months to fix?

    I can easily imagine TCW going to easy route where Palp's gives is beautiful speech then everyone goes home, sleeps on it, and goes to picket the Jedi temple the next day. I'd rather see him challenged slightly. I mean entire populations are often swayed by a few good words on TCW and that does also happen in real life. But really I imagine a protest l more or less like this:

    [IMG]

    Then being met with lots of these guys as things got more out of hand and things would roll from there:

    [IMG]

    And then Palp can free the captives on good faith and backhandedly praise the Jedi at the same time blaming them for why things are and why they went wrong.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 11, 2013
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  20. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

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    Those crowd control Clone Troopers aren't very effective, since Satine easily out flanked two of them, lol.
    Last edited by Jordan1Kenobi, Feb 11, 2013
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  21. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    LOL, it seems like any clone with red on them is iffy.Certainly won't help.
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  22. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

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    And that's why Fox and his troops were put on guard duty, lol.
  23. Nexumaster Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2005
    star 4
    This has to be one of the most interesting episodes yet and a great one to start off the arc with. I really enjoyed the whole plot centered around the bombing of the Jedi Temple hangar and the subsequent crime investigation, it definitely sucked me into the story or so to say. There was lots of bit and pieces I liked, such as the opening action scene on Cato Nemoidia which was reminiscent of the one in ROTS, the council scenes, the cameo by Cin Drallig, the full-size holographic recording of the incident to help the crime scene investigators, the investigation done by Anakin and Ahsoka in the apartment (and the following chase after the suspect) and of course, the droid Ruso-ISC; it was great how he was a reference to David Caruso's character Horatio Caine from 'CSI: Miami', right down to the glasses, the tone of his voice and the pauses (another thing I liked was his little squad of assistant droids). Also, since I'm quite familiar with the CSI shows, this episode was extra fun for me to watch and I definitely could see and draw some pararells.

    The whole nanodroid angle with the Abyssin worker Jacar having unknowingly been fed nanodroids by his wife Letta to make him into the bomb was rather interesting and pulled off quite well: it did feel quite Star Warsy and didn't take me out of the story. I wonder where they will go from here with Letta now being in custody (it will be interesting to know why she had her husband killed) and the dislike of and the protesting against the war going on and growing. Overall, a great episode with a solid and well-done investigation plot, I'm definitely looking forward to the next part.
    Last edited by Nexumaster, Feb 11, 2013
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  24. LandoThe CapeCalrissian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 3
    I enjoyed this new episode a lot. Ahsoka was great in it. Also liked the crime scene investigator droid...

    Anyone else think itd be so cool to see a scene in the new movie that mimicked a great part of this clone wars episode, In which the room was covered in a hologram of slow motion footage of the explosion. This scene was one of the best of the episode. Analyzing the crime scene with the most high end tech out there.

    doesn't have to be an explosion per se, but somehow integrating that hologram concept into the new movie would be incredibly cool.
  25. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

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    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Trivia had some interesting stuff and explanation for that "No one said he is dead" thing but nothing about the Cato Neimoidia[face_frustrated]