The Clone Wars: Episode 203: Children of the Force Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The2ndQuest, Oct 6, 2009.

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  1. Drewton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2009
    star 4
    Again, I don't think it was just the style that was the same thing. I'm not even sure Kevin Kliner made it at all. It seems more copied to me.

    Watch 2:58 to 3:08 of this video. If you have The Dark Knight soundtrack, compare it to 7:47 of "Why So Serious". If not, watch this video.
  2. Chewgumma Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2009
    star 7
    I wonder if you have ever heard of incidental music?
  3. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    You know, watching again, mace wasn't that bad in the trap. Bane stepping out might have started the trap for all he knew. Also hard to believe anakin would really think palpatine needed to know about the list of Jedi children. You start to think he's already almost as loyal to palps as to the Jedi Order. Seeing more of this kinda stuff in the PT would have made Anakin's actions in ROTS more believable
  4. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 3
    Kind of off-topic, but I really wish the guy on TFN reviewing the episodes actually wrote reviews instead of recaps/synopses with little asides interspersed in the main text. We all saw the episode; just write a one paragraph outline of the premise and then detail what was right (and wrong) with each episode.
  5. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Yeah, Windu was pulling a lot of Indiana Jones in that scene too. I just knew they were going to use the "goes back for defining object while door slowly seals" moment as soon as the exit began to close. I was not disappointed.
  6. epithree Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2006
    star 4
    Agreed.
  7. Helmet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    star 5
    From this thread, there are those who live in a world where police interrogation scenes in darkened rooms with blinding lights featuring villians who dress up in disguises to elude their pursuers originated with 2008's The Dark Knight.

    Then of course, there are those who live in reality.
  8. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    Still haven't watched the episode.

    Please, do not ask for pirated material around these boards! - Gry

    My country doesn't broadcast the show. :_|
  9. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Drewton, that was awesome![face_laugh] I've been making comparisons like that since Hostage Crisis.:p And I understand that TDK and CW storylines came at different times, but the similarities are there and you illustrated that so succintly.


    [image=http://www.starwars.com/img/prw/theclonewars/guide/episode203/img31.jpg]

    Aye..aye jus' want muy comm call...

    Although I think Mace should have emerged from the shadows behind Bane, that would have been creepy.

    To the PAM, I think SW.com will be posting a full vid of it tomorrow(I'm looking forward to that myself), but if you live outside the US, it might be difficult.(An online friend I talk to from Hungary says she can't get that where she is apparently.:( ) As for YouTube, if you want the whole episode, don't bother...they have all these people posting only 2/3 of the episode so you'll go to their site.[face_plain]
  10. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    OBJECTION! Well, not so much objection as CLARIFICATION!
    Youtube DOES eventually bring up the full episode, but it happens (at least over here) sometime mid-Sunday, which probably means early Sunday or late Saturday in the west...at least in general.

    After that, it's a week or so of people putting up the full episode and claiming it's the next one.

    I liked this episode quite a bit, though the fast pace was a little odd to me. Then again, they were able to fit in a lot of short, intense moments and brought up a lot of intriguing things (Jedi Interrogation and the various children comes to mind :p). If Cargo of Doom was my favourite ACTION piece, then this would be my favourite SUBTLE piece so far...then again, how subtle can you be when you're making stuff blow up? :p

    Some things I'm noting personally...
    -The Jedi team-up was especially nice
    -All sorts of subtle touches help make this episode shine, from the darker sides of Ahsoka and Anakin to Palpatine sort of turning Ahsoka into a 'third wheel'
    -The children are cute. I'd like to see a Gungan Jedi, as well as an Ewok one. XD
    -A lot of people rightly brought up Palpatine's deliciously eeeeviiiil performance. Ulicus compared him to the Wicked Witch of the West at one point, making me imagine him telling the babies "FLY MY PRETTIES, FLY!"...at least I think that's how the line went.
    -Ahsoka, aside from bring the one to propose Mass Mind Trick, was done pretty well and low key compared to the masters
    -Interesting that Plo Koon is the first fully visible Jedi to appear on the council as a hologram in the series, considering that's how he spent most of his screentime in ROTS. Then again, it'd only matter to a fanboy like myself. [face_laugh]

    And select things which made me happier still...
    -Yularen's opening line. Best. Admiral. Ever.
    -Cad Bane's hypno-disc....ooooo....shiiiiinyyyyy...[face_hypnotized]
  11. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    You are right Koonfan. Someone has posted the full episode by now and I've been able to watch. I really like it, especially the moment where anakin says "it could be a trap" and mace reacts "of course it's a trap, skywalker. Loved the anakin/palpatine interaction. Some people judge that it's too fast paced, but this is ok, really. On second viewing, many of the episode are slower, because you don't get to see anything new.

    To Ludo: I have got the same problem. If you live in Europe (which I do) the video reads a message saying: "this video is only available in certain areas". Bah.

  12. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    Plo can actually already be seen as a hologram in the newsreel for the Hidden Enemy. Also, interesting that they just ignore the council seatings for now and just place obi-wan and kit next to yoda untill they introduce the others. Which they will. shortly. ki-adi-mundi. can't wait.
  13. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Yes, as I mentioned before, those things on TF.N are about the worst "reviews" I can imagine...
  14. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, I get that when I want to watch vids from like in the UK and stuff...and koonfan, you only have to look at the scroll menu beside the video you're watching to see what I'm talking about...but I'm glad you were able to see it, FistoFan.[face_peace]

    I agree, that's why I need to see a second full viewing to get that.
  15. The_Wick Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2009
    On its own, Children of the Force actually isn't too bad an episode, a mix of the awkwardness of the first season and the increased confidence of last week's episodes. But it's an unsatisfying conclusion to a story arc that casts a shadow on the previous two episodes.

    I thought the missing Holocron, which contained the names of all known force-sensitive children in the galaxy, would be the main story thread for the entire season. It certainly piqued my interest and imagination more than even the best of this show's previous episodes, and I thought it would give the show more focus and, well, drama. Whether this story could run a whole season or not, Children of the Force packs at least several episodes of content into 22 minutes.

    There's a lot of nice little moments, including an awesome Indiana Jones reference, but the main story is rushed, unfocused, incomplete. Also, after some bold decisions in taking this show down darker paths, the quick, painless resolution to Sidious's plan seemed designed specifically to not upset young children or make parents uncomfortable...which would be OK if this show wasn't in large part about a character who becomes a mass murderer of men, women, and children.
  16. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I don't understand why people thought this episode was "unfocused". If anything, it was one of the most tightly focused episodes we've seen to date, and the pacing reminded me of the 2nd half of ROTS (which is a good thing).

    I guess I sorta agree the conclusion seemed somewhat anti-climactic, but they (a) had to have Bane get away, and (b) couldn't really shoe-horn in Dooku, Ventress or Grievous as another villain to fight.

    As I said before, I think this plot of Sidious' was hidden from his allies.


    And given the 22-minute nature of the show, I think a three-part story arc for the Holocron was enough. Let's move on to some other characters and adventures. :)
  17. Chewgumma Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2009
    star 7
    I just feel that every plot point consisted of fleeting moments that could have been, and in some cases should have been, expanded upon to make for a more satisfying episode and a better conclusion to a very well made story arc. Of course keeping in mind the time limitations of the show that would mean that COTF would have needed to be split up into two episodes, or made into a feature length episode (Which I doubt CN would have grumbled about.).
  18. The_Attackinator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2008
    star 1
    Chewgumma, have you ever heard of plagiarism? There have already been plenty of other examples of likely Kiner rip-offs I and other forum members (from this forum and another, a film music forum I frequent) have found, the most obvious being his direct copy of an entire, long segment from Kilar's Dracula score. We know what we're talking about; if you seek additional examples, I'd be more than happy to show you. :)
  19. MvG-88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1
    Ah finally got around watching the first three episodes.

    The most notable difference to the previous season is how they have all the character models. So far we've had Mace in a major role and both Kit Fisto, Plo Koon and Aayla Secura in cameo roles. It really adds to the show and makes it feel less constrained (plus it pleases fans of the "odd" Jedi such as myself).

    It seems to be wrestling with the same pacing problems as before though. 20 minutes is not nearly enough! I know it's not going to change anytime soon (and by soon I mean at all), but it really is one of the biggest things bringing the show down! This latest episode really suffered from trying to sort out too many things too fast before it got on with the plot.

    I can't really decide if I like Cad Ban or not. On one hand he does not give the same amount of respect as the other villains have done before him, he's suffering a little from the same thing Grievous had last season. But on the other hand, he's been pretty capable so far, it's gonna be interesting to see how he evolves.

    As long as he doesn't evolve too regularly, we have at least two other excellent henchmen, don't forget about them!

    Also, I was kind of expecting uniform changes and hair growth. Mostly because it's cool but also because it's a sleek way to mark the transition into a new season. I was under the impression that the Jedi armor was going to be gradually phased out, I guess it's not the time to start yet.. They could at least have let Ashoka keep her long sleeve, no-cleavage shirt :confused:
  20. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I can't stand those comparisons with The Dark Knight. I mean, look at the production numbers. Ever since Hostage Crisis I couldn't believe that it was a rip-off of TDK. The movie was released on 2008 summer, and at that time many episodes were ready.
  21. Chewgumma Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2009
    star 7
    You could level the same critisism at John Williams' OT score. Just go listen to numerous classical pieces, most notably The Planets Suite. Whole passages are borrowed and put into Star Wars' soundtrack. Where there is a debate there,the case of TDK and TCW is purely coincidental.
  22. The_Attackinator Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2008
    star 1
    Coincidental? :eek: No. It's not. Ask anyone else; even film music aficionados I've talked to about this have all agreed that Kiner is blatantly ripping off others' work. John Williams' original Star Wars score does make references to The Planets, as well as to The Rite of Spring, both works which I'm quite familiar with as I'm a huge classical music fan. But those works are old, and are now public domain. The Dark Knight score, and the Dracula score, are not. Their composer's are still living, and would no doubt take great offense to Kiner's usage of their music without ANY credit given. It was obvious that Williams' was going to turn to classical works for his score; George Lucas told him to. I highly doubt Dave Finoli would say, 'Hey, Kevin, we need you to rip off some modern film scores for The Clone Wars show." Once again, I tell you, even if this somehow were coincidence, I have several other examples of plagiarism in TCW to back up my point. For instance, in Dooku Captured, in the bar scene, that exotic music that plays in the background is a real-life Indian song, confirmed by an Indian person I know. The music in Downfall of a Droid that plays during the space battle is a huge rip-off of Kilar's Dracula score. And if that's not good enough, I'll even give you the exact seconds of the music so you can see for yourself.
  23. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 3
    Were they public domain at the time? There were only 64 years between Stravinsky's premiere of The Rite of Spring and SW in 1977, and only 59 years between Holst's Planets suite premiering and SW. To put that in today's terms, that'd be like cribbing from film scores from 1945 and 1950 (say, The Lost Weekend and Sunset Blvd).
  24. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Wow... even though I didn't like what I heard about this episode before I saw it, it totally kicked ass.

    Season two is rocking hard! I loved all three episodes and i.m.o. it's already better than season 1.

    I love how we finally get a bad guy who wins a lot. I just love how Bane outsmarts all the 'more powerful' guys.

    Fantastic stuff. Feels a lot better than season 1 where only the good guys were winning and I was feeling bad for Grievous all the time, haha.
  25. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    I totally hear what you're hearing, and its starting to bug me. I wish that, when these issues were discussed on these public forums, the guys who work on the show would show up to defend or explain Kiner. It's basically three strikes now, and there's been no explanation.
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