The Clone Wars- Episode 111: Dooku Captured Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The2ndQuest, Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    [face_devil]

    that would be pretty sweet.

    but it would get to be like this:

    http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=S3aiW2DD2nE
  2. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    So Jar Jar will rescue Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku in the next episode, I presume?

    If so, I have changed my mind about The Perfect Ventress Death. Instead of Dooku defeating her in front of Sidious for the title of Sith Apprentice, I have a better idea.

    Jar Jar should throw a heavy watermelon at Ventress. She goes to catch it, but she fumbles it over a 1000 ft cliff. Jar Jar the hero.

  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    It's not far-out- it's a discarded design for Trade Federation battleships and droid fighters in TPM.
  4. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    Flying saucer didn't bother me at all. The Milennium Falcon is pretty flat too.
  5. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Lucas wasn't credited with either the writing or the directing. Huge plot holes aren't the fault of a guy who scribbled out a little outline, but the people who actually made the episode, alright?

    I think this is just representative of lots of fanboy entertainments these days: marketers run the show, and they know that their target markets are so obsessed with melodramatics and what's cool (see: 'X-Men', 'The Dark Knight') that they don't even have to bother with logic and coherence. Just make things "cool". The SW movies aren't without their gaps and flaws, but Lucas overall was a meticulous plotter, just the opposite of the people making the CW.

    Off-screen events (like stealing the Death Star schematics) are totally different than on-screen plot holes. Anakin was supposedly on the ship to help Obi-Wan sneak aboard, and yet we saw Obi-Wan sneak onto the ship of the Separtist's head honcho with absolutely no resistance whatsoever. The staged arrest was, therefore totally unnecessary. What probably happened was that Lucas scribbled the gag down as one line of his treatment and assumed that the writers would concern themselves with logically incorporating it into the plot. Alas, they were probably too busy thinking about what was "cool" then what, ya know, made any sense.

    Furthermore, if Lucas hadn't written this treatment, then I'm pretty sure Jar Jar Ahsoka would've again been awkwardly forced into the role that Obi-Wan had, and we would've had to withstand more awkward flirting and pet-naming between a grown married man and a scantily-clad tween. (Considering that they got drunk at the end of the episode, that could've lead to some really, really creepy possibilities!) So kudos to Lucas for finally finding room for Obi-Wan Kenobi in a 'Star Wars' story!

    On a separate note....is anybody else getting annoyed by the Jedi's body armor? They're totally functionless (they're basically football shoulder pads and don't cover any vital organs), and they're also ugly as heck and totally incongruous with the feel of the Jedi. Nice try, guys. But lose 'em.
  6. Andersonian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2009
    star 1
    What is amusing is that the first gripe is essentially: "You're making the Jedi too powerful!"

    The second one is "You're not making the Jedi powerful enough!"

    It's like the Star Wars lit boards with "this novel needs to be darker!"/"this novel is too dark!"

    What I found interesting is that the last two Dave Filoni commentaries (this one and Lair of Grievous) have been Dave anticipating what the fanboys are going to throw a fit about, and then having to defend that decision. Considering these commentaries have probably been filmed months in advance, it just goes to show how predictably whiny Star Wars fans can be.

    And to the people who are upset about Dooku being captured too easily:

    This episode has had a MASSIVE amount of foreshadowing suggesting that Dooku didn't really try not to get captured.

    The one that obviously springs to mind is when Anakin uses the Force to yank the lightsaber out of the Monkey Lizard's hand to show that Dooku should have been able to do that.
  7. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Yeah, I kinda got that sense, too, and in fact outlined a few ways it could play out. Still, the execution of it was a little rough... unless they specify he made a deal after he found out his lightsabers were gone once the pirates landed and he got off the ship. And the saber things was just weird... he could still have them and be outnumbered. What game was he playing there?
    I'll keep these questions in check until I see part 2, though.
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, I think it's fair to say the execution was a little rough.

    Although, maybe they were trying to be more subtle than when Goldie 'may' have been a spy droid, when it was obvious from about 5 minutes in - the thing that drove me crazy that episode was that Anakin and Ahsoka would have to be catatonic not to notice it! [face_laugh]
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I don't think so- had I not heard spoilers from people who had read TCW Visual Guide, I wouldn't have guessed goldie to be a spy- the "spy" reference in the first episode's dialogue was very quick and offhanded, and so had very little top suggest it was, or was connected to, R3. Just look at the discussion thread for that episode- only a few people (likely most had read spoilers or the VD) said it was obvious, most other people seemed pretty "are you sure? i didn't catch that".
  10. Subach Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2008
    star 1
    Well, at least next week's unfortunate amount of Jar-Jar is potentially balanced by a good helping of far more palatable ingredient known as "Clones kicking serious pirate buttocks".

  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  12. Andersonian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2009
    star 1
    My guess is that in proper Sith Lord fashion he allowed the pirates to "think" they captured him as part of some scheme that he's allready planned out about ten steps ahead.
  13. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    Yeah, I'm with you there. It's really the only thing I don't like about the show's "look". For no real reason, Obi-Wan's bugs me way more than Anakin's.. maybe because it's standard-clone-white, I dunno.
  14. JEDI_MADDEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2008
    wow. I never ever thought the Falcon looked like (falcon isn't shiny chrome), moved like (falcon doesn't spin like a top), or sounded like a UFO.

  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    The UFO look evolved a little into the Droid Control Ship in TPM, though the UFO fighters, complete with bubble cockpits for droid pilots, ended up being repalced by the fighters that are actually droids themselves.

    Still, it's meant to evoke something of the 50's sci-fi look that the prequels introduced- whether it be the shiny and sleek Naboo craft, the Flash Gordon viewscreen effects or the old-school rocket ships in AOTC.

    You'll see the armor go away eventually- Dave has said that the show is supposed to show the transition from the fully-armored look the Jedi had in the Micro-Series to the fully-unarmored look they had in ROTS. Thus in TCW they have some armor, but less than what they did in the Micro-Series (at least in the obvious case of Obi-Wan).
  16. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    What a waste. Why are they trying to "explain" something that was totally random? There was no explanation for the look in the original CW cartoon besides, "It looks cool." (Okay, I made that quote up, but I'd bet my iPod that that's precisely what was said.)

    Filoni & Co. could've just had these two Jedi dressed like actual Jedi and if any fans griped, just said, "That was their style, here's our style." And you know what? Everybody would've accepted that. Instead they're pathetically now trying to concoct a logic around something that had no logic. What a waste of time.
  17. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Actually, I'm not sure whether it's stated during the cartoon or when The Clone Wars was in its early stages, but Obi-Wan actually wears parts of his clone armor to illustrate his connection to his troops. Besides, in view of the old 2D cartoon, if I was jousting at subsonic speeds with turbolances that can pierce an AT-TE's armor like tin foil, I think I'd like SOME form of armor to ensure I don't get impaled. XD

    The visual guide attempts to clear up that Obi-Wan keeps the armor around (seemingly covering the arms, legs, and with a black body glove) as it protects him from minor injuries and helps him keep his focus. I personally think it's alright for the Jedi to adapt or change their styles to befit the war initially but later settle into a balance of outfits and eventually make the transition back into their robes. Although the Republic comics don't really show Jedi in armor, some of them stop wearing flowing robes and others take up blasters and rifles in battle. This is part of the evolution of war, at least in Clone Wars.

    I have to admit, I agree and disagree with you on the matter of Jedi armor. On the one hand, for more practically dressed Jedi like Obi-Wan (to me, at least. The body weave and arm and leg armor might help) and Anakin, I think that it DOES serve some purpose. But I can't for the life of me figure out why the likes of Plo Koon, Mace Windu and Kit Fisto don gauntlets but nothing else but robes. Is it just in case blaster bolts are headed for the area where they hold their blades? Are those gauntlets blaster resistant? That's the only reason I can think of.

    However, I don't think they're ugly. I happen to like armor that isn't too bulky yet is able to showcase other pieces of fashion, so I'm afraid you'll have to pardon me for having a dissenting view. I just happen to like partly-armored looks...possibly inspired by a variety of comic characters. XD
  18. WedgeWalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    I submit that it did have logic. Jedi only have, generally speaking, two arms and one lightsaber. So why not wear some armor when entering a battle wherein you face the potential of being shot from multiple directions at once?

    I have no problem with GT's original micro-series having armor-clad Jedi. It makes sense. Nor do I have a problem the current show having Jedi wearing some armor, as (in addition to the protection it affords) it gives things a bit of a military look.

    I really don't see what the stink is about.
  19. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The Jedi are always moving their hands to deflect blaster bolts, and it would protect them if a stray bolt got through their saber defence.
  20. WedgeWalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    That actually makes perfect sense. The wrists of humans and humanoids only move so far. The one area that can't be covered by a bladed weapon like a lightsaber (unless you hold it backwards) is the forearm...the very place they wear the armor.
  21. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    I'd guess that another factor was budgetary: the armor was probably easier to animate or render or something, too. Obi-Wan basically has the same arms as all the clones, which probably means it took less time to get him up and running. Just speculating, though.
  22. Darth_Neznarf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1

    I actually like the Jedi wearing the Clone armor. The 1st time I saw Obiwan in the 1/2 Jedi - 1/2 Clone armor I thought it was TOTALLY COOL! I mean thinking as a kid that grew up on Star Wars, I never imagined even seeing Obiwan young, then seeing him in a Stormtrooper outfit totally took me by surprise. I really dig it! (although, the armor doesn't seem to help or stop a laser blast even on the troopers[face_laugh])

    To add to a topic that has been discussed ealier in the thread about the EU and some considering much of it to be canon... Here is a clip of what Dave Faloni said about the Clone Wars cartoon and it relating to the EU. (Im sure this will prob start the debate all over again but I read it in the interview thread and thought it was pretty much what I was saying and what Garth commented on the subject as well)

    Dave Faloni said:
    This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of Star Wars as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas? Star Wars, and tell the Star Wars story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to ?unlearn what we had learned? and go back to the movies as the defining source material.



  23. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I find it interesting that although you have issues with fanboys throwing fits and whiny Star Wars fans you clearly joined the discussion and weighed in on a particular side of the discussion.;)
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    There actually was a point to the full clone armor in the Micro-Series- we're supposed to be surprised and cheer when they reveal our hero is Obi-Wan. If it was just a Jedi robe it'd be telegraphed or easier to guess earlier.
  25. Darth_Neznarf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1
    Yea, that was cool! That to me, was the best thing I saw in the micro series. It was an ok series, but compared to this new Clone Wars series it's nothing. Its too bad that these weren't done in in the year leading up to ROTS. But Lucas probably wouldn't have wanted this much SW exposure leading up to ROTS. (for us nuts, it woulda been great tho!)



    On an unrelated topic, just for fun and for myself and son, I made a special extended version of the Clone Wars movie and reinserted the deleted scenes. It turned out GREAT (IMO)! The 'Through The Tanks' scene seemed to be an alternate scene but I cut it up with the existing scene and put it together. I put up just that scene on youtube if anyone wants to take a peek at it along with a menu I made for the disc. Here's a link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM3qmKLf-pc&feature=channel_page
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