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Full Series The Clone Wars- Episode 111: Dooku Captured Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by The2ndQuest , Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. Jedi_Soral

    Jedi_Soral Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2008
    I was looking for it too. Apparently, the holidays are delaying the coming from appearing on the actual online reader. It still only has the Grievous story:

    http://www.starwars.com/clonewars/comic/index.html

    But this link appears to have what will be on the reader next week (the entire webcomic appears to be there):

    http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/comics/preview2009.html
     
  2. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    [face_plain]

    Whatever, Rob, what-the-chaos-ever.
     
  3. The_Attackinator

    The_Attackinator Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    No, Robimus is right; you simpy can't act like Tyranus should have been capable of pulling off feats like those seen in The Force Unleashed and the Tartakovsky shorts. And don't say you're not acting like that, because nowhere else have I seen Jedi or Sith able to perform such feats. Nothing like that ever happens in the live-action films, so stop acting like it could and should somehow happen in this TV show. As one user pointed out, Jedi have been trapped and surrounded before, with nothing they could do but wait. You're acting like a Sith Lord is somehow much more powerful than a Jedi. Even if someone could pull off moves like you seem to think Tyranus could have in a situation like that, the only possiblity I can think of would be Yoda, who has insanely fast and powerful abilities on his side, not to mention his short stature. And Yoda can defeat (or at least hold his own against) Tyranus (a Sith Lord!) in combat, and Obi-Wan killed Maul (a Sith!) when he was but an apprentice, so that pretty much blows to bits your theory that a Sith Lord is hands-down more powerful than a Jedi. Dave pointed out in his commentary that characters have limitations, and he (and George, too!) has made it quite clear that the fighting abilities depicted in the Tartakovsky shorts are not to be taken as canon. No one can Force-blast thirty to forty armed pirates, nor cut them all down with a lightsaber, even if you had one. And seeing as the pirates were but ten to twenty feet away from Tyranus, with thirty to forty rifles pointed directly at him, it is pretty much a fact that Tyranus would have gotten shot had he resisted them. I don't care if those guys were the worst shots in the world; at least one would somehow manage to hit him, even if by accident.
     
  4. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Well, I found that to be a pretty weak episode. It had its great moments, but overall the plot was very weak.

    - The whole Anakin capture thing makes no sense whatsoever. First of all it served no purpose, he could have just waltzed into the ship alongside Obi-Wan on a spacesuit (BTW, how did Obi pull that one? Is it THAT easy to infiltrate a military vessel in space?!) Then, it makes no sense that Dooku would capture Anakin, the Chosen One and just leave him sitting on a common cell, along some pirates.

    - Regardless of what someone posted earlier, you CAN have too much banter. In this episode it seemed that every single line out of Obi-Wan's, Anakin's or Ahsoka's mouth was a teasing joke, even when they are facing captured Dooku. It's cool to have some banter to break the tension, if that is all you do, then there is no tension whatsoever. I would have loved some actual DIALOGUE between Anakin and Obi...

    - They did kill the first Gundark, didn't they? That seemed quite cruel to me, Anakin didn's seem threatened at all by the creature (see point above) and then they stone it to death?

    ...and next week's episode doesn't look hopeful at all.
     
  5. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Sure, because you evidently don't read or give two-Sith about the EU.

    I don't begrudge you that, really. It's no biggie. You don't care. Fine. Whatever.

    My fellow Litizen, Rob, should know better. [face_shame_on_you]

    Then again, he does like Revelation. [face_whistling] (Sorry Rob :p)

    And, I have to say, Rob old chum, I'm somewhat offended that you'd just brush over my referencing of Empire: Betrayal.

    And, hell, let's throw in Nomad, too.

    I win.

    Make me ignore Tales of the Jedi, then. Make me ignore Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. Make me ignore Knights of the Old Republic. Make me ignore Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. Make me ignore Star Wars Empire: Betrayal, make me ignore The New Jedi Order, make me ignore Star Wars: Dark Empire, make me ignore Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (even though that was with direct involvement from the "God" Lucas, peace be upon him).

    Make me ignore the whole Expanded Universe.

    This fixation on the Tartakovsky series is really silly, frankly. They're nothing to do with this. I'm not suggesting Dooku be able to throw a Star Destroyer back into the stratosphere, I'm suggesting that he's more powerful than thirty or forty plebs.

    We're talking about thirty plebs. Not a hundred. Not two hundred.

    Thirty (or forty).

    If Obi-Wan Kenobi can escape Grievous, four/three Droidekas and a dozen battle droids in one go - per this very cartoon animation - Dooku can escape thirty-forty pirates. Especially when you recall that *one* droideka would be more than a match for all of them. Consistency is king and consistency has died.

    Alas. :_|

    And, jeez, man, Obi-Wan ended up being *trashed* by Maul in the fight itself (after Maul had already taken out one of the Order's most skilled masters, to boot). Maul was killed because he was an overconfident idiot, not because Obi-Wan Kenobi was on his level. :p (And, come on, I specifically referred to the *average Jedi*. I'm not talking about Obi-Wan or Anakin class folk)

    It's called "Force plot".

    When it comes to this scene with Darth Tyranus... well, Darth
     
  6. WookieeWarrior9

    WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2007
    This is one of my favorite episodes, probably second behind "Destroy Malevolence". Great to see the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship. This was the type of stuff I imagined the series to be- a lot of the two of them getting into traps and flying by on the seat of their pants.

    As much as I hate to admit it, I finally do feel that Ahsoka was an unnecessary addition. I don't hate her or like her, I just feel very indifferent about the character. I don't think she adds anything at all. I hope that my opinion will be changed as the series progresses, and I'll keep an open mind.

    I loved the little reference to Ep III ("Oh! It's you.") when Obi-Wan frees Anakin.
     
  7. CloneCaptainRex

    CloneCaptainRex Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Nononononononono. They didn't kill it, one of them said something like, "Let's get of here before it wakes up."
     
  8. maderic

    maderic Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2004
    I despise almost all of the EU material you mentioned, Ulicus, and I still agree with you. It was hard to believe Dooku would allow himself to be captured by a gathering of absolute nobodies.

    ***

    The writers of this episode are aware that the nest of Gondarks was mentioned in Attack of the Clones, a story that took place before this episode....right?

    Obi-Wan and Anakin fall into two Gondark-related situations? [face_thinking] I already knew this show had a fixation on reusing things (mostly lines; they're terrible with that) from the movies, but that's a little....odd. To put it nicely.
     
  9. Pat Darksider

    Pat Darksider Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2000
    This was the weakest episode yet. The things I liked were the Weequays, of course the lizard monkey, palp´s office and the rendering of the pirate planet...everything else was not convincing and seemed out of place like Dooku´s handling. He was completely out of character and it is a rather bad idea to bring Dooku and Anakin/Obi together face to face that often. Dooku is the man behind the curtain. Nice to see a gundark but the whole cave action bored me to death. The whole episode bored me and I´m sorry to say this...

    Obi´s cruiser infiltration with the space suit reminded me of Mr.Spock in Star Trek I...as mentioned before the intro of this episode could have been better and more locigal.

    A lot of things in this episode don´t feel right and if this is the taste what to expect from future GL inspired episodes it is not my taste.

    I really hope that we´ll see better plots after next weeks episode.



     
  10. SoonerSean

    SoonerSean Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 23, 2007
    If we keep seeing Dooku and Anakin on screen together the whole "my powers have doubled" comment in ROTS is going to become more and more meaningless. I guess obviously for a long series they have to run into each other, but it simply can't be all that often. It's like Anakin and Grievous and their exchange in ROTS - it means we should never see them battling it out in the series b/c clearly (in ROTS) they'd never faced off.

    As for Jar Jar... I thought after ROTS that GL had learned his lesson and pushed this character back to the shadows. He was the focus of one episode, which is fine - let it placate the younger viewers. But now we have him again next week and he's SAVING the Jedi? Please please please... push this guy back into the shadows and don't let him out except maybe once per season.

    Also - in regards to not seeing other characters (members of the council)... in almost every episode so far we've been introduced to new characters or aliens... how can it be so expensive to create a member of the Jedi council, but not too expensive to generate a Gundark or the "pet" in the Grievous' Lair episode? Or the Rodarian or the Watto-esque characters?
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    "And so that would make this-"
    "Exactly. The mother of all Gundarks"
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    Loved the witty banter- I missed having Obi-Wan around. I liked this episode quite a bit-I'd have to say that I don't find Dooku being outgunned in that particular situation to be that far fetched. It's possible he could have gotten out of it, but it would have been close. Even Sith will strategically surrender.


    Also, the full episode guide is up and has some neat details (also, it surprised me that this episode was actually #16, not 13 as I had assumed ;) )- including how there were originally two Kowokian Monkey-Lizards, and that Pikk did pick-pocket Dooku's sabers.
    I
    But the neatest one was: n the original script, the ship that Anakin and Obi-Wan discover in the hangar bay was a Sabaoth starfighter, a vessel from the 2002 Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter videogame. - man! that would have been sweet!

    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/9/90/Sabaoth.JPG]


    I think the thing about Weequay portrayals is that the vast majority of them that we encounter in stories are ones servants to the Hutts, so they wouldn't be the brightest examples of their race, unlike, say, Sora.


    Several SW films have started off with a major event taking place offscreen immediately before the start of the actual story- be it the capturing of the Death Star plans, the start of the Separatists or, most resembling the current situation, Palpatine, of all people, being kidnapping. This really isn't any different.

    Also, the majority of the opening narration clips are old clips from episodes made prior to the one you're watching.
     
  12. The_Attackinator

    The_Attackinator Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Dude, please stop being so sarcastic. Seriously, you don't have to put me down just to make yourself feel (and in your opinion, look) good.

    No more silly than you're fixation with the idea that Dooku could (or would try to) escape at gunpoint, without a lightsaber.

    Actually, they have a lot to do with it, seeing as the kind of abilities and feats you're saying Tyranus is capable of are found in the Tartakovsky shorts. Seriously, the kind of stuff you're talking about happens in that series (which is very exaggerated), so I see no reason to stop mentioning it.

    The droids are exactly that - droids. They lack the creativity and individuality that the forty or so pirates possess, therefore making the pirates more deadly and unpredictable. Plus, it has been previously shown that the droids are clumsy, stupid, and most important of all, bad shots, so Obi-Wan really had no reason to fear them during the encounter. However, at the time of his capture, Tyranus had no idea how skilled and well-trained the pirates the pirates could have been, and due to this, the fact that he was severely outnumbered (outnumbered by flesh-and-bloods!), and the fact that he was without a lightsaber, he did not attempt to fight them. Come on. As the public leader of the CIS, what worse mistake could you make than to underestimate your enemies in an attempt to escape, when you would likely find a more opportune time (and safer circumstance) for escape later on?
     
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The thing is, we have seen powerful Jedi outnumbered and defeated by Muggles before. We saw it on Geonosis, and in Order 66. It was also implied by Qui-Gon's dialogue in TPM. Not to mention there's probably a reason Vader let the stormtroopers handle the defenders of the Tantive IV rather than just doing it himself.

    But, yeah, Bane ( especially orbalisk Bane ) would have annihilated them almost without effort.
     
  14. The_Attackinator

    The_Attackinator Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    My point exactly.
     
  15. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    I don't buy the idea that Dooku had no chance against 30 to 40 pirates. He's a Dark Lord of the Sith and a former Jedi Master. He should've been able to handle them with ease. Of course, there are number of points about how Star Wars works where I think Filloni is simply wrong, so I'm sure that this will only be one of many areas where I think The Clone Wars simply doesn't make sense.
     
  16. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    It's not that he had no chance -- he did have a chance.

    Just not a real good one.
     
  17. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Filloni says that Dooku's death would have been inevitable if he had attempted to kill them.
     
  18. The_Attackinator

    The_Attackinator Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Forgive my ignorance and/or stupidity, but what exactly makes this quote so funny? :confused:
     
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It's partially the delivery, but just the use of that popular phrase (such as the US military's MOAB weapon- "Mother Of All Bombs", or the term "Mother of All ****-Ups", etc). In the context of that latter example, the Gundark scene is downright hilarious.

    It's also kind of amusing that a phrase primarily popularized, as far as I understand it, by Saddam Hussein ("...the mother of all battles") has made it into a "kids cartoon" as such.


    And, i'm sorry- I can only forgive your ignorance or your stupidity, not both.

    ;) [face_batting]
     
  20. The_Attackinator

    The_Attackinator Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Then forgive my stupidity, of course. ;)
     
  21. Super_Battle_Droid

    Super_Battle_Droid Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2002
    What kept Dooku from using a mind trick?
     
  22. DVCPRO-HDeditor

    DVCPRO-HDeditor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Good sense, I would guess. It seems that these pirates are familiar enough with Jedi and the Force to be able to pick their pockets and steal their lightsabers. I would presume that even Tyrannus has limits to his power. He refrained from using Lightning or Mind Trick because this particular band was prepared for any such tactic.

    Oh, and I do seem to recall one comic book story (was it in Tales, perhaps?) wherein Anakin's lightsaber was stolen from his belt by a scantily-clad group of women. It seems like everyone misplaces their laser sword at least once.

    ;)
     
  23. 7Utini4

    7Utini4 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Given the involvement George has in the creation and approval of The Clone Wars, isn't saying that "Filoni is simply wrong" about something in the Star Wars universe tantamount to suggesting that George is wrong about something he created? Just saying.
     
  24. Darth_Neznarf

    Darth_Neznarf Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2008
    WOW, this Douku thing is REALLY bothering people [face_laugh]. Many are gonna feel like jack-asses if it turns out he let himself be captured and is in league with some of them. I really don't think that without a saber he could have taken out all of the pirates without getting hit. There are several far away that are prob pretty good shots, thats how they got the job of pirate. There were more then likely some pirates that we didn't see as well. (I'll bet that in next weeks episode we see MANY more pirates that they have to escape from proving that his opisition was more then it seemed this week) Im sure that he could have taken out many, he certianly could have run fast enough not to be hit by laser blasts and escaped (like Quigon & Obiwan in TPM) but as I said before, he is stranded on a unfamilliar planet without a saber that doesn't look to have any civilazation. Maybe there was, but it wasn't shown to us and by the looks of it it did't have anyplace that he could go to relay a message that he needs help. His only option would be to take the ship by force that brought him or flee to the wilds that we know at least are infested with gundarks. We know that many planets in the SW universe are inhabitable as far as atmosphere but are not inhabited for whatever reason like Hoth. (What if a rebel decided to elude the empire and escape from echo base in ESB. YEA, I GOT AWAY!!! I ELUDED THE EMPIRE AND ESCAPED!!!... Oh, where do I go know??? How do I get outa here??:oops: [face_thinking] [face_praying])

    To make a stand against that much opisition with seemingly nowhere to go and no weapon would be a stupid move. I'm sure that Douku figures that he is talented and smart enough to escape at a later time and go undected, and possibly steal a ship to flee in. In his shoes with his skills would you want to fight at that moment, or wait until a better oppertunity presents itself? He would have a much easier chance escaping from a cell block with some walls for cover on a few sides, wouldn't he? If he could escape at that moment, he could escape later as well. Why run then and have all pirates on alert when he can lull them into a false sence of security and escape when they think he is secured in a cell. Not to mention that OBVIOUSLY Douku has to get away from the Jedi at the end of next weeks episode because he is abord his own ship in ROTS so Douku is up to something!
     
  25. JediLight

    JediLight Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    This Episode started pretty good with the Anakin/Obi-Wan portion and just got worse quickly.

    I think the thing that killed THIS EPISODE for me was watching the preview of the next episode. Come on! Let's watch Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku work together! No thanks. What a letdown.

    Like somebody said before me, "My powers have double sinced the last we met Count"...

    This line is going to become useless since it seems they hang out regularly. I wonder if they have a space opera planned together.

    No more Jar Jar. I'm not even a Jar Jar hater, but his act is so tiresome. I really wish he'd go away from Star Wars.
     
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