TCW Episode The Clone Wars - 5.20 - The Wrong Jedi (Season Finale) - discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Admiral Zaarin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    That´s why I think Barriss was not acting alone... Tarkin was involved in this conspiracy
  2. phatdude1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 4
    I think it's like any "relationship". They spent years together, they knew each other well. There was not much more to say. I also think a hug would have given Anakin that false hope she would be back. She got her point across by saying why she was leaving.

    I'm with you on the emotional point of view. It was a HARD scene to watch, but it should leave you hopeful. Even the intro message was:
    • Never give up hope, no matter how dark things seem.

    We KNOW Anakin's fate, it's good to see Ahsoka LEAVING that situation. Before when I would watch her walking down the stairs I was heart broken, leaving (her father figure/big brother Anakin) behind. BUT NOW (even though still sad) I feel HAPPY for her.

    Think about it: Ahsoka walking down the temple stairs is for a better life. Better than the fate which is LEFT BEHIND for the Jedi that stay. Ahsoka was the smart one. Smarter than the entire council. When I see her leave, I realize she is escaping! And she's going to be a better person for it. The Jedi were in their final hours. I'm glad Ahsoka got out.
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  3. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    I still think Tarkin was just doing what he thought was right in his eyes. I don't believe he knew about Barriss or anything like that. He just despises the Jedi and their unorthodox ways. Now their perfect Order has turned on itself and he has an opportunity to punish them for that. He takes it.
  4. leiamoody Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2005
    star 4
    Irrelevant question inspired by the "Padme Perry Mason" story angle: What kind of legal counsel would a Jedi have when they are accused of a crime? I was talking about this with someone who is a casual SW fan and watched the episode. They were a little bit thrown that Padme would be Ahsoka's "lawyer".
  5. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Some of you are so darn quick to jump on the Council but you're using hindsight and OOU viewpoints. Of course they were imperfect and in many respects blew it with Ahsoka.

    But (apparently) the evidence was overwhelming and you just cannot support/find innocent someone based on knowing them and/or trusting them.

    Their error here was not communicating better with Ahsoka, although telling her "we believe you, but we have to go by the evidence" is also a bit iffy if they can do so - probably can, since they weren't the ones trying here. Many have made a case for them not standing up to the Republic military, but I'm not sure they really had any choice here.

    (To be sure, I think the plot demanded they be portrayed as they were in order to build up Ahsoka's plotline).

    There was so much in-story stuff missing: what was the evidence - what about the silent tapes? Were all the guards dead or what was the story of the stunned ones?

    Sure, pacing and time issues affected the story they could and did tell, but some of that missing information I believe is crucial to avoid painting the "moronic behavior" issues plaguing this episode if you look closely at it.

    Yes, the Council definitely could have handled it better. But not perfectly. They were caught in a no win/no win situation.

    As for Plo Koon: I'm not sure how a Jedi finding and bringing a youngling to the Temple is supposed to automatically make them close and/or make him go hunting for evidence to exonerate her. It has been shown that these two were close, though, and he was reluctant to believe. So if he thought the evidence did point to her, it seems a lot of posters are dismissive of his reasons.

    It would be like Obi-Wan after seeing the visual evidence of Anakin/Vader killing Jedi, saying: "Nope; I don't believe the evidence and I must go look for who faked this."


    Ultimately, the biggest failing of TCW is those stories where they twist characterizations or levels of intelligence/compassion in order to serve a plot. I'm sure it's not just TCW, and it's not always, but plots have to constructed on plausibility if you want them to work upon analyzation.
  6. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    The only reason Obi-Wan believed that hologram was because Yoda confirmed that it was Anakin who killed the younglings and gone to the dark side.
  7. BW2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2013
    star 2
    Plo Koon is a true Jedi Master. He cant show attachement. But i sensed how he was heartbroken under his mask.

    I like the idea that she will go the path of "Ashoka the great", an ancient Indian ruler which decided to lay down the weapons.
  8. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    From what do you get that? Obi-Wan was verbally denying, but he knew the truth. IMHO.
  9. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    Emotional response is right on. I mostly sporadically tune into the show just for a quick action fix, but man, that ending hit me in a manner that really transcended a 20 minute cartoon. Great characterization moment when Anakin appears taken aback after Ahsoka acknowledges she already knows about his conflicted sense of belonging in the order. Very appropriate visual for her walking away as well--the cloudy (but not gloomy) sky with sunlight leaking through called back to the scene in Attack of the Clones where Anakin admits that Padme is a calming presence in his life. So too was Ahsoka such a positive influence, and after that last moment of seeing her passes Anakin will be a step closer to feeling irrevocably abandoned by the order himself. Great stuff. If there's another season, I'll finally be a full-time viewer of this show.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  10. Kal La Kai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    You are absolutely right. I think now I can look back at the situation and feel happy for Ahsoka as well. When Mace Windu tells her, "You have become a greater Jedi now than you would have otherwise," I thought he was just blowing smoke up her butt, but there was truth in his words. If she chose to stay with the Order, she would have been a better Jedi. However if she chose to leave, she still would be a better Jedi because she has the knowledge that the Order is distrustful, therefore leaving them makes her a better Jedi too.
    phatdude1138 likes this.
  11. pronker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    It would not have been, no, except that they were each in deep battle mode, bent on each other's destruction, and for Anakin, containment. Speaking of which, Barriss gave a little look behind her like UHOH right before this scene and it seemed like there was an impalement upcoming on some plant or thornbush, but no.
  12. Kal La Kai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Yes, seeing the hurt on Anakin's face was hard to watch. After doing everything he could to save his padawan and prove her innocence, he still ended up losing her. Even though he understand why she needed to leave, it doesn't make it any easier for him. Though Ahsoka is the true victim in this situation, I still feel equally as bad for Anakin. If I had a student whom I taught for a few years and eventually developed a sibling-like relationship with them, it would be very hard emotionally to let them go. Especially after essentially saving their life.
    MandyAhsokaTano and Valairy Scot like this.
  13. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Whoa Filoni watch your wording. "Kevin Keiner flew out to use the full orchestra for these final episodes." Just watched the commentary and its got some interesting stuff in it although I'm not sure I believe Ahsoka is exactly like Anakin, not by a long shot. She can let go and walk away. That's something I'm not sure Anakin knows how to do unfortunately for the future. On a positive note originally Ahsoka would have been let back in and everything would have gone back to normal. However they decided to go with this ending. Its definitely a sign the show wants to go on and change some direction. Interesting that GL was in the Ahsoka must die camp and not surprising that's something DF may have stood up to him about.

    It also seems like DF has been wanting to do the fade out ending for a while and if he had been allowed to would have used it multiple times earlier so now it seems like the fade out ending to this episode wasn't really anything special at all. It was just something DF wanted to do for a while and finally did this episode. Its likely something that'll get as old in the future as red, white, and blue TCW title cards.

    As for Palp wanting Ahsoka found guilty. Maybe that's how the wheels were turning. I don't think Palp really had any knowledge of what Barriss was doing and prefer it that way. After the fact he's stacking his deck just like he did when he spared Maul. Who is to know what the yellow eyes were meant to mean when Barriss and Palp has their half second stare down. I think it was kinda like a rattlesnake watching a mouse after its poisened. Prey is in his sights, he'll collect it later. If rattlesnake could be a diabolical mastermind that is.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 3, 2013
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  14. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    TBH in the past I always saw palpatine as the iron fist ruler with his incredible devious mind. But after Lawless, I am now afraid of him :)
  15. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Err... what?

    Of course they're warmongers. That's how they ended up fighting a war. If they were doing their job as peacekeepers, then instead of "Begun, the Clone War has", it would have been "Stop this Clone War before any farther it goes, we must". And of course they're fighting for the Dark Side. They're fighting to solidify Palpatine's grip on power so that it will be decades before anyone can put up any effective resistance against him. And if they don't know that that's what they're doing, it's because they thought with their lightsabers instead of their brains. In their arrogance, they charged in fighting instead of pulling back, asking questions, and doing everything they could to keep the peace - which is what they're supposed to do.

    Obi-wan's words at the beginning of his duel with Anakin show everything that's wrong with the Jedi at that point. No, Kenobi, the Jedi are not there to serve the Republic, or democracy. They're there to serve the Force. Forgetting that gave Palpatine the opportunity that the Sith had been looking for since Darth Bane. If the Jedi came to serve the Republic, then all that Palpatine had to do was to become the Republic, and they would serve him. And they did serve him - right up to their own destruction.
  16. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Nothing scarier than a mastermind who knows how to restack the deck to put the aces in an even better spot everytime the cards get knocked out of order.
  17. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    It's easy for people to lose sight of the fact that in reality, there is no difference between the "Republic" and the "Separatists" in this war. Both sides are serving Palpatine's design.
    V-2 likes this.
  18. Darth_Zidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    This was a military tribunal, not a typical court proceeding. Things were complicated because the bomb was set off in the Jedi Temple, but clones were also killed.
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  19. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    And that truly shows that sidious is a plotting genius
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  20. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

    Game Host
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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I just watched the last three episodes of season five, and wow that was a heart beating hour of TCW, three great episodes with a shocking ending, I mean Barriss Offee!? I started to think it was her during To Catch a Jedi, but wasn't she supposed to be in the Battle of Felucia during Order 66? Anyway, that was a great season finale!

    The Jedi Who Knew Too Much
    - Felt like a very dark episode and just reminded me of Order 66, especially when the Clones were surrounding Ahsoka with their guns aimed at her.
    - One thing I didn't get at all was Captain Rex saying to his troops that Anakin ordered Ahsoka to be killed because she's armed and killed three Clones, I mean I thought Rex could've trusted her, but now I think that Rex will execute Order 66.
    - Seeing Wat Tambor, Poggle The Lesser and Whorm Loathsom on the screen in the prison were really good cameos, made me laugh a bit seeing them just walking backwards and forwards in their cells still.
    - Commander Fox getting a bigger role was cool.
    - The scene with Ahsoka running away and escaping from all of those Clones was awesome.
    Overall great episode - 8.5/10

    To Catch a Jedi
    - The Ahsoka and Ventress team up was pretty cool, especially when they fought Wolffe and the other Clones.
    - When I saw that Plo Koon had been chosen to find Ahsoka and Wolffe was with him, I thought oh no... Because of all the things everyone had been saying here about that.
    - The Ahsoka vs. Barriss duel was great, Barriss seemed much more stronger than the last time they fought each other, so it looks like the dark side had made her stronger.
    Overall great episode - 8.5/10

    The Wrong Jedi
    - It was a shock that Barriss was the one behind it all, I would've never thought that it would be her at the start of the arc.
    - Anakin vs. Barriss, wow that was an awesome duel.
    - Seeing the Younglings again was great.
    - Coleman Kcaj on the Jedi Council, brilliant! Now let's give him a bigger role.
    - The Jedi Temple Guards were really cool, I would've loved to see Barriss fight a couple of them.
    - Tarkin annoyed me, because all he wanted to do was make Ahsoka look guilty.
    - I was so relieved when Anakin proved Ahsoka's innocence just in time.
    - The final scene was sad, and I wish she'd stayed and accepted the role of Jedi Knight, but I wonder if this means she won't be in TCW anymore and this was just a way to get rid of her on the show without killing her.
    Overall great episode - 9/10
    Last edited by Jordan1Kenobi, Mar 3, 2013
  21. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    It was all very Imperial how the tribunal proceeded and it seemed things like lawyers and a jury just got tossed out. I'm a bit of a n00b so I'm not entirely sure that's how ordinary trials would proceed in the Republic anyways. I think ordinarily if a Jedi committed a crime, lets say one got arrested for animal cruelty for kicking on of those ugly Tookas things, the Jedi would deal with it internally. However in this case the military got involved because the bombing also killed citizens and clones. The Jedi decided to go with good PR and hand Ahsoka over for the Senate and Military to do whatever they wanted.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 3, 2013
  22. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    And that's got Palpatine's fingerprints all over it. He's behind all of it IMO, as a way to push Anakin. That's why they targeted her in the first place. Barriss didn't have to set up Tano, she could have set up anyone. Someone put her up to that.
  23. Zer0 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I'm still very curious how Barris got so strong, she took Anakin on without too much problem for awhile, which is very impressive.
    Anzeroth2112 likes this.
  24. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

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    star 6
    I was thinking that the dark side made her stronger.
  25. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    I think the only logical reasoning for this is a combination of meticulous training and fully embracing the Dark Side; hence, why she Force-Choked Letta and murdered all those clones. Once the bomb went off, she clearly went past that Moral Event Horizon, and realized that there was no turning back.

    I have to wonder though, if there were any other collaborators, another Dark Jedi, perhaps, who helped teach her Jar'Kai and other aggressive lightsaber forms?