Full Series The Clone Wars- Episode 109: Cloak of Darkness Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

So, then he's weaker than the Jedi he kills? I'm not sure I follow. The reason she should be stronger is because she uses the Force... so then by that logic shouldn't anyone who uses the Force be stronger than him? She's unrefined, no Sith Lord, or Jedi even. I don't see why she should be more powerful than Grievous.

 

Edit: I take back everything I said, I don't know what I was thinking I love the character General Grievous and how he kills Jedi.

 

Dunno what you said before you edited your post, but it is an interesting problem.

I think a large part of Grievous' effectiveness comes in his ability to terrorize his opponent. I believe it's in Labyrinth of Evil where Dooku tells Grievous that surprise and terror are his biggest weapons against the Jedi.

 

You'd think the Jedi could just Force-push him back ( or even do what Mace did in the Tartakovsky cartoon ). In the TCW movie Ahsoka uses a seemingly powerful Force push against a Retail droid, why couldn't Grievous be dealt with similarly? On the other hand, he does have magnetizable feet, according to the ROTS script and other sources. That still wouldn't help him if he were Force-attacked in the middle of a leap, for example.

 

Maybe he has a density projector built into him like the Ultra Battle Droid has.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Density_projector

 

Something along those lines would be nice, but then we have to retcon the disappearance of the density projector prior to ROTS ( unless Obi-wan's just that good ).

Or maybe Mace broke it...

 

Once down this past you begin, forever will it dominate your destiny....

 

Sweet...I love it when Henry Gilroy posts here!

I was the one who asked about the Bullock/Filoni credit issue. Thanks a lot for the clarification! Sorry to hear about that kind of "drama" happening during the production of this episode...but hey, it all worked out in the end. That was a great episode!

And you're right about lack of resources sometimes creating the best stories. To be honest, I didn't even notice that this was a "box" episode, as you put it. Even with the limited locations, the animation was all so beautiful that I never would have guessed that you actually had to work within a budget.

Henry, I don't know if you have any say on what's included on DVD release, but I would love to see extended-length episodes with all of the cut lines/scenes restored. Sometimes 22 minutes just isn't enough.

 

In the TCW movie Ahsoka uses a seemingly powerful Force push against a Retail droid, why couldn't Grievous be dealt with similarly? On the other hand, he does have magnetizable feet, according to the ROTS script and other sources. That still wouldn't help him if he were Force-attacked in the middle of a leap, for example.

Warning -- extremely esoteric and totally unsatisfying unofficial rationalization ahead!

Back in the old WEG RPG days, the rules for using Force powers against opponents dictated that the difficulty stemmed from a number of factors. For telekinesis, mass and proximity were certainly the primary factors. But when powers were used against living opponents, said opponents could raise the difficulty of such tasks by an inherent resistance. They rolled dice related to a certain attribute, and that total was then added to a Jedi's difficulty. But a droid or rock or other unliving object didn't get add to that difficulty.

Reading between the lines, the suggestion was that living things -- things imbued with the Force itself -- could naturally resist such moves more so than things bereft of the Force. Of course, game mechanics have no bearing on any storytelling, but for whatever reason, I've always carried that mechanic in my mind when I see such displays of Force power.

Sheesh. This post might even be too geeky for this forum!

ph

 

tg;dr


I think both points of contention with Ashoka (her being "right" more often and also being a commander at such a young age) point to a larger narrative of the Clone Wars: the Republic has serious issues.

I mean, really, they have cloned humans as soldiers and any available Samurai warrior should lead them in battle, regardless of whether or not they know what they're doing.

Meanwhile in the midst of warfare the Jedi refuse to go against their rules, real or imagined, and often suffer loses because of it.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Sure, it's cool to have the kid outthink the aduts - occasionally! Yoda wasn't too proud to listen to the younglings - but experience should count for something.

Sure, Gunray got away, but Luminara acknowledged that Ahsoka was right. Fine, if sometimes Ahsoka ISN'T right, too - AND the characters acknowledge that, as well.

But there's just no way IMHO that a 13 (14?) padawan, even of Anakin Skywalker, is going to be the icing on the cake all the time.

 

The best episode so far was intended to be a box show! Wow, that?s just weird, has that ever happened before in TV?

The clones are just 10-12 years old, why couldn?t a 14 year old kid with Jedi training be able to lead them?

 

But there's just no way IMHO that a 13 (14?) padawan, even of Anakin Skywalker, is going to be the icing on the cake all the time.

If any of you saw the series preview on the CW DVD , Ahsoka does fail in an upcoming episode. BIG TIME. People get hurt and killed because of her actions.

That issue will be brought up in the next episode "Lair of Greivous".

 

Well, the clones aren't necessarily kids, right? The have advanced aging, plus oodles of training, in addition to "in the trenches" experience. Whereas a padawan has a normal growth rate. I'm not too familiar with padawan training, but from the movies, I suppose it's hanging out at the temple, training until they're out on the field with a master jedi. And I doubt they're heavily trained in combat tactics like the clones were, but I could be wrong. To me, Jedi were trained more as peacekeepers than military generals.

I guess I look at it as if you sent a rookie officer to Iraq; what kind of respect would he get if he were to lead a bunch of soldiers who had been there for months or years? Realistically speaking, I don't think a padawan could lead, but in the realm of a kid's show, it gives the kids a sense of empowerment they don't have in their daily lives. Which is also why I kinda understand the "Ahsoka-factor" so far in TCW; older folk have a problem with it because we learn it doesn't work that way, but kids eat it up. I think once people realize this, the series becomes more enjoyable.

 

Just as long as it doesn't end with the Jedi council doing another "its ok snips, you tried your best". I've heard that way too many times in this series already. "Its ok, Goldie was just trying his best." after the droid nearly got Skywalker killed about 5 times. Failures wash out you know, and the cocky ones go first. Kinda understand how Asoka doesn't make to Ep III

 

Goldie did end up getting his dome knocked off and destroyed!

 

They'll smack her on the hand and then have a happy rainbow fly overhead. Ahsoka will realize her mistake, and say sorry. End.

 

Guys, I just edited to black highlight the discussion of a future episode involving Ahsoka. Remember that any discussion of all episodes viewed to this point are free game in here, but if you're talking about something that hasn't aired, please black highlight the information.

 

This episode was OK. Though I'm gonna say, Luminara's voice.. it's a nice voice, but too soft, and I didn't like the accent. I prefer the deep voice she had in the Tartakovsky cartoon, but oh well.
Ahsoka.. what a hothead. Now why does the Council think Anakin of all people should be her Master? Are they just setting this up so they'll have a reason not to promote him as a Master? In the end I guess she's just there to bring something new to this 'new' Star Wars.
Asajj was pretty cool and sneaky. I liked Luminara telling her her skills were amateurish.
Asajj's teeth.. eww.
I also liked Luminara pulling Ahsoka up and saving her, with Ahsoka embarrassingly saying thanks. And yeah, you'd think Ahsoka would have burn marks from that explosion. Just one of those things you don't have to be too realistic about I guess.
And the next episode. I don't know how much we're allowed to talk about it, so I'll just say I like how a certain Jedi Master's voice sounded. Very Samurai Jack-like.

 

The reason I assessed Ahsoka as making the correct decision is that Ventress seemed able to best Luminara on her own, and I have little doubt Ventress wouldn't have been able to take Ahsoka by herself, given the chance. Therefore, Gunray would have escaped either way.

Sir was established in the previous ep as being non-gender specific.

Thanks for clueing us in to some behind the scenes bit, Henry! Hard to believe someone would willingly just walk off this show. Guess that's show biz!

 

"Well, the clones aren't necessarily kids, right? The have advanced aging, plus oodles of training, in addition to "in the trenches" experience..."

Absolutely, I just don?t think the difference between a 14 year old jedi and the "25" year old clone is the same difference like with a normal 14 year old girl and a normal 25 year old man.

 

Oh man I LOVED this episode. Love the intercutting between the Jedi fighting and the Nute/Gree/Argyus stuff. Intercutting stories is very Star Wars.

I loved the pairing of Luminara and Ahsoka more than Anakin and Ahsoka. They felt more natural with each other. Hopefully we go back to Anakin and Obi-wan pairing up soon and have Ahsoka floating around. Also, I didn't like how Ahsoka kept teach Luminara stuff. Other than those minor things, this episode was perfect. And I'd already seen most of it. LOL. Still rocked.

I hope Marsters returns as another character. He has a great voice for animation.

 

I loved her accent. She sounds like Tak from Invader Zim (if anyone has any idea...). Same actress?

 

Yes, same actress. Olivia d'Abo (Karen Arnold) played both roles.

 

Yes, I knew it. She has a beautiful voice (except as Tak). XD