Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.20 - The Wrong Jedi (Season Finale) - discussion thread

Spoiler

I'm sure you guys will enjoy Petro's appearance in this episode since he was the only Youngling to have a line in this episode

 

If you're talking about Cin Drallig, then yes I agree that Filoni could have used him for more than just a cameo... Since we didn't get much of him in ROTS, it could have been a good opportunity to expand on his character. How much of a troll could Cin be?

Filoni take note for Season 6 (Although I know he's the last person to care about development and continuity)!! Hopefully she was away on some mission or something. She would have gone bollocks!

 

I believe there was something said against having three white bald women―Asajj, Aurra Sing, and Sly―all in the series. People might get confused or something...

Barriss is a Mirialan, and the Mirialan culture has its own religion. Jedi have no known constraints on inter-Order spirituality, and judging by the tattoos Barriss wears, it's safe to assume that she's still a strong practitioner of her people's faith.

 

Was she praying out loud?

 

I just realized we'll never hear Ahsoka call Anakin "Master" again

My biggest question is what crowd will Ahsoka run with now? I really don't see her as a mercenary or bounty hunter type, but she's got to make a living now.I know, this belongs in the the "Ahsoka's Fate" thread, but hey, this is fresh info.

 

Any explanation as to how Barriss killed Letta?

 

I want a link to the video >.>
Come on Canada, you've had 6 hours already

 

its called television.

 

Episode won't be on the internet for another 6-7 hours!

 

Spoiler

Barriss will share the fate of the Separatist Leaders Wat Tambor and Poggle - be seen for an arc and then spend 3 seasons off screen until we see a cameo.

 

Thoughts after seeing the episode;

- No last-second twists with the mastermind behind it all, but that's okay.
- Ventress is always good value. You can tell Futterman enjoys voicing her, her scenes with Obi-Wan in the last finale and now Anakin in this one always sound fluid.
- Still have mixed feelings about the Barriss thing. I'm not against her being the well-intentioned extremist who believes herself pushed to violence to achieve something for the greater good, but there were little touches that put her in the Krell School of Moral Ambiguity. She says stuff like "The Republic is failing", "the Jedi are being corrupted" etc, which is all true, but is then mixed with pantomime style villainy; saying "I think they suit me" regarding Ventress' lightsabers for one. We didn't need the latter to tell us that she's on the opposite side of the fence to Anakin.
- Tera Sinube whipping out his silver lightsaber to defend the younglings was nice, was almost wishing we'd see him join in with the fight!
- Was expecting Cin Drallig to pop up when the Jedi guards got involved.
- Nice end to the Anakin-vs-Barriss fight, with the lift-and-slam maneuver.
- Genuinely intrigued to see where Ahsoka will go now.
- I like Tarkin's little look when Barriss is brought to the court; in one shot the animators convey that move from surprise, to calculation, to realisation that it doesn't matter; a Jedi is a Jedi, and it all works out for him anyway.
- I wouldn't be surprised if Barriss ends up being Tambor/Poggle/Other Seppies' ticket out of jail.

 

Spoiler

So does Anakin know that Obi-Wan was the only one who thought Ahsoka innocent? That is the impression I'm getting that he is the only one on the Council who does not agree with the guilty verdict from previews.

 

Okay, I watched it. There's not really much to say.

• Barriss' motivations were interesting enough, though laced with such idiocy as "I think they suit me", as she rips out Ventress' lightsabers. However, I definitely don't think this retcon was necessary, and I say that not as an EU fanboy but as a viewer. Ahsoka and Barriss' past wasn't utilised in this episode to any effect at all. Any Jedi would've been sufficient, I think. No grand betrayal dialogue or look between the two; nothing. Seems needless to me.
• Seeing Tera Sinube teaching the Younglings was very cool; I love continuity. In fact, seeing the exterior of the Temple ziggurat was also great. I think the Barriss and Anakin duel was this episode's best scene. The diversity of the Temple for this scene and the episode in general was great to see.
• I just hope that Barriss doesn't rot in a cell for seasons on end. Also, does she go to jail or is she executed? Because if Barriss is only imprisoned when Ahsoka was up for execution that'd be really cheap and a huge plot convenience.
• The "court" was a farce. I'll let it slide because it's a kids' show, though. Seriously, do prominent Senators, Admirals and the Supreme Chancellor himself attend every court? And no judges present? Perhaps it can be explained as an extraordinary tribunal such as the real world Nuremberg tribunal or the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia.
• The final scene of the episode seems like it could also be a fitting end scene for the show, if the need arises: Ahsoka hints she knows about Padme and Anakin, Ahsoka is out of the picture, Adi, Barriss and Even are also gone, and things are set up as they are in RotS. That being said, I'm glad that Ahsoka doesn't return to her Master's side; any character progression is good character progression.

6 or 7/10 from me. Nothing too special, imho.
Sabotage > The Jedi Who Knew Too Much >The Wrong Jedi > To Catch a Jedi

 

Well...

****.

I don't...

Ouch. That ending. Right in the feels.

I need a few minutes to collect my thoughts. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

 

Ahsoka: "i know "Master"..why do you think i am leaving?"

 

Just saw the episode. It's so frustrating, because I'm very strongly torn here. There was some real good to this episode. The problem falls on the fact that the entire plot still hinges on a twist that, even now seeing it with my own eyes, just doesn't work.

The major issue that I'll get out of the way first is that Barriss is the perpetrator. And like I said, it doesn't work. There is, of course, the canon issue to consider. While Barriss was imprisoned, and thus could very well be redeemed should the show not have further plans to make use of her, it certainly looks like Revenge of the Sith and Evasive Action are well and truly on the chopping block. Considering Luminara is nowhere to be seen at all, however, MedStar might be safe after all, assuming the episode guide doesn't go out of its way to confirm Barriss as a Padawan. Beyond pure canon, there's the character issue. I honestly do not feel as though the character they portrayed was Barriss Offee as she has been and should be. There was such a dramatic divorce between the girl even show-only fans have seen up to this point, with the person that comes out when the switch is flipped when we see her to be the guilty party. It was practically the introduction of a new character that just happened to look like Barriss. Terrible characterization of a once great character.

And finally, everything Barriss had to say for herself just felt...empty. Her actress was giving the lines her all, I felt, but they were essentially meaningless. They were just retreads of things we've all heard time and again, or nonsensical barbs being thrown about at random. The usual bit on how the Republic is corrupt and the Jedi are corrupt for following them, which then somehow led to declarations that the Jedi are responsible for the war all along and that every Jedi should be placed on trial. There were no specifics, no examples for why she felt this way or how she'd come to such epiphany, just empty platitudes and buzzwords.

That said, the Temple Guards were very cool to see in as much action as we were really going to get out of them. They have a very old, ceremonial feel to them, and their robes evoke the Knights of the Old Republic era. The Chamber of Judgement, on the other hand, looked a little too ceremonial, and far too foreboding for a Jedi tribunal; one of the council spires would've done the trick just fine. I enjoyed getting to see the open-air lessons with the younglings, and how immediately protective Sinube became when they were threatened. But Ventress fell into the show's trap of losing most of her powers when she doesn't have a lightsaber, and I'm at a loss for why an actual legal advocate wasn't appointed for Ahsoka beside the requisite need-a-reason-for-Padme business.

The thing that surprisingly really got me was the ending. Almost everything about the ending's two final scenes brought me back to the original finale of Justice League, Shayera's resignation, and her last words with John Stewart. And in a very good way. The music was well-done, the dialogue was touching... Not quite the tear-jerker some made it out to be, not for me anyway, but pretty damn good all the same.

Interestingly, I feel like I've been here before, back at the start of the season. Revival had a lot going for it as an entertaining episode and the start of a great story arc, but was soured by the unnecessary death of Adi Gallia. And now, with The Wrong Jedi, we've got a pretty great closer to the season and another good story arc. But it, too, was soured, this time by the mistake of balancing the entire plot on Barriss as the antagonist. Even with the shallow boilerplate motives she gives, her actions could've been acceptable for Ran-Dom Je'di who'd been designed for this eventual part, but not someone as behaviorally mismatched as Barriss herself. Her relationship with Ahsoka wasn't even capitalized on, leaving me seriously wondering how they got around to deciding she should be the villain. So I suppose while the veneer is very enjoyable, the episode's core proves ultimately rotten.

 

That was a real WTF? moment for me.
Edit: I've been noticing this of late, why is Anakin being referred to as Master Skywalker? Jedi Skywalker or Knight Skywalker are correct. And yes, I know it's really a tiny issue.

 

Well, now that I've had a few minutes to collect my thoughts.

Alright, so I had a feeling they were going to try fitting too much into this episode, and I was right, though that's not necessarily a negative. This episode and this arc had a definite ending, but it also leaves enough unanswered questions so as to keep interest in what comes next high. Ahsoka's future, Barriss' future, and Anakin's waning patience with the Council and the Order, as well as Ventress' future are all highlights I am very excited to see expanded on.

First off, Ventress. Always a delight, but I really like how she sticks up for Ahsoka here. Ventress has consistently shown a penchant for more and more empathy as her character has evolved, and her making a connection to Ahsoka, an almost sisterly one is very poignant. Ventress is no doubt feeling lonely with her kin slaughtered, and having someone she can empathize with in Ahsoka, someone who has been cast aside the moment she was no longer useful seems to has been galvanized by Ventress' own loss in a believable way. I want to see her relationship with Ahsoka continue to evolve from here, I think they could have a really cool sisterly or even frenemy dynamic going forward, with both of them walking away from their own lives after making peace with it.

Next up, Anakin. Holy hell he was a powerhouse in this episode. This is the Anakin I always pictured before the Prequels came out. A good friend and a good man, and it shines here. He stands by Ahsoka through it all, and seeing the pain on his face when she leaves is heartwrenching. You can see the anger and the outrage, and the pain too, and it works. I feel genuinely bad for him at this point. The hint that Ahsoka knows about him and Padme was cool, too. The raw rage he brought to the fight with Barriss, his anger with Ventress, all offset by his protectiveness and loyalty to Ahsoka gave him a lot of range this episode, and he hit all the right notes.

Barriss. Man, where to begin with her... It's no secret at this point I love Barriss, and I really love her relationship with Ahsoka. They are mirror opposites of one another in every regard, and it continues to show here. Where Barriss resorts to terrorism and outburst to make her point, Ahsoka, ironically, is the one to quietly walk away. Both have left the Order, but in different manners, and it's nice that as their characters grow, they continue to do so in opposite manners. Some no doubt dislike the idea of Barriss doing all of this, but I think the old saying, "It's always the quiet ones" holds up here. Now, I'm certainly not happy with how rushed Barriss was in this episode. Her motives made sense enough, I get the sense she really WAS trying to break Ahsoka out to help her, and the reason she attacked her as Ventress was to put suspicions on Asajj. That's all well and good, and I can even buy Barriss having come to hate the Order and what it's become, but the issue I have with this episode is how pointless making it Barriss was. It could have been any Jedi and it would not have mattered as it stands in this Episode. Her relationship with Ahsoka was not capitalized on, the betrayal, none of it. Barriss just throws 'trust' out the window and her and Ahsoka are given no reconciliation, not confrontation, just Barriss' indignation and Ahsoka's shock and pain. As for the line about her saying the sabers suited her, that could be taken any number of ways. Maybe it's foreshadow that she will be taking Ventress' place as Dooku's apprentice. Maybe she meant it in a self deprecating manner. Barriss clearly seems to hate herself as much as the order, she believes they all, herself included, need to be put on trial. I don't know, and that the answers weren't given annoys me.

However, I am willing to forgive this lack of resolution between Ahsoka and Barriss and the changes in Barriss' character. As I said before, I knew this episode would not be long enough to do it justice. With Barriss alive, it's clear she'll be returning, and I get the feeling her and Ahsoka will be crossing paths again. Provided they have an episode or even an arc planned regarding these two, then I think it was smart to save all the confrontation and what not for then. So until that happens or the series ends, I'll reserve judgement. Hopefully, we'll get get Barriss breaking out of prison and Ahsoka teaming up with Luminara (as she has in the past) and they can spend some time on figuring out how Barriss got to this point and if she can be saved. Again, provided they devote time to Barriss later, I can forgive the lack of resolution in this current arc as this one was clearly about Ahsoka.

Overall? Easily one of my favorite arcs in the series, and this was an amazing episode. It's part evolution of Ahsoka and Anakin's characters (as well as Barriss' and Ventress'), and clearly part set up for many new, amazing, character based development to come. I can't wait to see what comes next.

 

Sifo-Dyas or whatever his name was DID create the clones, and it WAS the Jedi who attacked the Separatists on Geonosis which began the war. So from a certain point of view, she's correct, the Jedi did start the war.

 

The protocol has always been that a Knight currently training a Padawan is referred to as 'Master ____' by everyone, as a courtesy, as training a Padawan to Knighthood is the prime stepping stone to becoming an actual Jedi Master. Same reason Obi-Wan is called Master Kenobi throughout AOTC.

 

The same Sifo-Dyas who was manipulated by the Order of Sith Lords, and the Jedi attacked the militant Separatists because they were amassing weapons to wage war against the Republic.

I totally forgot Ahsoka was his Padawan.

 

Well I thought that Barriss' confession was one of the best moments of the show ever.

 

I don't like it either. They could have devoted more time to this, but it would have been hard. It already felt like there was too much going on in this episode. Again, the hope is that Barriss will get her due and her reasoning, her beliefs, how she obtained them, and where she is going gets expanded on.

 

The voice acting behind it was superb. I like how it starts with her quietly and almost shyly saying "I did it," and by the end she's almost raving. And while I don't disagree with Barriss' beliefs, I wish there had been time for her to give them actual backing.

 

The voice acting in the show only continues to get better and better (with the sad exception of Ian Abercrombie's absence; I'm sure Tim Curry will do great, but Abercrombie was the boss), it's just a shame that the substance behind it was a little shaky.