Clone Wars The Clone Wars Chronological Order (TCW Episodes & Viewing Order)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by han_solo_321, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

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    May 18, 2002
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    you guys are the real heroes. =D=
  2. novajoe23 Jedi Knight

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    May 6, 2006
    star 1
    Oh, no. Ok, get ready, cause this is gonna be heavy. Defenders of Peace is in the Hostage Crisis newsreel, which means Jedi Crash and DOP are before HC. Storm over Ryloth is in the JC newsreel, so the Ryloth trilogy has to be before JC, DOP, and HC. Rookies is in the SOR newsreel, so Rookies has to take place before the Ryloth trilogy, JC, DOP, and HC. Finally, Cargo of Doom is in the Rookies newsreel, which means Holocron Heist and Cargo of Doom have to be before Rookies, the Ryloth trilogy, Jedi Crash, Defenders of Peace, and Hostage Crisis.

    So, basically this means that the webcomics, which suggest that HH and COD are after HC, contradict the newsreel order. But, looking at the production order, Cargo of Doom would have been that early in the order of episodes anyway.

    Thoughts? Is there any room for error in the webcomics that lets HC be this far after HH and COD?
  3. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
    When you're trying to work out the episode order, does it really matter if shots from one episode are in the newsreel sequence in another? Does that actually affect the order of the episodes? Are the newsreels supposed to be in-universe sequences that people in the SW galaxy could actually watch, or are they just for the benefit of the OOU viewer like the introductory text of the films? The intention could be both, yet even if they are in-universe, surely a GFFA viewer couldn't actually watch those episode clips in a newsreel because there was no one there filming it.

    If the whole of Star Wars happened a long time ago then you could say that the stories and their visual representations were written and compiled much later. It would therefore be possible to take elements of one event and put it in the story (like in the newsreel) or another event, even if they haven't happened yet. From the perspective of the viewer on Earth, everything in SW has already happened so it wouldn't matter what bits are in which episode if it's purely illustrative of characters or general action, only if it actually did give the incorrect impression that one event occurred before or after another. Does the footage do that, or is it just all mixed up like in a trailer where it doesn't matter?
  4. novajoe23 Jedi Knight

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    May 6, 2006
    star 1
    Well, we kind of came up with it as a theory as to how one might be able to construct the actual chronological order of the episodes. It's never been confirmed by anyone with the show, but it's probably the best we've got right now, as the production order doesn't really match up and we can tell that the airing order is certainly not chronological.
  5. novajoe23 Jedi Knight

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    May 6, 2006
    star 1
    After watching Children of the Force, it certainly seems like this trilogy of episodes is supposed to be after Hostage Crisis, which means I have no idea what's going on with the newsreel order. It might be truly dead...
  6. Pabawan LFL Author & Artist

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    "Well, we kind of came up with it as a theory as to how one might be able to construct the actual chronological order of the episodes. "

    I hate to tell you, but the newsreels really have no bearing on the chronological placement of the episode. They're often made of available footage unless the content specifically calls for new scenes to be created.

    The chronological roll out of episodes largely follows broadcast order, with a few exceptions. When future episodes really start moving about the timeline, we'll make an official order available on starwars.com.

    ph
  7. Asharak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 4
    Except for episodes like "Downfall of a droid" and "Dual of the droids" that are obviously before "Malevolence" and "Rookies" in the timeline(Grievous being at large vs. having been beaten twice already)and "Hostage Crisis" being after the "Holocron trilogy", the broadcast order definitely is the most sensible.
  8. novajoe23 Jedi Knight

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    May 6, 2006
    star 1
    Right. But I'm not even sure that Hostage Crisis is before the "holocron trilogy." But that's probably the only episode that might not be in the airing order besides the ones you mentioned.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    The newsreel Order theory seems to be dead, alas- unless we ignore the use of COD's brief shot (which could have happened earlier than the rest of the show) in the Rookies newsreel. But I won't argue with Pablo on it. Oh well. Thanks for the update, Pablo :). Was wondering where the official episode order Dave had hinted at last season was gonna pop up.

    So it looks like the order that factors in the webcomics is the most accurate presently- it establishes that HC is before HH/COD/COTF. Going by Pabs' comment, they should favor a post-season 1 placement, not mid-season 1.

    The only wildcards are a couple episodes like Rookies where they may have been aired earlier than originally intended. (I really hope the official episode order released eventually has it placed later than the airing order and closer to the production order- it condenses the timeline by a few weeks and avoids bloating the CW timeline unecessarily.)



    So, factoing in the webcomics, and still factoring in production order #'s to a certain degree, this is my estimatation of where we're at:

    -201: The Hidden Enemy
    -118/TCW: The New Padawan
    -101/TCW: Castle of Doom
    -103/TCW: Castle of Deception
    -104/TCW: Castle of Salvation
    -102: Downfall of a Droid
    -106: Duel of the Droids
    -108: Ambush
    -107: Rising Malevolence
    -109: Shadow of Malevolence
    -111: Destroy Malevolence
    -105: Bombad Jedi
    -110: Cloak of Darkness
    -112: Lair of Grievous
    -114: Rookies
    -116: Dooku Captured
    -120: The Gungan General
    -115: Storm Over Ryloth
    -117: Innocents of Ryloth
    -119: Liberty on Ryloth
    -122: Jedi Crash
    -124: Defenders of Peace
    -125: Trespass
    -126: Blue Shadow Virus
    -202: Mystery of a Thousand Moons
    -204: Hostage Crisis
    -123: Holocron Heist
    -113: Cargo of Doom
    -203: Children of the Force
  10. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Regardless of what Lucasfilm says, we'll still use the newsreel as a guideline in determining the order, especially the average viewer who don't come to these boards to find these things out.

    Will the dvd box set have these episodes in chronological order?
  11. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    This is either gnna be really awesome to really crazy. Pablo, are they planning to go back in the timeline or forward? Is there a specific story reason they are doing this or were they just bored doing it like it is?

    Personally I think it would be really weird if they jumped ahead too far. There's plenty of time to get to all the stuff right before episode 3 anyway.
  12. Asharak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 4
    "Regardless of what Lucasfilm says, we'll still use the newsreel as a guideline in determining the order, especially the average viewer who don't come to these boards to find these things out."

    Dude, the average viewer will assume the episodes are shown in chronological order, no way in hell "normal" people will study the "newsreel" to triangulate a possible timeline(if the idea even occurs to them). Doesn?t invalidate your version of the timeline though, but that is way to much work for most people to bother.
  13. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Well, after seeing the hidden enemy and the movie that came out way before the show, they'll realize that the stories bounce around between AOTC and ROTS, I would think. I did. I mean, some of the scenes in the newsreels that depict what happened before are pretty obvious, hence the reason why these guys started this topic in the first place. It's not like it matters anyway. Lucasfilm will continue to make these shows, and who's to say if they won't make more that take place before or after the previous ones. I don't see a problem with this and don't see why we should go by their airdates, especially since they don't appear to be in order visually.
  14. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    Why shouldn't we go by their airdates, just to waste some of our time, or because we always want something to complain about. Please, tell me. There has been, aside from Hidden Enemy, no indication whatsoever that the episodes could not be in chronological order. Does it really matter wether or not Rookies was before Ryloth, or before Ambush, or maybe even after the upcoming Geonosis arc? As Mace Windu would say: "I don't think so".
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    star 10
    It'll probably reflect the airing order, with perhaps minor tweakings (moving Droid Duo before Malevolence Trilgoy, etc). Even moving The Hidden Enemy first wouldn't do much unless the Season 1 boxset includes the movie (or the episodes of the movie).



    An event from the Droid Duo are referenced in the Malevolence trilogy- things of this nature can be an irritant to viewers, especially those watching multiple episodes in a row who'd go "Wait- when did he even see her flying?", especially so early in the series.

    Granted, it's not as bad as, say, Crusade's airing/DVD-versus-chronological-versus-story viewing order debacle, but it's something that can be an irritant to fans of a series- especially those who'd be likely to get the DVD set in the first place.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    So The Clone Wars Episode Guide for Season 1 came out in stores recently. It seems to do a good job of addressing and retconning hazy details (Wroonian/Pantoran, Talz homeworld, the use of Ruusaan, etc).

    Of note for this thread is a couple of quotes about chronology from/about Dave. CeiranHarmony posted these quotes from it over in the Literature Forum thread for the book:

    "Dave Filoni knows longtime Star Wars fans are eager to know how events of THE CLONE WARS fit in with the many tales of that conflict that have been told in comics and video games so far - and while he is not ready to tell all, he says "The Hidden Enemy" offers clues."

    "It (the series) really is an anthology of tales set over the period of time that is the Clone Wars."

    "Let Ahsoka be your guide. A, if she is there or not - that usually gives you an idea of here this is happening in the war. - and B, her attitude. How much of a brat is she? How disrespectful (...) vs. how much she's learned? She is always a good barometer where you are at."


    Presumably the references in The Hidden Enemy regard the hints at Ventress and Obi-Wan prior encounter/relationship, I'm guessing.

    The latter comment also suggests support for the theory that Ahsokaless episodes like Trespass might possibly be set before the rest of the series, earlier in the war.
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Keeping things up to date:

    -201: The Hidden Enemy
    -118/TCW: The New Padawan
    -101/TCW: Castle of Doom
    -103/TCW: Castle of Deception
    -104/TCW: Castle of Salvation
    -102: Downfall of a Droid
    -106: Duel of the Droids
    -108: Ambush
    -107: Rising Malevolence
    -109: Shadow of Malevolence
    -111: Destroy Malevolence
    -105: Bombad Jedi
    -110: Cloak of Darkness
    -112: Lair of Grievous
    -114: Rookies
    -116: Dooku Captured
    -120: The Gungan General
    -115: Storm Over Ryloth
    -117: Innocents of Ryloth
    -119: Liberty on Ryloth
    -122: Jedi Crash
    -124: Defenders of Peace
    -125: Trespass
    -126: Blue Shadow Virus
    -202: Mystery of a Thousand Moons
    -204: Hostage Crisis
    -123: Holocron Heist
    -113: Cargo of Doom
    -203: Children of the Force
    -205: Senate Spy
    -207: Landing at Point Rain
    -208: Weapons Factory
    -209: Legacy of Terror
    -212: Brain Invaders
  18. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Is Trespass the only episode (besides Rookiees) not to feature Ahsoka in some form, but featuring Anakin and Obi-Wan?

    By Dave's logic, Trespass would have to be #1 chronologically, before even The Hidden Enemy.

    That doesn't make sense to me. How about this: Ahsoka is recovering from the Blue Shadow Virus, Anakin and Obi-Wan are on their own.

    Put Trespass after Blue Shadow/Mystery of 1000 Moons?
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Factoring in the webcomics, Trespass's comic specifically references Christophsis, which would place it after the movie.

    On Dave's logic and the show alone, it could go anywhere really- it could be set first, or it could be set around the time Ahsoka is assigned to Luminara, or while she's recovering from the Blue Moon Virus, or just before the Bane trilogy while she's on Felucia, or just where it is (and we simply assume she's on another assignment/ship/planet for some unstated reason).

    Since there's no concrete answer (beyond the webcomics vague post-movie consideration), I'm going to refrain from modifying the order beyond the parameters I initially set (though I think I would otherwise agree with your post-Blue Moon suggestion as a good "recommended viewing order" suggestion).

    Heh, I haven't even considered what my preferred viewing order will ultimately be yet...I think I'll wait for the official episode order this season as a final factor to consider in both that and the production order approaches.
  20. gharyz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 1
    I would like to thank you all for working on this list. Although it took me a while to find it, persistence paid off. This is EXACTLY what I need for the day off from work.

    I know that generating it is a labor of love, but I thought you needed to know that there are people out there who greatly appreciate your efforts.
  21. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    Jumping the gun a little bit, it seems like the Mandalore trilogy is the earliest chronological material yet. And Lightsaber Lost predates Grievous Intrigue, as the latter shows Ahsoka hanging around with Terra Sinube whom she first meets in the former. So it looks roughly like this:

    -Mandalore Plot
    -Voyage of Temptation
    -Duchess of Mandalore
    -201: The Hidden Enemy
    -118/TCW: The New Padawan
    -101/TCW: Castle of Doom
    -103/TCW: Castle of Deception
    -104/TCW: Castle of Salvation
    -102: Downfall of a Droid
    -106: Duel of the Droids
    -108: Ambush
    -107: Rising Malevolence
    -109: Shadow of Malevolence
    -111: Destroy Malevolence
    -105: Bombad Jedi
    -110: Cloak of Darkness
    -112: Lair of Grievous
    -114: Rookies
    -116: Dooku Captured
    -120: The Gungan General
    -115: Storm Over Ryloth
    -117: Innocents of Ryloth
    -119: Liberty on Ryloth
    -122: Jedi Crash
    -124: Defenders of Peace
    -125: Trespass
    -126: Blue Shadow Virus
    -202: Mystery of a Thousand Moons
    -204: Hostage Crisis
    -123: Holocron Heist
    -113: Cargo of Doom
    -203: Children of the Force
    -205: Senate Spy
    -207: Landing at Point Rain
    -208: Weapons Factory
    -209: Legacy of Terror
    -212: Brain Invaders
    -Lightsaber Lost
    -Grievous Intrigue
    -The Deserter

    Sorry for not attaching the episode numbers... just threw this together off the top of my head...
  22. TheFiffis Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2010
    star 1
    My girlfriend and I were discussing how these Mandalorian episodes seem like they're before the movie. Anakin's attitude alone seems to suggest this (seemed very cocky), plus Rex referring to R2 as "Skywalker's astromech" (and the obvious lack of a certain Ms. Tano).

    I hope we get to see more of Obi-Wan and Anakin pre-Ahsoka.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Good call on Lightsaber Lost's placement.

    If the spoilers I've heard for the next episode or so are true, I don't think the Mando trilogy can be placed any earlier than after Hostage Crisis, due to (SPOILERS!) Farr's death. Otherwise I'd be inclined to agree it could be set pre-movie.
  24. TheFiffis Jedi Knight

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    Jan 14, 2010
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    Is this spoiler for Duchess of Mandalore or Senate Murders?
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Oh damn, you're right- I mixed the two up.

    Ok, so, yeah, Mandalore Trilogy could be pre-movie...

    EDIT- So we'll go with that for now, since Farr and Taa's presence makes more sense here if it's before Bombad and Ryloth.


    -213: The Mandalore Plot
    -121: Voyage of Temptation
    -216: Duchess of Mandalore

    -201: The Hidden Enemy
    -118/TCW: The New Padawan
    -101/TCW: Castle of Doom
    -103/TCW: Castle of Deception
    -104/TCW: Castle of Salvation
    -102: Downfall of a Droid
    -106: Duel of the Droids
    -108: Ambush
    -107: Rising Malevolence
    -109: Shadow of Malevolence
    -111: Destroy Malevolence
    -105: Bombad Jedi
    -110: Cloak of Darkness
    -112: Lair of Grievous
    -114: Rookies
    -116: Dooku Captured
    -120: The Gungan General
    -115: Storm Over Ryloth
    -117: Innocents of Ryloth
    -119: Liberty on Ryloth
    -122: Jedi Crash
    -124: Defenders of Peace
    -125: Trespass
    -126: Blue Shadow Virus
    -202: Mystery of a Thousand Moons
    -204: Hostage Crisis
    -123: Holocron Heist
    -113: Cargo of Doom
    -203: Children of the Force
    -205: Senate Spy
    -207: Landing at Point Rain
    -208: Weapons Factory
    -209: Legacy of Terror
    -212: Brain Invaders
    -211: Lightsaber Lost
    -214: Grievous Intrigue
    -206: The Deserter