Full Series The Clone Wars- Episode 111: Dooku Captured Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I was under the assumtion durring the episode that, because of the fact that Padme and Jar Jar were from Naboo (Palpy's home planet), that their opinions would be valued more than a senator from Dantoine (I know random planet ).

Its just simple politics.

Anyways I thought it was a good episode but a few thoughts.

+ I thought the fan-boys would go nuts when they saw the flying saucer

+ I was wondering what the reaction to the Gundark would be

+ Dooku must be in leauge with the pirates, he could have easly taken down those pirates with a force push

+ That intro was horrible! They showed the duel from the move, yet they bluntly stated that Anakin did NOT have his lightsaber

+ I thought the 'Obi in space suit' would also P.O. fan boys

+ This episode showed that we can have good Ani-Obi relations without (or with very little) Ashoka

+ That being said Ashoka needs to take a long vacation or somthing. She should not have been in that episode at all

+ This episode was very well paced I'm glad

 

The saucer part was great. I think it's the first time we've seen a saucer in Star Wars, which is kind of funny considering it's a sci-fi series. And the beam was icing on the cake.

 

I chalk that up to this being based on a treatment directly from GL. George likes his in-media-res, and it doesn't get much in-media-res-er than that.

On second viewing... the Weequay pirate chief sounds kinda like Count Floyd when telling tall tales about defeating Dooku. It's all "Dr. Tongue's 3-D House of Sith Lords"!

 

Upon another viewing, I'm beginning to think Dooku's surrender was akin to Han's capture in ANH. There are alternatives to fighting. For Dooku, he hoped he wouldn't be recognized and he could just bribe them. He also didn't know that his beacon was destroyed. So perhaps he figured Grievous or Ventress and some droids would drop by or that Kenobi and Skywalker would find him and he could make an escape that way, which would make sense if it were a force sensitive as they could sense him and track him to this other planet. He almost does fight when they initially capture him, but he knew he was outgunned. Not even Yoda took on that many soldiers unarmed and without backup. So Dooku's decision to bide his time is easy enough to believe.

 

Here's a question: what the heck was the point of arranging for Anakin to be captured when it was so easy for Obi-Wan to just sneak on board, anyway? Did that fake capture make any sense at all to any of you guys?

In a separate thread, somebody was talking about how CW is so much better than Pixar and Disney cartoons, and I got to wondering whether, maybe, CW has borrowed a little bit of Disney's fairy dust....

[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/DBrennan3333/Dooku-Jafar-1.jpg]

 

I think it was just the urge to steal an idea from ROTS for whatever reason...

 

Hmm...come to think of it...yeah! What's up with that?

Lucas-logic?


Rechecked the online comic... the only thing I can think of is that it served as a decoy or distraction so Obi can sneak on board. But, that would only make sense if it all happened at the same moment. The way the narrative plays out, Ani battles, gets caught, then imprisioned. Meanwhile, while the Twilight was out of range, Obi waits, then tells Ahsoka to go back to the cruiser so he can sneak on board...easily.

Any other theories, fellas??

(Good point DB)

 

Dooku emphasized to Anakin and Obi-Wan that the pirates were stupid- which is an interesting word to use when he's locked up. He also tells them not to underestimate them, which is kinda weird when he says they're stupid. Probably just playing with their heads, I guess.

With respect to the pirates, I agree it was weird that they were all Weequays, but I noticed at least one Jawa and one Nikto at their grand banquet hall.

 

It's actually very clever and my favorite line in the episode.

Look at it this way:

Only an IDIOT would try to kidnap a Sith Lord and a couple of Jedi. You would just get yourself killed.

What makes the pirates so dangerous is that they're too STUPID to realize that.

 

Yeah, I had mentioned this before. This is the most frustrating piece of plot in this episode, it makes no sense whatsoever. I can't see how Anakin being captured helped them get to Dooku in any way. Obi-Wan simply waltzed into the battleship with no problems, and if anything, freeing Anakin only slowed him down. It's frustrating, because Anakin being captured should be a momentous occasion, and here it's used as a half-baked useless piece of plot that serves no purpose at all.

 

^^^

(Just to clarify, DBrennan was the dude that posted the original statement that was quoted, not me.)

And sorry GS, I haven't had the chance to peruse thru all the messages. But you and DB make a good point. That set up and the "stolen lightsaber" thing with Dooku still confound me.

And I forgot about this too: during one scene, wasn't Anakin scanned for weapons with a metal-detector type thing? Shouldn't it have picked up his hand? I was thinking it should've beeped, so Ani would then take off his glove to expose his metal hand and say, "sorry, can't help it." (and then gives the finger. Not SW...but it would've been an epic moment in kids tv!)

 

I think the webcomic screwed all this up. It looks like the episode as originally produced would have made sense because the implication would be that Anakin's rescue was the tail end of some convoluted plan that we the viewing audience were not privy to.

The webcomic (which would have been made long after this episode was allready in the can and was pretty much an afterthought) shows us this "plan" which as presented makes no sense at all.

 

Good call to whoever mentioned that Anakin's fake capture/subsequent easy rescuse made no sense.

My only guess is that they needed Anakin to be captured in order to locate Dooku. Otherwise, they'd have no idea which ship he is on. So Anakin let's himself get captured, knowing that they would bring him to Dooku(who will turn him to the dark side or kill him). Anakin then reaches out with the force to help Obi-Wan find him.

 

To a lesser degree of outrage, I fully agree with Jedi_Madden. Overall this episode was a failure, and the fact that it's the first one GL pretty much dictated the story, like he went on to do for the following seasons, doesn't bode well for the future of this show. I repeat, the show doesn't have to be DARK, it just have to take itself seriously. That means plot points that actually MAKE SENSE and obstacles that are actually PERILOUS. If most everything happens just because the plot needs it to and every foe is met with a snappy remark, the show loses any gripping power.

The Clone Wars have shown us it can be great, in episodes like Rookies, Duel of the Droids or Shadow of Malevolence, but it needs to EVOLVE from those good examples, not decay from there.

 

Amen! Moving the hand the speed of the lightsaber would make for some deadly Kung-Fu.
Why is GL putting his foot in every episode? I think that if he sits back and lets those who understand storytelling better than he does, it would make for entertainment for all ages.

 

O.K. Last post for this episode.
"Devious, Deceitful, and most of all stupid."
devious
adjective
1 describes people or plans and methods that are dishonest, often in a complicated way, but often also clever and successful:
deceit
noun
(an act of) keeping the truth hidden, especially to get an advantage:
stupid
adjective
1 foolish or unwise; lacking judgment or intelligence:

Hmmm...At first glance it seems that the writer should have chosen more appropriate description for the pirates. (Usually deviousness and deceit require intelligence, pulling the wool over people's eyes requires some brain power...put let us not discuss U.S. politics)

Anyway I just watched Dave Filoni's commentary. It is interesting that the WHOLE thing is dedicated to defending DOOKU's capture. And well, he was struggling to do so. He had to "convince" not only us of the sheer improbability of it all, he had to try to "convince" himself...I don't think he succeeded. He used a poor analogy of Palpatine needing a Death Star to bring planets into submission to say that DOOKU lacked the power to take on the pirates alone. Yeah, he tried his best to defend GL by saying he wanted to be able to have Dooku and the Jedi have dialog w/o being at the tip of a lightsaber...he was seriously grasping at straws. For those who study animation or acting, the body language of Dave F is a dead giveaway that he is definitely uncomfortable playing White House Press Secretary for President Lucas.

 

Yeah, how dare a TV show not be perfect. This is an outrage.

 

I too was confused at the beginning of the episode, with Anakin captured. Had i missed an episode? I thought it was a good episode, but again , i found Dooku's surrender a bit far fetched, with his power. They also managed to get his lightsaber from under his cloak?? The only way i could rationalize it is maybe he had his own reasons for letting them take him away??
The only thing that bothers me about the TCW so far is Anakin (will Ohsoka is a bit much) He's just not the character from the movies.He's a lot more mature than what we see in ROTS.

 

This.

I think we should actually wait and see season 2 and the next episode before we make judgements on George and Jar Jar.

Yes, the arguments that George (ideas, storytelling, etc.) needs fine tuning (in some cases, a lot of it) are valid.
Yes, it is doubtful we will see Jar Jar evolve over the course of the war, hence the angry mobs gathering around the TV to watch his episodes.

But no, it is not indicative of the show's future. Not yet, at least, for the more negative of us. We have no facts or knowledge save the morsels given to us by the crew or our own speculations and opinions. For all we know, George has come up with various good ideas that, paired with the right crew, is being transformed into an awesome episode. What if he makes an episode where the clones seem like Nazis to show the differing views or situations in the show? Or one where a Jedi is kind of a jerk to really show the affects it has on them? Maybe an episode where the Separatists take out a corrupt governor on a planet to show the Republic's corruption.

So yeah. I say it's neutral until proven crappy. We shouldn't let negativity colour our perspectives an unsightly shade of vomit, after all...

 

I just got my computer fixed, and have been itching to get back to the boards.

I think people are being a little harsh on GL. I'm no hardcore apologist or what-have-you, but I think most of the gripes I'm hearing about some of this stuff is less GL more the script writers. Any wholes in the plot or problems in the dialogue probably didn't stem from an outline, but from the script itself. Which, as I understand (if I'm not mistaken), wasn't written by George himself.

I actually liked the episode, if for nothing else for Obi-Wan's presence. I missed having him around. I can take that this arc isn't as serious or dark as the others, as we've been told there will be a variety of episodes, maybe this one is just one of the lighter fluffier ones (as the next one seems to be). I'll take the fluff with the hardcore coolness.

Still, I don't mind some of the things that seem to be the bigger issues. Dooku getting pickpocketed? Sure improbably but that little lizard monkey could be quite crafty and it happened off screen while he was being transported by the pirates (who hadn't sprung the trap yet). Getting captured? Possibly just thinking ahead, he even mentions while talking to Obi-Wan and Ani that he's sure the situation will turn out fine. He's just biding his time. No big deal there.

Apart from that it's the dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan, a little forced, sure but nothing as cringe-worthy as a "Yipee!" I enjoyed the Anakin and Obi-Wan stuff. I needed a dose of it even if it was a little childish. These guys are best buds though, and when I get with my old buddies from way back when we revert to junior high kids. We make stupid jokes, and take jabs at each other. Probably could've been a little better written, I'll concede to that.

What else? Why Anakin had to get captured? The best point I've seen on this was what someone had said earlier. If you don't read the comic you don't get a full explaination. When things happen off screen, I take it as something I don't know. I mean it is something I don't know. But like the Death Star plans on the Tantive, who on their first viewing knew anything about where the plans came from? Bothans? What the heck's a Bothan?! It's something that I haven't been told yet, so I don't need to dwell on it too much. It's a part of a plan to get Dooku, why it's necessary? Not sure, I didn't sit in on the mission briefing. Eh, I guess it just doesn't bother me.

Albeit, I prefer the darker, edgier stuff, but I can take this once in a while. I loved the pirates, thought the smaller saucer ship was cool (the bigger one not so much), Gundark, and Obi-Wan with Anakin again... Not my favorite episode but I certainly wouldn't call it the worst. It was definately better than the movie, and I liked the movie for what it was. I see the complaints, but shoot, try and enjoy it.

 

As I previously stated: Lucas hands in a one-page outline and all the script problems are his fault? Who got the writing credit for the episode? It wasn't George.


Also, I love how Star Wars fans pick and choose their moments to suspend their disbelief, and so far the 2 biggest controversies of Season 1.0 are:

(1) Ahsoka and Anakin jumping onto the Separatist satellite base in Duel of the Droids;

(2) Dooku getting captured by pirates.

Would it have helped if Dooku was surrounded by 5,478 pirates? Would that have been believable for you? Or should it be impossible for any non-Jedi to capture a Sith Lord?



Finally, the way they show Dooku "losing" his lightsabers, on the 2nd viewing, makes it seem like Dooku is playing the pirates.

 

Everybody listen to GARTH MAUL...he talks sense & tends not to wet his knickers over small flaws in a children's cartoon show

 

DOOKU: What do you 5,478 ******** want?