Full Series The Clone Wars- Episode 110: Lair of Grievous Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

The characterisation for Grievous was better than previous episodes, considering the director. The medical droid reminded me a bit of something from Ghost in the Shell.

Grievous with no legs was a huge shock. They can pull them off so easily? So that's why that Gentle Giant figure shows him with no legs. I wonder why Grievous didn't get that medical droid replaced a long time ago.

Kit Fisto for animal cruelty! My sister screamed when she saw him kill Gor. I dislike how they killed the Mon Calamari padawan for being too "un-Jedi", just like they did to poor Jacen Solo for learning from Vergere (who is my favourite Star Wars EU character) D:

This episode would have been better if it showed a wall covered with Kaleesh newspaper clippings about Grievous (and maybe a pair of those Kaleesh red lobster panties), and a painting of Ronderu. Please, in another episode? Otherwise I'll have to write my "Sheela" doing everything Grievous doesn't in this series


The webcomic's first panel is actually very cute.

 

Is it just me or did anyone else notice GG's droid doctor's homo mannerisms... That droid was ******* creepy, he almost blew his load when he was watching GG fight on the hologram right before he got stabbed by fisto. Kit Fisto pissed me off too because all he wanted to do the whole episode was run from GG, although his fight scenes were cool.

That word has to be asterisked here.

 

I didn't notice anyone else ask it yet, so I will.

Was that Sam Jackson's voice at the very end? I know Mace only had one very brief line, but it sure sounded like him.

Good episode overall, I really liked it when Dooku was saying how Grievous should be killing more jedi to please sidious, and grievous comes back with the fact that he only has vastly inadequate battle droids to work with, even his body guards are no match many times.

 

No, Sam voiced Mace in the movie, but in the series it's some other dude (can't remember his name). On the other hand, Seth Green was said to voice Kit Fisto so who the hell knows xD

And I am guessing the reason Kit didn't shoot Grievous down from his fighter is that a shot shot from his starfighter could have killed him and he wanted Grievous alive.

 

Mace is voiced by TC Carson, who has basically done Mace's voice in everything outside the films.

I really liked this episode. Takeiuchi (sp?) is a great director. There were a lot of cool shots. Grievous was really BA in this episode and made me like his character more. Kit was fun, Phil Lamarr did a great job. The lightsaber duel with them both was the best in the series so far, as was the animation. I agree with other people on this board that this episode should have been an hour, it felt a little rushed. Nahdar was a decent character and the medical droid was pretty funny.

As revealed in th commentary, Dave is not ignoring Grievous backstory, he's just not mentioning any of it because of what George wanted Grievous' backstory to be. Overall pretty good episode, I don't know if I can wait 3 weeks for the next one!

 

So in other words he didn't like Lucas's backstory for Grievous.

I don't blame him, Grievous wanting to be a Jedi, and becoming a cyborg on purpose?

Labyrinth of Evil's backstory for him is so much better.

 

My favorite part was where Greivous grabs the clonetrooper and hits Fisto with him!

 

hi everyone i'm batsy2 and i love the clone wars

last night's episode was excellent i love how kit fisto was potrayed in this series as opposed to the movies, phil Lammar does his voice justice. I love grevious as always he is my third favorite villain after vader and boba fett. I love seeing the stautes that shows what he looked like before his "improvements" and Gor was creepy.

i give this episode 9/10

next one looks great another rematch between anakin and dooku

 

Sorry, but I have to vent, but what is with you people? Why do you gobble up every tiny bit of information about an episode (including deaths, escapes, captures, key plot points, etc...) before you actually watch it? Is there anyone on this site that actually likes to be SURPRISED by a movie or show? I intentionally will never touch a thread about a future episode, because I know the knuckleheads here will post whatever you can.

Is there no shame?

 

I don't like being spoiled too much. I just like seeing a few clips that don't give away the Like I was surprised in the last week's episode by Captain Argyus' betrayal. I kind of knew Nadar was going to die from the series preview in the CW DVD when they were talking about this episode.

 

I don't like spoilers either, I tend to stay 90% spoiler free (granted, I failed to do so for this episode, but that was out of sheer excitement to finally see Kit in action, I regret it a lot though). But honestly, this is not about spoiling the episode, it's about discussing it. Obviously, if you have seen it already then there is nothing to spoil. Imagine for example discussing any movie without giving away details.

- I really liked the concept
- The concept of what?
- You know... thatthing
- You mean...
- No the other thing.. wait what thing are we talking about?
- I have no idea

Anyway, just came to think about it, would have been so much better if they introduced Nahdar in the webcomic like they did with Argyus, that way the episode may have seemed a little less hasted. All in all I think the webcomic is criminally underused, hopefully we get a bonus chapter or something during the holiday break ^^

 

Wow, feel better Not-A-Moon?

I, for one, never come into an episode thread until after the episode airs. I don't even look at the web-comic until after. IMO, getting all that info, even the web-com set up, spoils the fun of discovery. But if some like to know the details before the episode, so be it - to each their own. Tho, I don't think anyone here who did get the details prior has said that it spoiled the episode for them. (edit - oops! spoke too soon. Sorry, MvG-88.) I came in fresh and was still a bit disappointed.

And, yeah, we can all talk about it now cuz it's already been shown...don't tell me you missed it!

Upon third viewing this morning, my opinion of the ep has improved somewhat. Kit is really BA. Someone mentioned this earlier, but I agree, Kit would've taken down GG had he not gotten outmanned. One on one, Grievous would've been taken out. I still hold that this ep deserved to be an hour long or two episodes; 20+ minutes is not enough.

Big nerdy question - does anyone know if they have been consistent with lightsaber design for each jedi? Did this ep's representation of Kit Fisto's saber match what has been shown on the movies? How 'bout Luminara's? (not talkin' bout the color, but the hilt)

 

It doesn't bother me as much as it did for the films, but beyond the official previews, I don't really want to see or hear anything else.

Of course, with being a mod, I have to accept that I'll probably see something I'd rather not, but that's okay.

 

Not--A-Moon: Y' know, I do feel sympathy for you and I hope you don't take what I'm about to say as meaning to belittle you, but honestly! Who's the knucklehead here? The posters innocently enthusing about their favourite or not so favourite bits in the ep they just saw or the person who doesn't want to be spoiled choosing to read a thread that has (Spoilers Allowed) in its title?

Ahem! More seriously now, I haven't seen this ep myself and may well never see this ep, yet have already spoiled myself rotten, first by reading the synopsis and looking at the stills over at the official site, then stills and reaction on another site, and then by coming here, just to check out what other fans thought of the thing. I personally like being spoiled for anything I'm going to invest time in because a/ it's a way to gauge whether something's even worth watching in the first place, and /b because once you do decide to watch something, it alerts you to all sorts of interesting things to keep an eye out for which you might otherwise miss. As for wanting to be surprised? I dunno... I seem to have a real knack for conveniently forgetting the genuinely surprising stuff as soon as I read about it. Of course, this may just be an indicator of early senility settling in...

And now that I'm thoroughly spoiled to the point where flies are starting to circle, I'm going to revise an earlier first impression. TCW Grievous in this episode isn't a vain twit at all. He's a pompous dolt and a doorknob! (But still quite pretty to look at...)

 

I know right?
I can't imagine pre-Grievous like "When I grow up I wanna be a Jedi!", when the Jedi were the ones decimating his people and pushing them into financial ruin. Somehow...can't grasp that.

 

I think it's him more wanting to be as powerful as the Jedi and being frustrated that as good a warrior he may not be as strong as the Jedi are. I don't see him actually wanting to be like them in terms of philosophy and being close to the Force. At least that's how I choose to see it. I don't think he's like Syndrome from The Incredibles!

 

Yes, that's my problem as well...I still want to hold out that he was forced to accept his transformation and he probably felt it was the only way out since he was unable to return to his people and he could get the chance for revenge against those he percieved did this to him(the shuttle crash). So, he accepted his fate and went with it, keeping up with modifications and having spare parts on hand.

I hope they further his character in later episodes and more stuff in his past comes out(I'd hate to believe the gradual change from organic being to cyborg that was portrayed in the webcomic.)

I agree waheenay...I think it's more respect for their warrior abilities than wanting to covet them(at least that's what I want to believe.)

 

Thinking about it. Kit's conversation with Ahsoka and Luminara must have occurred before the debriefing with Anakin and Yoda at the end of the last episode.

 

I hope they stick with the 'Eyes of Revolution' version.

 

Am I the only one that picked up on the droid surgeon's voice? That's cleveland from Family guy, which I think is hilarious since he played the voice of R2-D2 in Blue Harvest.

On another note, I saw the death of Nahdar Vebb coming a mile away. In fact, as cool as it was to see a mon cal jedi, he was kind of a snob anyways, his voice annoyed me.

 

I love coming here and getting people's reactions. It really helps to gauge them against my own and see what I'm potentially missing in an episode. Like Jedi Soral, I've stopped coming into the threads before the show airs, since I too want to be completely unspoiled. I slightly regret looking at the previews on the TCW dvd. So, although reading the reactions is helping me to appreciate it more, this is the first episode I can say was mostly a disappointment, although I did like things in it.

I completely agree with folks who assessed this one as being too rushed. I think they were juggling a few too many elements at one time here. Grievous is a fairly important character in the overall saga, and the revelation of his lair is something they should have taken a bit more time to explore properly. It came off as just another location. It's not that I didn't like the design, but just the opposite, and hated seeing it given such short shrift.

I enjoyed the peek into what Grievous' life generally consisted of. Dr. Droid's mouthiness really surprised me and I would have enjoyed seeing more of that dynamic, although I suppose it was enough to at least give us a general sense of their relationship. Reading this thread makes me appreciate more seeing Grievous had a pet he actually seemed to care for. Gor's qualities certainly underscored Grievous' ruthlessness and the critter's final fight with the Jedi was well done.

Apparently, some different presentations of GG's backstory (that I haven't read) have given fans different interpretations of his motivations. I personally don't see a contradiction in being forced into becoming a cyborg and being a "junkie" for mechanical modifications. To me, both statements represent different points on the same journey and feed logically into each other. While this wasn't a Grievous origin story, it's as close as we've gotten so far in the series. Just felt like a lost opportunity being let in a little bit on what makes him tick and then having the rug pulled out from under him.

I saw no reason for Kit to be critical of Nahdar taking out some battle droids, unless he was just being too... showy? It comes back to them not taking sufficient time to develop either character. Also, "The clones got in the way" line really struck me as un-Jedi-like. They're his freakin' allies! And then he turns around and shows remorse for them. I do see that Nahdar was deeply written enough to have internal conflict. I don't see that they gave enough room for those conflicts to manifest into something story-worthy.

Even if I hadn't seen any previews or read other fans' predictions, Nahdar's death was telegraphed from several miles away. I found it a bit oversimplified to characterize him as basically a Jedi undeserving of the title, sort of implying that he did deserve his fate. I'll grant, tho, that the same criticism could be leveled at Anakin as portrayed in the films.

Last episode, Dooku presented a mandate to Ventress that she must be victorious or she would go to bed without supper. This time, we get the same thing. Now, if they need to delineate within the course of the episode why the bad guys have to win this time because "it's a kid's show", well that's where I differ with the show's creators. Or maybe I just don't fully appreciate the psychology behind a "kid's show".

Kit Fisto's portrayal featured a few nice flourishes but overall was sadly underwhelming. He's partially dismembering the General each time he faces him, yet ultimately chooses to just up and run away. Why? Because it's the end of the episode?? It's already been pointed out that he could simply have strafed them in his starfighter, but I'll go one further and suppose that he likely could have taken Grievous and the Magnaguards in a face-to-face duel.

The only in-story defense I can see for Fisto's retreat at the end would be the loss of Nahdar. But look how much more the odds were stacked against Obi-wan in ROTS. A rewritten scene (as pointed out earlier) depicting Kit as ba

 

It...it was? Wow.
That droid did act a bit...um, flamboyant? XD

 

jedi-soon: Nip on over to the episode's write-up at the official SW site and check out the slideshow of stills. One pic towards the end shows exactly how the Jedi dude gets killed. I also found it interesting that based on reading their synopsis alone, I came away thinking that the story focused not so much on Grievous as on Kit's concerns that his former padawan/now independent Knight had become far too aggressive. I actually quite like this aspect--it's fairly complex characterization for this series--but I'm not sure how well it came off in the finished ep since not very many fans are commenting on it.

I'm also not crazy about certain aspects to do with Grievous (such as since when does he socialize with droids or allow them to smarth-mouth him?), but...well, I guess that part's for the kids. Also why I'm thinking now that he's kind of a doorknob.

 

I noticed the Mon Calamari(Nadarr his name, I think?) Jedi's descent, but I knew he would be dead before the end of the episode so I didn't really think much of the character beside those observations...but other have said that they should have fleshed him out more so they could have felt more about his death.

 

Good episode, it was cool getting to see Grievous's home base. I like how Count Dooku tested him by turning off his security droids. And I like how Grievous's medical droid gives him a hard time about always getting his mechanical parts damaged and having to have things fixed. hehe He's fun to have around, I hope he survived and will be repaired so we can see him in future episodes.

It was interesting getting to see statues of what I assume to be Grievous before he got all screwed up with all these robot parts stuck on him.