The Clone Wars: Episode 204: Senate Spy Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Oct 13, 2009.

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  1. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    This cannot happen before the Malvolence Arc. Someone earlier said that by doing that it could place this episode the time of confusion following the Battle of Geonosis.

    The fact that this episode leads into the Geonosis Arc puts a stop to such speculation.
    I highly doubt that an entire new droid foundry could be built on a Republic occupied world in such a short time. Why would two Geonosis campaigns be so close together if the CIS abandoned the planet shortly after the first invasion?
  2. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6

    Yeah, but he should be saying "Confederacy", not "Republic", and it would still make sense, because Sidious controls both sides.


    With respect to the Geonosis arc, is it possible we'll see the Origin of General Grievous?
  3. Darth_Calgmoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2006
    star 2
    I doubt that all that talk about switching the episode back and forth the timeline is going to work, or does anybody believe that Ahsoka is not going to appear during the episodes regarding the droid factory on Geonosis? And even if it would be, it is simply bad writing if the audience needs a strange guy with stupid hat to explain in a 3 minute commentary how the story works.

    The whole feeling of this episode is, as if there is actually not yet a Clone War [but of course, that can't be, as Padmé and Anakin are already married]. Padmé and Clovis are talking about Neimoidian 'trade consessions', while some of them (Nute Gunray for sure) might being involved in actually attacking Republican worlds (and not only blockading them, as they used to).

    If this episode was supposed to be set before all the other episodes, then, for God's sake, the people who are making it, should have incorporated the fact into the episode itself in a way the audience can understand it. And if in that episode should have been introduced the fact that some corporations, that are the backbone of the 'Separatist Alliance' are able to hide that fact from the public and are able to remain still (in a way) within the Republic, then that fact should have been actually introduced in that episode. But that did not happen.

    Oh, and of course, the corparations did not need to maintain within the Republic for fear of being dissolved by it. With their headquarters being on CIS worlds, they are without the reach of Republic jurisdiction.
  4. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Possible? Who knows? I hope not, personally. Some things are better left a mystery.
  5. Fistofan55 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2009
    star 3
    That is a great thought Garth. It would be interesting to see maybe some design layouts of Grievous's parts on computer or something(Alot like Chapter 23-25).
  6. MaStEr JiMmY PaGe *ZoSo* Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2000
    star 1
    This character based episode was a nice change of pace from the recent Bane Quadrology (last season's finale + this season's three-part opener) and usual Jedi versus Battledroid fare. For me, the Anakin and Padme interplay was much more entertaining from what as shown in AOTC's meadow and ROTS hairbush scenes. The inclusion of the ROTS concept Bridge World put it over the top.
  7. brainwash Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2009
    star 1
    I liked that Rush Cloviss wasn't such a bad guy, his heart made his character a a nice change of pace in a villain.

    But that ending, man, well played, TCW!
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I wish we got to see more of the bridge world, I thought it was a really cool design.
  9. bluesaber70 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2007
    star 2
    I really didn't like this one. Rush Clovis was supposed to be a baddy and did little. He didn't even get angry at Anakin. I was let down.
  10. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    The fact that Clovis wasn't all bad set up the great ending where Anakin left him to die.
  11. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I have to agree with brainwash here - I was fully expecting Clovis to turn traitor at the end, so seeing the expected villain play the role of a man with some sense of honor (albeit not in politics) was a little surprising. Not really a plot twist, but at least different from what was expected.
  12. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    I finally got to see it, overall it was a fairly decent episode. I was expecting a bunch of the usual Ani/Padme mush, but I was completely surprised how they played it; the banter between Anakin and Padme at the beginning was actaully funny. Oh, and I liked how she fired back at him with his 'duty comes first' line during their argument in the Senate Chamber, that was pretty funny.

    Hmmm, Clovis...didn't get much of a bad guy vibe from him, more like the old flame out to get some more action one more time type and the way Padme played it and how jealous Anakin got, very well done. Lott Dodd on the other hand, villainous Neimodian slime just as I expected him to be, I'm surprised he was still allowed to be in the Senate for all this time. Well, I guess not anymore!:p

    And I like the backdrops in this: Padme's apartment, Cato Neimodia, the production team did a really fine job bringing the vibrance of these locations to life. Now, as for the mission itself, I think Padme afforded herself well, even she couldn't see what was coming with the poisoned drink and I think Clovis acted appropriately in response to Dodd's deed, although I like how Anakin left him in the lerch at the end...so Anakin.:p

    And I thought it was creepy that Clovis used 'Padme' as his password for the hologram disk:p

    Anyway, great lead in to the next episode coming up..sucks we have to wait two weeks buut...
  13. Mekairinek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 1
    Tell me about it. Dad and I looked at each other after that scene and we both went "Eewwwwwww!" :p

    So, do we know when this episode takes place for sure? I know they said that it'd jump around the timeline this season, but after reading a lot of these comments, I'm so very confused.
  14. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    I've lost track of the timelines that I don't even bother to really try and figure it all out...let some continuity expert do that headache while I'll enjoy the show every week.
  15. DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2008
    star 2
    Exactly how I feel.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Taken by itself, people have speculated it could be set before the Malevolence Trilogy to rectify the continuity error regarding the IBC and Padme's comments.

    However, people have been saying this episode is tied to the next episode or two- so we may have to wai till this story arc is completed before that suggestion can be fully evaluated.

    However, Pablo said in the other thread that starwars.com will be posting the official epsidoe order sometime this season as we begin to into the episodes that jump around the timeline, so we won't know, officially, until then.

    Mind you, the "SS before MT" suggestion only exists to correct the IBC contradiction. If it's chalked up as an outright error (in either episode), then the official episode order may not account for it at all in regards to chronological order.
  17. Brisi_Wine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009

    Personally the earlier Banking clan line doesn't bother me. Perhaps her thinking is that not everyone in the banking clan thinks the separtist way, and that her old friend might be a way to bring them back on to the side of the republic.

    Padme is constantly in favor of "letting diplomacy resume" and probably holds out hope of this in terms of peace with the Separtists. My thinking is that there are probably people in the trade federation that are opposed to Gunray, and there are probably people in the Banking Clan that dislike and disagree with San Hill. Padme's attempts at "second chances" would be centered around these types. Surely her old friend would be one of them, but sadly this is proven to not be the case.

    I really liked the episode.

  18. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Re-watched this. It's not that it's so bad, just that it's so pointless.

    The whole TF thing still doesn't make sense, although I noticed Padme says "I believe in second chances" to Senator (still!) Dodd, so maybe they're explaining it away with that line.

    There's no way this happens right after AOTC - in the voiceover intro, the narrator says Anakin is just returning from a long stint commanding one of the clone armies.


    There's also no way the Banking Clan is neutral, although I can't remember if that's what the argument was about. Dodd says they were loaning money in exchange for part of the droid foundry
    on Geonosis.


    The start of the episode was pretty good. Coruscant looked great and Padme's apartment was spot on.

    Kinda inconsistent though - I think Padme first says the Naboo Ambassador dropped off some 7-spice cake, then she says she baked it (?):confused:


    Finally, can we confirm Anakin was acting like a jerk on purpose to convince Padme to go to Cato Neimoidia? The first time I watched it, that's what I assumed he was doing, but this time around, his expression never changes, and it seems he definitely doesn't like the idea of her spying.


    Also, still a bad line when Padme is surprised Clovis is accused of working with the Separatists - why else would Master Yoda request that you spy on him? Padme is not young and naive. ;)
  19. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    My take on it is that it's not the spying that's the issue--he's just threatened by the thought of her hooking back up with Clovis. Hence why he leaves the poor guy to die in the end: one less competitor for Padme's affections.

    Anakin's ego was threatened throughout the entire episode.
  20. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    No, I get that. But the Council told Anakin they wanted Padme to spy and that she had already refused, so why go and bug her about it? I thought this was Anakin doing his duty, whether he liked it or not.


    Also, I noticed what I assume was some intentional Vader-like phrasing by Matt Lanter in this one. [face_devil]
  21. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    The way it seemed to me, when I was watching it, was that Anakin didn't want her to go, but if he didn't meet with her, Obi-wan would be on his case (and Obi-wan already notices something going on between them... though depending on the EU source, Obi-wan's awareness of the Anakin-Padme thing is very debatable). So he went to see her because he had to, made the obligatory request, she repeated her refusal, and then he was relieved and so started getting a few more details just in case for the next person to end up stuck with this mission. I don't think Anakin was acting like a jerk to trick her into going, I think he was just being his normal obsessive/protective self, which backfired when Padme agreed, partially out of spite (and duty of course). Although I still can't believe that she didn't know why the Jedi wanted her to spy on him earlier. What happened earlier, they asked her, she got outraged, then she walked out? Seems really stupid not to mention the reason for the spy mission.
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Nah, just sloppy writing. [face_peace]
  23. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Depends how you define "right after." Days? Weeks? Months? Anakin has his scar, and his hair is longer. So it's not like it takes place the next day. But I suspect it takes place closer to the events of AOTC than the other episodes.

    According to Dave, they claim neutrality, but they are really criminals. I don't think there was any question that they were allied with the Separatists (from the perspective of the fans).



    She says she received some kind of bread and then went on to say that it is her specialty. I figure she is referring to when she makes it. Regardless, I agree it's an awkward sentence. If someone gave me a loaf of raisin bread, it would be weird to say "someone gave me some raisin bread, my specialty."
  24. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    And yet I insist that we have tons of examples of arms supplied by them to the CIS, and none whatsoever to the Republic. Kinda wrecks the "profiting from both sides" concept.
  25. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I had just edited down that whole section of my post, right before you posted.

    Anyway, there's really no doubt that they are assisting the Separatists. That's why Dave calls them criminals. Dave says they are neutral "that just so happen to supply arms to both sides." Regardless of who they are supplying arms to, I get the impression that supplying arms to ANY side is a break in the neutrality. They might have been allowed to maintain relations with civilian corporations on either side, but even if they were supplying arms to the Republic, supplying arms to the Separatists would still be treason.

    Even if you could point to a weapon that the Trade Federation was selling to the Republic, that wouldn't make selling arms to the CIS okay.
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