The Clone Wars- Episode 111: Dooku Captured Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The2ndQuest, Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. Andersonian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2009
    star 1
    I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the scence at the beginning of the episode where Obi Wan slams the door on those two Nikto prisoners because they "weren't who he was looking for".

    I mean, wow, what a dick.

    How did Obi Wan know that these wern't political prisoners who would be valuable to the Republic? Maybe they were scientists who were working on the next big superweapon? Hell, they might even know the identity of Darth Sidious for all Obi Wan knew. Even if they were just common criminals it's still pretty mean.
  2. Thorn058 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2008
    star 2
    Late to the discussion but was anyone else waiting for the Pirates to break into song and dance? I mean the english accents, the clothes. Really pantaloons seriously space age technology and they have pantaloons? The monkey lizard in stead of a parrot. I thought I was watching a version of the Pirates of Penzance. That was my only thought through out the whole episode. Where was Captain Jack? Is that wierd or what?
  3. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Great point! The Separatists aren't a recognized governing body, which means that all of their prisoners are unjustly held, which means Obi-Wan should've let them go.

    Even if he couldn't let them go because they might blow his cover, he could've at least expressed some sympathy. Instead, he was sadistic, mocking their suffering.

    You're right: what a d--k.

    Hey, at least it wasn't "tough" and "spunky" Ahsoka: I'm sure they would've had her stand in the doorway and taunt them for five minutes to let everybody know that, hey, even tween girls can be "tough", pro-war sadists. It'd be "empowering" to girls, ya know?

    Come to think of it....the show has this relentless pro-authority theme. The total opposite of the SW movies.
  4. MvG-88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1

    I couldn't have said it better myself. On Friday we'll hear him explain why Jar Jar is there :p Also on Friday we'll be laughing at the whole "Dooku couldn't have been captured" discussion.

    Also I think people are too fast to assume that this specific episode sucked because George Lucas wrote the outline or synopsis or whatever, we're talking about something we know very little about. It's like I would accuse my best friend of sleeping with my girlfriend on the grounds that she was over at his house.

    And about the clone armor, I barley notice Anakin's, I was annoyed by Obi's at first but I think it's OK now. The real question is where is Ashoka's clone armor? :p
  5. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    What, and have them cover up her midriff? That defeats the entire purpose of her character. It'd be like having Yoda wear a mouthguard.

    I'm having this discussion in another thread: could they be any more shameless about the fact their goal is to foster romantic tension between married, grown-up Anakin and underage Ahsoka? The pet names, the banter, the "That's my master!" line in the same tone as "That's my man!", the secret looks they give each other while Obi-Wan talks about the war....it's actually over-the-top.
  6. Thorn058 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2008
    star 2
    You make very good points except we as the audience know that his is married but she doesn't in fact no one at this point would. It is unclear if even 3po knows and he was there. No I think it is more like they are fostering the student/teacher crush so that they can eventually play the let her down easy card. It plays well to the tween audience and unfortunatly gets the sicko creeps that like the school girl crush fantasy as well. The drama of the unrequeted love is a typical plot device one that they have shown that they have no problem going for given the sterotypical stuff they have pulled so far. The jamacian accent for Fisto, the english accents on space pirates, stuff of that nature.
  7. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Oh, yay, I made a good theory and answered my own question. Thanks a lot, Garth and Wedge. And yes, I am somewhat needy/grateful (take your pick) which is why I bothered posting a thank you. And yes, this seems late and out of place. :D

    I think that they COULD be blaster resistant. The visual guide refers to Plo's gauntlets as 'scavenged forearm armor'. I'm not sure how many raw materials they have lying around, but for all we know, it could be salvaged from a starfighter. Or Star Destroyer. XD

    Plo Koon: (at fighter wreckage) [face_whistling] (peels off portion)
    Clone: General, what're you doing?
    Plo Koon: GAH! Oh, uh, this? Why, nothing! Just...a little salvage mission, that's all.
    Clone: Ahhhh. Right. o_O

    Back on topic...

    I agree wholeheartedly, like the level-headed fan (mindless drone to some I suppose) I am. =D=

    Perhaps that ensemble of Ahsoka's is made of an ultra-malleable and flexible protective material. We just don't know it. Or maybe she's hoping her enemies wouldn't dare hit a teenage girl.[face_laugh]
  8. JEDI_MADDEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2008
    In their quest to "empower" young women, they are teaching them that they have little value unless we can see their bare flesh (mid-riff).
    All of the new SW characters in EU are like that too. Maris Brood. Darth Talon. The Vector Chick. Aayla Secura. Britney Spears.
    Yes let's teach them that unlike men, who can be taken seriously when fully dressed, a girl needs to be showing some skin and have lots of attitude to be taken seriously. I don't think Princess Leia would approve. She wore a bikini only because she was a slave to a pig called Jabba. I guess the moral is all men are JABBAS.

    But this episode has more controversy than Lair of Grievous. Frankly I found that episode story-wise, dialog-wise, animation-wise vastly superior to episode 11.
  9. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    The jamacian accent for Fisto, the english accents on space pirates, stuff of that nature.

    English accents? Their accents sounded almost French or Spanish to me.:confused:
  10. MvG-88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1
    I reacted to Fisto's accent as well, I always thought he'd sound cool with a Jamaican tone but I never thought they'd go there seeing how much poodo they got for Jar Jar. It's just a minor stereotype though, and he ended up sounding good so I don't really mind.
  11. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Thorn058,

    I suppose I agree that the teacher/pupil crush is a totally valid story, but not on a cartoon for kids. What's more, they're not presenting it as an innocent, one-way crush: it's a perpetual flirtation and banter that both of them participate in. And the fact that it's mostly subliminal suggests that the makers of the show are going to deny that there's a sexual tension between them, and so instead of a thoughtful examination of adolescent crushes, we're going to get more sexual undertones....and bare midriffs.

    Good observation! Are there any women in the EU who are just, like, normal? Do they all have to be attitude-drenched/feisty/war-hawk/tortured/angry? Has anybody else noticed that CW mutated Padme from an anti-war diplomat into a pro-war fighter?

    Ya know, the more I'm thinking about it I'm recognizing that SW has devolved from an anti-authoritarian pop entertainment to pro-authority, pro-power, politically correct disposable garbage. I skimmed through 'Shadows of Minadar' at a bookstore the other day, and it's the same stuff: they turned the Rebel Alliance into the U.S. Department of Defense, for God's sake. Government-loving, politically correct dudes: create your own sci-fi worlds. Stop hijacking and contaminating 'Star Wars', okay?
  12. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Luminara?

    I just haven't seen any flirtation between Ahsoka and Anakin at all, ever. Just because you're teasing somebody doesn't mean you're flirting with them.
  13. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, that revealing midriff is definitely a "tease".
  14. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    LOL. I actually thought about that, but remember the Seps are a political movement (not the evil Empire) they are a group of planets that wants to be independent from the Republic... so for all Obi-wan knew they were two murderers captured on a Separatist world and could have been very dangerous. I'm sure if they were two clones he would have helped them out. :)
  15. DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2008
    star 2
    There was also a Bith as well.
  16. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, but that doesn't mean she's necessarily flirting wtih Anakin.
  17. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    The truth is that this episode is weird, becuase all the written lore in the clone wars, show Dooku as an able dark side force user/manipulator. One who is not able to be that easily caught. I believe that in order to enjoy this episode, we have to chuck to the side, all the prior clone war stuff, and just look at this as 2.0.
  18. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    The fact that she's scantily clad does demonstrate that the makers are using her for sex appeal. So, now we have precedent: the makers of CW (a) are trying to sex things up, and (b) are willing to use an adolescent character to do so.

    Now, to make the leap and say that they also consciously injected sexual tension between Anakin and Ahsoka is another matter. But consider this quick list that I hastily threw together in another thread:

    Why do they have pet names for each other?
    Why doesn't Ahsoka wear armor?
    Why does Ahsoka wear a skin-bearing midriff?
    Why didn't they give Obi-Wan a Padawan?
    Why does Ahsoka say, "That's my master" with a dreamy look on her face, the same way women are known to say, "That's my man"?
    Why does so much of their dialogue seem like an obvious attempt to hack the screwball bantering of the famous romantic comedies of the 30's and 40's (such as 'It Happened One Night' and 'All About Eve')?

    When you consider all of this, then I don't personally have any doubt that the makers willfully are trying to convey a subliminal sexual tension between a grown, married man and an underage teen.
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Their accents sounded a tad aussie to me, actually.

    As for clothing- we have plenty of on-screen examples of anachronistic clothing- the robes the Naboo fighters wear, their helmets and goggles, etc.
  20. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    You got a good point there, and I can't remeber were, but I read something that Ashoka was going to have a minor crush on Anakin. We have three years of clone war action, but if they continue to make more episodes up to the begining of ROTS then I wouldn't be surprised if maybe some sort of pop kiss is done.
  21. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    To date, I have really enjoyed the entire series. There are some things I'd wish the writer handled differently, but overall I'm thrilled with getting new SW gap fillers and I definitely look forward to every Friday.

    The most important thing to me is that the writers keep the story consisent and realistic with the movies. I don't want them to mock the movies. An example of this would be if Anakin ever faces Grevious. This cannot happen, as pointed out what is transpired in ROTS.

    Where I'm most concerned is the next episode:

    In my opinion, having Dooku work together with the Anakin and Obi-Wan just makes light of these forces (excuse the pun) are polar opposites (Jedi/Sith).

    "Destroy the Sith, we must."
    "Every single Jedi, including you friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi is now an enemy to the Republic."

    Having them "be together" is almost bad enough, but actually working together is heresy.

    "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count".

    When the line was originally delivered, we all thought Anakin meant back in AOTC, which was 3 years ago. When we watch ROTS now, do we think Anakin is he talking about six months ago? How many more times will Anakin and Dooku meet and fight?

    To make matters more frustrating, the Republic sends Jar Jar to save the day. Jar Jar to save Obi-Wan/Anakin and Dooku?

    I guess we shouldn't rate this episode on the 20 second promo, but I'm worried.
  22. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4
    This would be terrible for a million reasons.
  23. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    To be fair, the Republic didn't send Jar Jar to save the day, they just sent him to deliver the ransom spice to the pirates in what should have been a very controlled situation. For me that's already strange enough...

    And I agree and have mentioned before that having Dooku work together with the Jedi seems like a big mistake. In Ep3 Anakin has such unbridled hatred of Dooku for chopping off his arm, but now we'll see him exchanging some teasing banter whilst working together with the man he should be wanting to jump at the throat of at first sight.
  24. JediLight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4


    Agreed.

    "You're going to pay for all the Jedi you killed today, Dooku"
  25. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Bravo!

    As a mature woman who remembers growing up and watching the "bra-burners" in awe and confusion, I knew I didn't want to be locked into a secretary, teacher or wife role when I grew up. Those seemed to be the options for most women (and fine if that's what YOU wanted to be rather than what you were SUPPOSED to be).

    I remember the acrimony over how ****** Leia was to Han and Luke in ANH - the "usual" response to a woman who dared to speak up (take charge: nah, too aggressive, you name it).

    Now, to be taken seriously, you have to show skin, be sassy, and all that, it seems. Can't we have a mix of attitudes and dress - women and men both? Let's not lock either gender into "that which is good" and that "which is not."

    Now, I do understand this show is aimed at younger viewers. I'm fine with that. But - of course, there's a but.

    You want the women half-dressed and sassy? I'd not mind a shirtless Obi-Wan :D.

    Her dress is just not appropriate for a battlefield. The mall, maybe.

    Seriously, though - clones wear armor, Obi-Wan wears part armor, but Ahsoka struts around in miniskirt and no midriff? C'mon - let's parade the clone troopers around in tank tops and shorts (well, maybe not something I really want to see).

    There needs to be a bit - just a bit, please - of realism here.



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