The Clone Wars cancelled.

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Kuestmaster, Mar 11, 2013.

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  1. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Well said as usual, @anakinfansince1983 . I'm 38... I saw ANH in '77 when I was three, grew up with the OT, and loved the PT. I am a fan of the Saga. There is not actually any hard data to say that I am definitely in the minority for my age group, or amongst all SW fans in general.

    Nowadays, it seems to be hip to say that you hate the PT. Even paid movie critics who gave the PT movies good reviews back then say it now.
  2. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    So, is all the hate that Michael Bay's Transformers movies get merely a result of it being hip to hate on them?
  3. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I'm curious as to what kinds of returns TCW saw in profit. The 3D animation was the best of any kind I've ever seen in a television show. I mean, I think Green Lantern followed TCW in the lineup, and if you ever watch that show you see a sharp decline in quality from what TCW did. But that still costs money, and while some had kept posting ratings for this season showing that they were marginally better than last year's, I'm less curious about ratings, since the show could have done better this season yet still might have been hemorrhaging money.

    Lucas, when it comes to things like Red Tails, sometimes seems to be reckless with his money in that he's even willing to pay out of pocket and take a gamble on some of these huge projects. That's admirable in a way, yet doesn't seem like the best business practice at time. I wouldn't be surprised if he was continuing to push the show even if it was only marginally profitable, just because he wanted to see it out there.

    There are shows that must cost far less money that still do better and thus see much wider profit margins. I wouldn't be surprised if Kathleen Kennedy got in there and shut it down for that reason.

    Not necessarily because the ratings were terrible, but because the show just cost too damn much and not enough people were watching it to make it worth it.
  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I dunno, plenty of my friends did not like the PT even when it came out. I highly enjoyed the PT and in fact, historically I've been involved in 2NS, 3NS and PT far, far more than the OT - mostly because there was new stuff to discuss. But they haven't aged well for me. I can still throw in my OT discs when I need a pickup, but I find myself skipping many scenes in the PT, usually involving Jar-Jar, Padme or Anakin.
  5. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I'm not sure why there has to be a giant chasm between "prequels" and "originals"

    If I HAD to pick them based on those labels, I'd choose originals. But if I had to list all the movies out individually, it'd be more like

    ESB > ROTS > ANH > ROTJ > TPM > AOTC

    A prequel is one of my favortes. But "THE prequels" I like less than "THE originals."

    It's an arbitrary boundary, and just because I like the originals more collectively, doesn't mean I hate the prequels.
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  6. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    This just the natural consequence of making the trilogies so far apart. They're too different in tech and cinematography to truly feel connected as one, "saga."
  7. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I'd hate to rank the movies as they're different and all good. Some are lighter than others. I probably like ROTS the most, but it's a bit of a downer and doesn't get as much viewing as TPM does. I find parts of ESB as boring/dragging as I find some scenes annoying in TPM and AoTC. I haven't seen ROTJ in a long time, but I've always liked it and have never minded the Ewoks. I was a bit "meh" on ESB when I walked out of the theater (possibly due to expectations, possibly not).

    If I ranked the movies it'd be mixed OT and PT because to me they're the Saga. All Star Wars movies. And I dislike that so many feel it necessary to treat part of the Saga like an unliked stepchild which has no business being part of the "family." I don't care if some folks like the OT more than PT and vice versa. I don't care if most do.

    I do care when one set of fans insists on imposing their viewpoints as the "majority viewpoint" into every SW conversation because as the internet and politics have "taught us" - repeat something often enough and it becomes defacto "truth." The only way to prevent that is to speak up.
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  8. Master_Gallia Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 2
    It became fashionable to hate the PT shortly after it became fashionable to make Jar Jar jokes. Before that (and contrary to internet wisdom) people where going to see TPM 2 and 3 times. People don't typically do that for a movie that is hated and universally bad.

    I remember seeing ROTJ in the theaters and had no idea that it was considered the "worse" of the OT until after TPM. Guess how much I care, then and now.

    Exactly!

    Likewise there are younger fans who saw and enjoyed the PT. They didn't experience the culture that came with finding out Darth Vader was Luke's father and NEVER WILL no matter how you show the movies. But they do enjoy the movies and "got hooked" via the PT.

    To back away from that, even as a business move, would be very, very stupid.
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  9. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Yes, yes... Many people went to see TPM many times. Many of them were trying to wrap their heads around the FACT (yes, fact) that there could be a Star Wars movie that wasn't good.
  10. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    And it's not just critics, I have friends who walked out of the theater elated at the PT who later picked up the company line and trash them relentlessly. Like Val (I think) said, I had to avoid the subject to not get into an argument.
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  11. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I wouldn't say there's a "decline" in quality between TCW and Green Lantern, since Lantern was a specific stylistic choice intended to replicate the animation style of the many DCAU series rendered in 3D format. TCW was attempting―or has been recently attempting―to emulate the photorealistic style of the movies while using more simplified, stylized rendering. It's not so much a decline, as each individual series hitting their intended style goal.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    A couple of questions for you:

    1. How can an opinion on a movie ever be considered a "fact"? It's not a math problem. Serious question--I've asked it several times and never gotten an answer, and this statement always comes up.

    I don't really care what people think of the prequels or any other movie, but I don't like it when people state that an opinion on a work of art can be "wrong." It implies some sort of taste superiority or that a person can make him or herself artistically superior by having the "right" opinion.

    FWIW, this applies to any work of art, including the so-called "classics." A person could turn in the same paper on a literature-related subject (such as "Why were Romeo and Juliet such schmucks?") to two different English professors and receive two different grades. That's why I took as few of those type classes as possible even though I'm a librarian and I love books; I prefer to let people read/watch what they want as opposed to promoting certain works above others. I'm not going to view a kid who likes to read Jules Verne as somehow superior to the kid who likes to read Captain Underpants and the Revenge of the Revolting Roboboxers*; I'm just happy they're reading.

    2. Why in the hell would anyone see a movie they didn't like, more than once? I can't wrap my brain around that one, unless they went to see it a second time for the sole purpose of MSTing it and thought it was worth another $10 plus popcorn to do so (in which case they have more disposable income than I do). Seems a bit masochistic otherwise, it's not like the movie becomes different the second time around. It's the same damn movie, either you liked it or you didn't. I got enough spoilers for ROTS to know that I was not going to pay full price to see that craptastic movie ever. And I didn't; I saw it in the $1.50 theater three months after it premiered.

    *Yes, this is a real book.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 15, 2013
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  13. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Dare I admit I watched Moulin Rouge a second time to see if it was really as bad as I thought the first time? And guess what - it's one of my favorite films; I clearly was not in the right mood to see it the first time. Granted, it was on DVD both times, not in the theater.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I actually remember someone posting on the IGN boards that he had seen TPM 40 times and all he could was rant about how bad it was.

    I haven't seen it 40 times and I liked it.
  15. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Well, I'll ignore your first "point" since its the typical HERP DERP THAT'S JUST UR OPINION, MAN" nonsense in lieu of an actual point.

    As for the other, I thought that had been explained. People found it hard to believe that TPM was so bad because it was Star Wars. So, they tried it again and again to see if they'd warm up to it. I mean, at the time a bad Star Wars movie was a difficult thing to accept.

    Also, I love how no one has addressed my excellent point about Michael Bay.
    Last edited by Heero_Yuy, Mar 15, 2013
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "That's just your opinion" is an actual point.

    I was looking for some sort of objective mathematical or scientific criteria that would support your statement that taste in film could be boiled down to objective fact in which one either "knew" the "correct" facts or did not.

    So what exactly is this criteria? If you are so certain that your personal taste in film constitutes objective fact, you certainly have scientifically tested criteria to back that up.

    A lot of people who post this sort of thing are just trolling, but you don't strike me as a troll, so I don't understand why you don't want to have a conversation about it.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Mar 15, 2013
  17. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Sorry, haven't seen those movies so I am not in a position to comment if you made an "excellent point" or not. Maybe that holds true for others as well.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I haven't seen Bay's Transformers films either. I have no idea why people hate on them and don't really care.
  19. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Are you familiar with Bay's other movies? That should be enough information. :p
  20. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Wasn't The Island one of Bay's? If so, it had Ewan McGregor and that's good enough to make it a good enough movie for me! :p And I've not seen any of his other movies.
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  21. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    Good ol' TPM. Easily my least favorite of the six. But I like it. Enough to see it twice in 3D.

    I think it has more to do with the second and third one stunk.

    See, I thought The Island was awful. Transformers and The Rock were good, though.
  22. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    The great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts".

    That the prequels are better than a lot of people give them credit for is an opinion. You're entitled to it.

    That the prequels are generally thought of as good films is just coming up with your own facts.
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Mar 15, 2013
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  23. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah, what Naru said. I love the Prequels, but I would be lying if I said they were well received by many.
  24. Seerow SWTV★Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    TPM and ROTS are two of my favorites. And I'm a different kinda example of a Star Wars fan. Honestly the PT were movies I thought of as pretty average popcorn movies until I rewatched them a few months ago (I didn't used to own any of them on DVD or Cassette and had only seen each like once) and except for maybe AOTC the other two PT movies are some of the better popcorn type flicks out there. They are the same kind of fun Independence Day is to watch and just maybe with a little more depth. And... I like the first Michael Bay Transformers Movies. Come on, who wasn't trying to put themselves behind Sam's eyes looking at the scale of Optimus in the scene where he first transforms? But the sequels suck ass. Could "Revenge of the Fallen" go a single line without some lame ass balls joke?

    I really don't think Disney intends to completely bury the PT. I'm actually pretty sure a major motive behind TCW's cancellation is simply Disney does not like to share. I think Cartoon Network may actually shoulder a little blame but naturally I can't prove that so go ahead and call me insane for that opinion. I think the reality is Disney intends to make as many dime a dozen popcorn flicks as they do with the Marvel movies. Yeah some of those like Avengers and even Captain America are fun to watch, same as the first Bayformers movie is. However I'm not sure if they'll carry as much nostalgia in 20 years as the PT will. While Disney's main focus is not the ST they will mine the rest over time. I think for Disney that'll include character based movies. If you do a Yoda movie I imagine you want to either set it somewhere before the PT or during it. If your gonna make a Boba Fett movie its probably coolest to do it during the Dark Times.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 15, 2013
  25. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    What makes T.S. Elliot's Love Song Of J Alfrerd Prufrock better than Dr Seuss? Or what makes Mompou or Satie better than Vanilla Ice?





    I suppose it is indeed a matter of taste. Why do some films win academy awards and other don't? What makes a good actor? What makes a good screenplay? What makes a good director? We could actually objectively answer the last three questions. What made Tarkovskiy so good at cinematography? Is it all a mystery?
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