Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 204: Senate Spy Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Exactly, Switzerland is neutral. To do that it doesn't go supplying anybody with military hardware...

 

I'm okay with the politics. The thing that kept bugging me was how nearly all the "extras" in this episode were so obviously recycled from previous episodes. I mean, isn't it a little odd that Mar Tuuk has ten sons who all live at Lot Dod's house?

 

Yeah, it's a tricky thing. At first I thought it was cool that senator Chuchi was in Hostage Crisis. Now her and others walking in the background of Senate Spy just reeks of model recycling. Well, at least it makes sense to see those usual suspects hanging around the senate, but Mar Tuuk's faulty clones really hit the nail on the head in showing that these aren't characters, but just character models.

What is worse? An episode void of background characters, or one with cloned ones? (and I don't mean real clones)

 

Yeah, I'm pretty resigned to that happening.

They simply don't have the budget to go all out with the locations/character models.

 

I thought it was fairly obvious.

The Trade Federation is setting up an army of Mar Tuuks to battle the Republic. There's a reason both sides agreed to call it the Clone Wars, after all. Besides, Mar Tuuks work better than battle droids.

They last longer, too.

 

And now we finally have a retcon for Pellaeon's fighting unstable clones...

 

Well in AOTC we saw recycled characters roaming the background of the Jedi Temple for instance the recycled Coleman Trebor and Pablo-Jill models roaming the Temple. Shaak Ti sitting in the background of the archives. Aayla roaming around in the background. There's supposed to be 10,000 Jedi and we keep seeing the same handful roaming around. In Holocron Heist, aside from "Ord Enisence" and Jocasta Nu, recycled characters Kit, Aayla, and Luminara were used to make the Temple look more populated. The case of seeing Chuchi wandering around the backgrounds isn't any more odd to me. She could plausibly be in all those locations just as the recycled Jedi could plausibly be in the Temple.

However, the recycled Mar Tuuk models used to represent more than one character don't make sense, I agree. They should make a model of a generic Neimoidian guard (like those in ROTS) to fill in those roles, rather than "cloning" a pre-established character, especially one that figured prominently in an episode.

 

The only good thing that comes from reusing the models -- or, more specifically, reusing the characters, since I'm assuming the Chuchi we keep seeing all the time is the real deal -- is that it reminds the casual viewer that these characters are still around. If this show's going to reach 100 episodes, normal viewers might forget or confuse characters after a while (kind of like when you read a long-running comic book series and start to forget who did what). Seeing the characters pop up in the background every so often enforces their roles a little more.


Of course, us hard-core fans don't really need this, since we spend 24/7 arguing over every detail of every character...

 

Yes, but it would greatly help in breathing some life into these models if they uttered a line or two in their appearances. Their capacity as lifeless CGI extras become much more evident when they fail to express themselves. But then it is cost-prohibitive to hire the voice actor to come and only do a single line of dialogue, which is why why Kit only smiles, Luminara only walks by and Chuchi just stands there.

 

I'm pretty sure we see Chairman Cho's back as well, before Padme and Anakin go into the main senate. It sure looked like him in his hat from behind.

When we see Talz strutting around the Jedi Temple they will have gone too far. Unless its that Jedi from the old cartoon.

 

I think that Clovis is really dumb because telling Padme to go to Cato Neimodia made him and Senator Tod To lose the Hologram

 

I thought it was weird the Nemoidians didn't remember Padme from AotC, I figured she'd be public enemy #3 to them after that.

I didn't even notice the model recycling on my first viewing of the episode, but it was really minor, less than Hostage Crisis which was a nice touch for the astute viewers. Uncle Ono was a lot more blatant, and they even walked by him and blew him off.

 

Uncle Ono was a lot more blatant, and they even walked by him and blew him off.

To be fair though, he never bothered to speak either. Perhaps that's an unwritten rule of the Senate - don't stop to say hello or you'll be there all day.

 

Can somebody tell me why there wasnt an episode this friday?

 

New episodes resume on November 6th, so as not to disrupt Halloween programming.

At least the blu ray will be out on tuesday, so that should fill the gap.

 

In hostage crisis, there were so many background characters that the viewer has no idea who they are. Alot of the senators shown in that episode were new models. Seeing the same models again being thrown around is just plain lazy. Filoni has stated they can now add multiple new characters per episode (as seen in the later episodes of season 1). Even just changing colors of the clothes and skin color, or adding in one or two differences doesnt cost too much, and if it does then you shouldnt be doing a SW show to begin with. SW is known for having a lot of background characters. Using the same ones over and over is an uber fail not to mention unrealistic in universe.

Between a jedi temple thats empty with the same 5/12 council members, mar tuuk clones walking around Cato Neimodia and having the same senators walking behind ani and padme in Senate Spy, its pretty pathetic. When Kit fisto, Aayla secura and Luminara are used as "extras" in the background, thats when you've hit a new low.

 

I really don't see what the big issue is. Only hardcore fans will notice minutiae like this. Isn't story what's important?

Honestly, you'd think they decided to make the episode using sock-puppets.

 

Uh...

Raise your hand if you're not a hardcore fan who notices minutae in the episodes!

 

Sure, but the show is meant for a much broader audience than that.

It reminds me of this piece of dialogue from the Poochie episode of The Simpsons:

 

Sure it's meant for a much broader audience. But that broader audience is not hanging around here in the Jedi Council forums discussing the episodes, us hardcore fans are.

Just because some pre-school kid or bored housewife wouldn't care about such issues, does it mean I shouldn't care either?

And regarding your most excellent quote, at the time of AOTC's release, there were many fans bothered about the fact that Padmé uses the same button on her ship to both forward Obi-Wan's call to the Council and to bring up the map to Geonosis. We're weird like that...

 

Yes, I don't think it's too problematic that they've reused some characters in the background, that's just a function of the way the show's made and it's probably an aspect that will improve over time.

Animation has often reused things - like when they have the same backgrounds running past over and over again in old cartoons. Even in the Star Wars films there were reused characters - like that one bloke in Mos Eisley who manages to get in the background of most of the shots. I wouldn't be too bothered about characters like Kit and Aayla being reused either, since it seems more worthwhile to have them than new characters who then don't end up doing anything. The kids watching especially will like to see those characters that they recognise and it'll probably make the whole series hold together better for them. Characters like Kit and Aayla were pretty much in the background of the films most of the time as well - it's only in TCW that they've been given more to do with action of their own being seen on screen.

 

Pretty much, yeah. If the target audience (which really isn't composed of pre-schoolers and housewives) don't care, why should we?

Besides all of which, the complaint just seems to suggest a fundamental misunderstanding of the realities of producing an animated TV show. As CaptainYossarian touched on, The Flintstones would never have even been produced if shortcuts (e.g. looped backgrounds) were vetoed. It's either this or nothing, basically -- Lucas isn't running a charity.

Ha! I'd never even noticed.

 

thanks lol i was searching like crazy

 

Yeah, seriously, I realize the hardcore love attention to detail, but to criticise the team for restrictions placed upon them for budget reasons is harsh in the extreme. That Simpsons quote is spot on. It's a wonder some people can enjoy anything

 

Personally, I always thought that fandoms tend to define themselves by how much self-inflicted suffering they go through.
Transformers, Marvel Animation, DC Animation, Star Wars...just about anything with a sizable universe and fan base will eventually crop up fans like that. Heck, some wikis for some shows actually point out errors, both animation-wise and continuity-wise.

Of course, to be fair, there's a difference between genuine budgetary restrictions and sloppy editing/writing, and the show has sometimes shown signs of both. How do you think we have the phrase 'Monkey Lizard did it'?