Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.19 - To Catch a Jedi - discussion thread

Why ruin Padme's character by not having her rush to Anakin's side after she heard of the attack on the Temple and ask him if he's all right and that she could see the smoke from her penthouse?

That sounds like Fringe.

 

Nah, not enough parallel universes. Or time paradoxes. Or multiple future timelines.

And no cows.

 

How? By destroying the character she had already in favor of shock value?

 

I'ma have my Discovery Channel shows coming back on as well as Archer. And it'll be time to try to look for something new and catch up on all the SW comics and books recommended to me.

And whoo for drama.

If this arc ends with a cliff hanger its gonna be a super long wait and I can't begin to imagine how many times this forum will go in circles about how it will end and probably just end up talking about Ahsoka's old tube top again. LOL.

 

Aurra is way taller and had those freaky long et fingers.

 

We'll find a way to cope without this show for a few months, won't we?

Oh, and I'm already ahead of you - me and GG were talking about tube top Ahsoka vs. boob hole Ahsoka earlier.

 

I sincerely hope that by "Archer" you meant "Arrow".

 

Am I the only one here who's ambivalent about Barriss seeming to be the culprit in this episode? I'd kind of rather it wasn't her, but I also wouldn't strongly object if it is her. I like getting a new dark Jedi after General Krell, but don't care much one way or the other whether it's Barriss. I see a lot of people assuming that if it's her there will be no reason given and it can't possibly make sense when we haven't seen the actual conclusion yet, and that's unwarranted.

 

Barriss being the culprit will only work though imo if she survives on as a recurring villain. Otherwise, there's no way they can give her proper motivation in the course of a single episode.

Though I'm honestly not so sure anymore than they'll go that route.

 

We are basing our reasoning around previous character interaction and established lore, which allows us to draw conclusions. Nothing is concrete until the next episode airs, but to say that we are being unwarranted smacks of wanting to stamp out dissenting opinion.

 

True enough. I just can't see how they're gonna make this episode work in terms of pacing. There's just so MUCH in it

 

I don't think you are. I'd rather is wasn't but if that's whats going to happen then it is what it is. I don't strongly object and can see how it would work. She may not be so pure and hard to turn to the Dark Side as she seems. Thanks to Luminara and the Jedi's being taught to be unattached it seems likely that Barriss's existence is cold and lonely. She is actually pretty quick to give up and super quick to kill the clones infected with the brain invader worms. I don't think she's going to be much like Krell. I really hope she still has her same mannerisms when she is swinging red lightsabers. The best thing would be if Dark Barriss survived for a while. I'm definitely going to wait and see, then make the call on how much it sucks or rocks in the end.

 

Ehh...I think he's just saying that whichever way you fall on this, it'd be better to give the final episode a chance to air before unloading. I can't really see that as any sort of snub, just a gentle "Wait and see" before getting angry about something that hasn't truly happened. While it's troubling to consider the implications, they're still only implications at this point.


Though I can't say I agree with Tarkas' ambivalent stance. If it turns out Barris is the true, independent-minded perpetrator, I'll be pissed. Not going to lie. If they manage to give some real depth to this change in perspective, I'll be less pissed, but pissed all the same. But for now, I too am taking a wait and see approach. There could, could, be a surprise in store yet.

 

This "cold and barren existance" postulated for Barriss is just so - I shake my head. Detached fondness, perhaps, but lonely, cold, unaffectionate? I just don't (didn't) see it.

 

Isn't that the prequel Jedi's biggest flaw - that they didn't encourage these emotions to be shared with others, that to repress them was wrong? After all, if Anakin had been able to discuss and work through his attachments to his mother, and then to Padme, the Purge would have been avoided.

*Prays that the Sequel trilogy doesn't screw up Luke's Jedi Order allowing those emotions.*

Unfortunately, I don't think this would affect Barriss. From what we've seen (especially if you take the EU into account), she does just fine meditating on the philosophy of the Force etc. She isn't as bogged down at the other Jedi in this era as she doesn't view the Force in such a black-and-white way.

 

Nope, I disagree. Emotional detachment does not = cold and unfeeling. It's accepting and releasing emotions; not letting them control the person. You can grieve, but you don't go gunning for revenge; your feelings might get hurt but you don't retaliate to make them feel as bad; you can get angry but you don't let anger guide you to irrational actions.

 

Except every time we see a Master scold a padawan about emotions, they tell them to control them, and that's that. There's never any working through it, there's no "it's good to have emotions such as love but logic must overcome your emotional reactions in dire situations", it's "emotions lead to the dark side". That's how this era of Jedi have always been portrayed.

Yoda and Obi-Wan even maintain the same stance until Jedi, when Luke shows that listening to ones emotions doesn't necessarily mean that they have to kill all their loved ones.

 

To all you Ahsoka haters out there...............she will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine, she will become a team leader/commander, A Jedi Grand Master, she will become The Jedi Anakin should have been excluding The Chosen One prophecy, she will be the leader of a New Jedi Order, The Grey Jedi and no its not the Grey Jedi Order your probably thinking of, these Jedi will be 100x more powerful.

How do I know all this you say? I have foreseen this, it is inevitable, it is The Will of The Force.

This is why the sun was shining on her in this story, her destiny is bigger than you all of you think. Although, what her haters think is irrelevant in my mind, i have foreseen this, your arguments, all arguments claiming otherwise or hating on her are irrelevant. Its not opinion its fact it not what I think its what I know.

Don't take this statement to personally I just really love her character and I just wanted to cause a stir

 

I rewatched this episode with the elevator thing. When Ahsoka goes to cut herself out. I realized it looks like the elevator had stopped between floors. She cuts her way out, takes the kid, and jumps about half a story to the ground.

 

I like Ahsoka more and more as the seasons pass one into another. Shes becoming a strong Jedi, easy to see her as a Jedi Knight and one day Master.

I thought the same thing about Bariss being the "man(in this case woman) behind the curtains." How and when she turned is something I hope to find out if she is indeed the hidden agent.

 

The ROTS Scene when Sidious says to Anakin "He took away your right arm and you wanted revenge.." slowly gets a whole new meaning.

In that Scene Anakin seems to punish Dooku for something and i think Tyrannus is the one who always searches for new recruits inside of the Order. Maybe he even contacts or influence the young Jedi in the temple through the force? I cant believe Krell was in the Jedi temple so long without influencing/twisting minds of other Jedi. Sidious maybe now means Ahsoka with "He took your arm"? Maybe Lucas Way of changing ROTS without adding any new scene or conversation to it. He just changing the meaning of the words.

 

(pure speculation - I have no knowledge of the finale) - I can only see Barriss being motivated to kill Letta as Letta killed her friend. I can see Barriss being motivated to frame Ahsoka to keep herself from being thrown out of the Jedi Order and imprisoned/executed if Barriss is that attached to the Jedi Order.
I don't see Barriss's motivation for being behind the bombing unless she's working with Letta and Letta turns out to be a secret "Dark Jedi" who faked her own death.

 

There's a lot of convenience.

-Letta turns her husband into an *unwilling* suicide bomber. Yet when she talks about this, she's not like "oh my God, you have to help me, someone coerced me into feeding my husband nanodroids! Instead she talks about how she believes that the Jedi are war mongers and that there was a member within the Jedi Order that agreed with her. She kind of seems more concerned over Jedi philosophy here rather than y'know... turning her husband into a bomb... That seems like one hell of a traumatic experience, yet Letta's really only worried about herself and says that her life is now in danger and that she was told that she could only trust Ahsoka. Why Ahsoka? Presumably Barriss could have told Letta this, but why is Barriss so masochistic to get her friends killed as opposed to any other Jedi?

-Letta is choked. Tarkin wonders why Ahsoka did not sense another presence, if she claims that she didn't do it. If her good friend Barriss was there... indeed why didn't she feel it? With 10,000 some Jedi Order members, I'm sure Ahsoka doesn't know them all. If Joe Blow was the Jedi culprit, maybe she wouldn't be so quick to sense his presence, but this is her good friend. Yet, nothing.

-The military/Palpatine are conveniently overriding Jedi jurisdiction at this time. This is shown with Letta. Ahsoka considers the attack a Jedi matter and something the Jedi should handle, yet Tarkin takes Letta to a separate prison under the authority of the Republic military. When Ahsoka is apprehended, Mace voices concern that hopefully they will be able to keep her detained at the Jedi Temple, implying that he hopes there isn't a repeat of the Letta situation in which the Republic takes Ahsoka and tries her in the Republic courts.

-Barriss tells Ahsoka to contact her using a secured line. If Ahsoka tries to implicate Barriss as being the one to tell her to go to level 1315, there will be no proof that the two talked to one another.

-The attacker (presumably Barriss) frames Asajj as turning on Ahsoka. Replace Dooku for Asajj and Anakin for Ahsoka and it better illustrates how IMO this is a remarkably stupid development. If someone were trying to frame Anakin for attacking the temple, which would be an uphill battle in itself, you do not frame Dooku as being involved too. Dooku WOULD plausibly attack the temple, and so if your goal is to frame Anakin, framing Dooku as well is a distraction that might cause people to DOUBT Anakin's guilt. So Barriss goes to great lengths to implicate Ahsoka, but then turns around and frames Asajj for turning on Ahsoka. If Ahsoka says that she had no knowledge of the plot and know has an incentive to suspect that Asajj did, the courts might be more inclined to believe her than if Asajj WASN'T framed.

-I suppose that in the adrenaline rush of the moment that Ahsoka might not be paying attention to some of the finer details like... the fact that aside from a mask and two sabers Asajj and the attacker looke NOTHING alike. Asajj did not have an outer cloak, her legs were not completely covered, and her robes were different. And I believe there's quite a discrepancy in height.

-What does Barriss have to gain from any of this? She's killing her friends. Is this just a shallow terrorist attack? "Stop being generals, or else!" Is she trying to provoke Tarkin and the military from coming in and removing the Jedi from their positions? That seemed like it was going to happen anyway, why kill your friends and create your own misery? Why frame Ahsoka? You're going to get your friend arrested or killed. If you've fallen so far as to resort to human bombs, you're probably not just a Jedi dissident, but downright insane. Barriss had no knowledge that Asajj was helping Ahsoka. You are walking down an alley and stumble across a known war criminal and enemy of the Republic and you just knock her out, steal her mask and weapons and frame her? Why not just kill her? Why not kill Ahsoka? Ahsoka may not be able to prove that she spoke to Barriss as the communicator could not be traced, but I would still think that if Barriss were guilty of these crimes that she would want NO attention drawn to her, just in case. Especially when you know someone like Anakin is going to stop at nothing until he gets to the bottom of it.

Seems like she could have just killed Ahsoka and disposed of the body. The Republic would never know that Ahsoka was killed and would be perpetually on a wild bantha chase to bring a terrorist to justice and spread fear of the Jedi.

But again, if you want the Republic to fear the Jedi, why attack the Jedi? If a soldier goes insane and kills some of his fellow squad members, I'm not sure that it has the same impact as if that same soldier went out and targeted civilians. If an American soldier rolls a grenade into his squad mates bunk, I'm not sure that has the same impact as if he rolled a grenade into a crowd of civilians or into an encampment with a visiting politician. If a Jedi attacked the senate, then yeah, I'd expect Palpatine and Tarkin to be all over that. But a Jedi attacks the Jedi Temple and it just seems kind of weird that Tarkin and Palpatine are going to suppress Jedi autonomy over an internal Jedi matter just because clones died. Not sure how much Barriss and Tarkin's goals are aligning here.

Seems like it could have just as easily have been Letta, as weird as that would be. But with Filoni's comments I figure it's all but confirmed it's Barriss, but looking at everything piecemeal... whatever her plan is just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless she has become the Joker and is just doing things for the hell of it (please, god no).

With how much ground they have to cover in one more 22 minute episode just with Ahsoka alone, I feel like it's going to be rushed and get an unsatisfactory explanation.

P.S. Don't be Barriss. Make it Letta

 

I think you may be onto something here. A piece of the brainworm remained in her head and drove her insane.

 

As incredibly LAME as that would be, if it turns out to be Barriss, I'll be happy to accept it (while grinding my teeth and shaking my fist). It still wont explain some of what actually took place in the detention area, and her knowing about Assajj etc etc. But at least her character wont be totally destroyed.

This will either be Dave Filoni pulling a Joss Whedon (ala Spike's soul)

OR a Randy Quaid honking the effing horn in Quick Change.