The Clone Wars: Episode 203: Children of the Force Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The2ndQuest, Oct 6, 2009.

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  1. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Is Yularen a moderator as well? ;)
  2. jedi-soon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 2
    I figure he's just boning up on etiquette and protocol in case this whole fleet commander thing goes belly up :D
  3. epithree Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2006
    star 4
    It's quite possible that Anakin was a bit depleted after performing all those acrobatics during the zero-g battle. And perhaps Bane just swiped the holocron off the floor before Ani could force-pull it. Reaction time plays a big role here.
  4. ZEM Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2009
    star 2
    Short "Children of the Force" Review From my blog...

    It is not my favorite out of the episodes so far, but it is not the worst either.

    Things I liked:

    1. Ahsoka versus Bane scenes. I also like how Anakin doesn't correct Ahsoka when she wants revenge, that just fits his style.

    2. How Bane posed as a Jedi.

    3. How Bane escaped - "So long Jedi!"

    4. Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi fighting together to escape.

    5. Anakin and Ahsoka visiting Mustafar.

    6. The scene where Palpatine shuts Ahsoka out of the room. XD

    Things I didn't like:

    1. Sidious' whole slave conditioning surgery plan. (WAY un-Star War-ish)

    2. The Jedi "meditating" to find out what to do. (I never liked that.)

    Things I wasn't sure whether I liked or not:

    I didn't really care for the interrogation scene, because it reminds me of Legacy of the Force, (which I hate) but it is an example of how the Jedi weren't doing things the way they should've - so I like it in a way... Not really sure about that scene...
  5. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    This episode had some cool moments, but overall it felt weaker than the last two.

    The interrogation scene was cool and creepy. I hope they revisit this tactic - it would be very interesting for an episode down the line to address the extent to which the Jedi have been using the Dark Side, setting up an issue of moral equivalency for Anakin and The Turn.

    Loved the Indy-ness of Bane's place - the Holocron sitting on its platform like the Idol, booby-trapped, and the closing door/last-minute grab bit.

    But the best 'easter egg' was Anakin after Bane escaped at the beginning. What a great Vader bit to reference: in TESB it's the point at which Vader actually becomes something of a sympathetic character, so having Anakin do it here makes him Vader-y without really being sinister.

    Now I may be in the minority here, but I'm no fan of the Anakin/Palpatine scenes. At least this early on, I like the series best when it makes me so excited about rooting for the heroes that I FORGET that the good guys are ultimately going to lose. The PT was so full of hints and foreshadowing that it missed out on a lot of opportunities to make us LIKE Anakin as a hero and thus make the inevitable turn all the more heartbreaking.

    The first season of TCW made great strides in fixing that, and aside from this Palpatine scene Season Two has given us an Anakin who is a full-on likable hero. The creepy relationship with Palpatine just doesn't seem to fit with this characterization. TCW Anakin shouldn't have so casually ignored the way Palpatine brushed off Ahsoka. It made him look more like 'Palpatine's mindless thrall' and less like 'good-intentioned hero making a mistake'.
  6. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Speaking of the Indy feel of Bane's lair, did anyone else think he looked like Mola Ram from Temple of Doom when Mace tripped the booby trap?:p
  7. Shadow555 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2005
    star 1
    I've only seen Raiders and Crystal Skull so I wouldn't know. But I will take your word for it.
  8. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon, the Palpy/Ani relationship was pretty well established in AOTC. To be fair, there is more to their interactions than creepy Sith foreshadowing. Palpatine is a father figure to him. Even in ROTS, there was an Old Ben vibe to the way that he treated Anakin.
  9. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    And he doesn't completely ignore her; he looks back at her awkwardly as if he's almost apologizing for her being left out, although it would have been just as awkward if she had been allowed to join them too.
  10. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    LawJedi, the relationship in AotC was creepy as hell. But as with most issues of the prequels, we may just have to agree to disagree.

    I just rewatched the scene, and what bothers me is that there's literally no reason to exclude Ahsoka like that. Their conversation is perfectly mundane, but the way they leave Ahsoka in the dark makes it look much more suspicious than it is. Palpatine of all people would know better than to do that.

    And Ludo, that look you refer to is exactly what I mean when I say the scene makes Anakin seem like 'Palpatine's mindless thrall'. For such a headstrong character to be reduced to such helplessness regarding something as innocuous as a military report (which, given Ahsoka's involvement in the incidents, she has every reason to be a part of) is silly.

    I realize that my personal preference may run counter to Lucas's 'vision', but for me the stronger Anakin is, the more meaningful his eventual fall becomes. If he's pretty much just Palpatine's lackey from start to finish, there's nothing that compelling about him becoming Palpatine's SITH lackey.
  11. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    I hear you, but I actually thought that AOTC Anakin/Palps was very underplayed. In retrospect, I would have liked to see the fatherly, secretive Palps of ROTS, with whom Anakin confides about his wife and the Tusken incident.

    As far as his shunning Ahsoka, I do think it drew attention to Palpatine's thoughts about Ahsoka. Perhaps this is an example of a role that is not the place of a "mere" Padawan. Perhaps he will be responsible for Anakin's failure to train her to completion. Perhaps he finds her to be obstructive to his plans for Anakin. Maybe he just senses that she's a new insertion to continuity. [face_thinking]
  12. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    This was likely my least favorite episode thus far, or at least its right up there with my second least favorite Hostage Crisis.

    Why would Palpatine need to kidnap these Force strong toddlers? To build an army of Darksiders? Sure, I guess maybe...or....as suggested to spy on the Jedi, a Jedi Order I suspect Palpatine had planned to have long destroyed before any of those children saw a 5th birthday. Maybe he was just covering his bases, but the whole senario was convoluted and very un-Palpatine like. He should be subtle, playing a chess game 100 moves in advance. If anything this episoed represents the single worst depiction of him I've ever seen.

    Though I did like the voice actor doing his voice, so props from me for that.:)

    Next, am I really to believe that the Jedi can't find a single intruder within their own temple, but can pin point the next target of Cad Bane half a galaxy away?[face_thinking] This was far beyond my ability to suspend disbelief. This series has become so inconsistent within its self I just can't even believe it.........

    Next, Jedi interrogation techniques..."But we might destroy his mind"......:eek: Since when is putting a prisoner of any kind at the risk of death(I take destroying Bane's mind to mean the same thing) due to an interogation technique acceptable? I admit I don't like the Jedi Order very much, but even I with my slanted view can't say I ever thought the Jedi would stoop to such a technique, especially the Jedi who took part in the act(Obi-Wan and Mace). Clearly the chance of destroying a prisoner's mind should have a moral weight to the Jedi...but it clearly does not. Just like the approving the use of a Clone Army, just like serving as military commanders in a war with no clear villians, the Jedi are lost............

    From a marketing and toy stand point I loved the baby Gungan, Rodian, Cerean and more. In fact they were about the only highlight in this week's episode for me.[face_worried]
  13. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Well... I applaud the courage of anyone who considers two Cad Bane vehicles to be his least favorite episodes. I could never have balls that big. =D=
  14. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I LOVED that little moment between Palpatine and Ahsoka, it subtly conveys some very important things.

    To Palpatine, Ahsoka is a very dangerous obstacle to his corruption of Anakin. Think about it, why did the Council assign Ahsoka to Anakin? So he would eventually learn to let go of his attachment to her. If Anakin ever learned this important lesson of dettachment, Palpatine would lose his angle to turning him to the Dark Side.
  15. ArrogantJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    star 2
    That's a good point, and perhaps later could develop into something interesting with perhaps Palpatine playing a part in her disappearance. Not saying that he somehow secretly personally "deals" with her - although I'm sure there are some Ahsoka haters who would like to see her fry to death :p, but perhaps sets her up in a mission that is doomed to fail and possibly cost her...her life. Will be interesting to see their interactions in the future...
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Said prisoner is a murdering scumbag bounty hunter and the stakes involve the lives of innocent children, so the moral issue here is more complicated than "Jedi mind probe = bad".

    Exactly. What we're seeing in this case is consistency with the PT: Palpatine's scheme forcing the Jedi into questionable actions.
  17. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    So is Palpatine forcing the Jedi into questionable acts? Or does the end justify the means for the Jedi? I'm confused by your dual quotes there.

    There are innocent children all over the galaxy being affected by the war, do the slave children on Tattooine not count to the Jedi.........oh wait thats right the Jedi are allied with the Hutt's so thats OK.;)

    For me its closer to your second quote, in both cases. The Jedi are doing all kinds of things they shouldn't be.

    In fact I think they should round up all the active Confederate Nemiodians, Kaleesh, Muun and more, do the multi-Jedi mind probes on them as well. Maybe some of them will die, but thats OK, no big deal, it would be worth it.

    Someone like San Hill or Nute Gunray has far more blood on their hands than Bane does so there is a lot of oppurtunity for the Jedi to flex their mental muscle:-B .....What, no I'm serious, thats what the Jedi should do. It worked in this episode.

    I know the premise is that Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan were saving the future of the Jedi, but really during a war in which Jedi are few and far between how can the Republic spare its top duo and sidekick to rescue two children?

    Did the Jedi learn that Bane was working for Palaptine? I can't remember, but that would at least work from a prority standpoint, with saving the children being a secondary goal.

    And why don't we have a scene at the end of the episode of the Jedi returning the Babies to their families? What am I to read into that? Am I to assume that the children were returned to their families? Or did those children end up at the Temple for safekeeping?[face_thinking]
  18. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    See, that's exactly what I wish we had more of in the PT films: the Jedi having a very hard time dealing with the war.

    This was shown to excellent effect in Shatterpoint and in the SW:Republic comics, which posited a schism in the Jedi Order, with some Jedi simply leaving the Order and saying "you guys have lost your way."
  19. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I completely agree, but I am trying hard to view this series as it seems to be intended. That is without reference to the rest of the EU.

    So many things in both the films and this series paint the Jedi into a morally grey area, and I'd love to see that schism presented in some form in this series, much as it has been looked at multiple times in the books and comics.
  20. Fistofan55 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2009
    star 3
    I'm suprised no one found it hilarious when Cad Bane said tried to take Wee Dunn before mesmerising Dunn's mother.
    "I going to have to take your child now." while reaching for that huge head. [face_laugh]

    That scene between Ahsoka and Palpatine was really something and I'd like to see scenes like that more often in series. To judge how one character is rude to another just shows more in depth that something is going on(even though we kind of already know what happens).

    I'm under the appression that whatever happened to Ahsoka has something to do with Palpatine (and its not Order 66).
  21. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Maybe he wanted to pat him on the head before taking him, as a way to comfort the tot for his kidnapping..:p Or perhaps pick him up by the head cus baby Rodian did a doodie.[face_laugh]
  22. Fistofan55 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2009
    star 3
    [face_laugh]
  23. masterthon88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 1
    probaly the best episode in season 2, really liked the younglings, still wonder what Yoda referred to as being to late to save the one from Glee allsom, with that many potential Jedi, there could have been no way to slay all of them.
  24. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    He meant the the Nautilan (sp?) infant had already been snatched by Bane... it was the Kit Fisto-looking kid on the Mustafar base. Bane planned on getting the Nautilan, the Rodian, and the Gungan. He grabbed the first before the Jedi had their Force-google session; Obi-Wan barely missed the Rodian; Ahsoka and Anakin captured him while he was trying for the Gungan.
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