Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 207: Legacy of Terror Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

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Well. And you should see the tattoos...




Ed/ Yeah, there's a problem with rendering scale throughout the series.
That, and Mr. Lucas just likes his butts.

 

Uh, yeah. Ever hear of the Roman Empire?

 

I thought this was another really strong episode tonight, though it would have fit wat better on Halloween

I really liked the animation first off(still except for Ki-Adi). The sandstorms were so well done and the catacomb battle had me at times forgetting that this show was computer animated.

Obi-Wan makes a nice little continuity nod mentioning how they wouldn't want to retake Geonosis a third time. I'm glad that got tossed in.

The zombie Geonosians and Hive Queen were really well done, worms and everything. I also thought Obi-Wan's character was nearly perfect in this one, always calm, always in control.

Great episode.

 

I liked the episode the first time, and really liked it the second. I like that they're exploring a little bit of the Geonosian culture, going beneath the surface as it were.

My only complaint is with the awful promos on Cartoon Network. I thought last week's "don't forget your big spray" promo was lame, but this week's "keep this worm out of your nose" promo was worse.

 

I think that was pretty obvious.

What continuity nod?

As for the episode:

I really liked it. Much for the jokes that were awsome.

"Come now, the nose or the ear, which do you think it will enter?"

"Study the bottom of my boot!"

And at least the "zombie" thing as a natural explanation. Not that I don't mind unnatural things, but zombies don't belong to Star Wars for me.

 

The more I see of the Geonosis arc, the more I'm impressed with what we have.
They are REALLY delivering with the achievements they've got, putting out action, atmosphere, and whatnot. Three episodes into it, and each one generally has its own flavour that makes it unique.

Now, as for the episode...yes, I liked it immensely. I was IMMENSELY impressed with how well 'zombies' translated into TCW, and they really used the lighting and soundtrack really well. I swear, if I watch this in a dark room, audio cranked up, all by myself, I might end up screaming like a TIE-fighter. XD

The plot was pretty good as a one-off horror thing, too. Lair of Grievous had that Haunted House vibe...this had that grotesque zombie air. The parasites were unsettling, but that's how it should be, right? And is it just me, or are they coming out of...Geonosis-apples?

As many have noted, the characters were done very well, or at least had great lines. Obi-Wan and Anakin's banter was awesome, and Luminara is also standing out on her own. I absolutely loved the exchanges between all three of them when Obi-Wan was 'examining' the parasite.

I don't think Obi-Wan was necessarily being cold towards Luminara...I thought it was pretty much a stalling tactic, mostly, like his ploy against General Loathsom. As to addressing a ruling monarch of the planet...I dunno. Would you trust a zombie queen that's producing unnatural hive mind zombies to possess a legitimate rule? Or are these Geonosians in their 'natural' state? XD

"You challenge MY rule? Behold! Do you not have NOSTRILS by which I can take over your brains? THERE is your proof that MY rule is divinely inspired!"

 

I actually liked Obi-Wan in this episode, he truly felt like the old Ben I grew to love as a kid; the banter between him and Anakin and the somewhat playful way he waited until the worm was put on poor Luminara's head...I knew from the first it was all a part of his plan, he would truly never let her get in danger like that and I think she knew that too, but the way her and Anakin played was great! He played it well almost to the point of being sadistic but when he yelled for Cody, I knew it was showtime.

One little thing: Luminara must have some pretty impressive binocs to be able to see a munitions crate from 150 klicks away. Unless I heard her wrong or a klick isn't as far as I thought it was(it's equal to a kilometer, isn't it? )

Someone asked as to how the worms got on board Ahsoka and Barriss' ship...methinks it involves said munitions crate.

 

Pros:
- MORE BUGS!!!
- ZOMBIES!!!
- A Newsreel without "Anakin Skywalker and his Padawan Ahsoka"
- More Cody screen time
- Those mind control worms, disgusting but cool.
- Lots of jokes.

Cons:
- Karina, I don't really like her, to be honest. She doesn't sound like a Geonosian, and I don't really think that speaking in Basic would fit, I think it would've been cooler for her to speak Geonosian.
- R.I.P. Buzz. (Yes, I'm going to do this with every secondary Clone that dies.)
- A sandstorm. Yeah, how many times has that been done before?

Comments:
- I think this is the first time I saw a landed version of the frigate version of the Consular cruiser.
- Now it's up to the guys at Lucasfilm to decide how Poggle and Wat Tambor escapes.
- OM-5, was it supposed to be OOM-5 or something?
- Luminara's goggles = LOL (Yes, I laugh at random things for no reason. Deal with it.)

Even though it was just infantry fights, it was still pretty cool: 9/10.

Well, here comes two weeks of boredom.

 

Yeah, that was embarrassing to watch.

Of course, my dad found it ridiculously funny and watched it over and over again. Silly dad.

 

I wasn't expecting much from this episode.. big zombie bugs.. but I did end up liking it more than the last one.

-I watched this in the dark, and it was actually a little creepy. Brains worms and zombies and a dark old-tribal shrine place, kind of reminded me of Metroid Prime. Now why didn't they show this episode for Halloween?!

-It was a little odd Luminara suddenly gets more risk-taking, but it was for something important. Maybe it's more about her willing to sacrifice herself than about taking risks.

-Well-written dialogue! Obi-Wan to Anakin, "You think with your lightsaber". And Obi-Wan: "I want to see how it works, Anakin." "I don't think Luminara wants to know how it works." "No, I don't!" "Hmmm. You think it'll be the ears or the nose?"

-I liked Obi-Wan, surprisingly, not letting Anakin rush in with his lightsaber, and show the more negotiating side of a Jedi, as well as a curious/scientist side to himself we haven't seen before (or seen much of).

-Poor abandoned droid in the desert.. They're really going for 'deafeatist' attitude with the droids.

-I don't think Obi-Wan was putting Luminara in unecessary danger, they did act before any worms got to her. Stalling, part of the plan and all that.. but it was funny.

-The queen was.. eerie, stupid, funny. What exactly was Poggle doing down there? Recruting zombie minions?

I only saw a bit of the preview for the next episode. I guess that's Brain Invaders? Well, it makes sense that parasites that bring back the dead wouldn't die easily. But I'm not looking forward to more Bariss and Ahsoka, I'm ready for an episode without Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luminara and the Padawans.

 

I'm confused. I don't remember seeing any sandstorms in the movies or in any other episodes of the show? (Sure, one was mentioned in TPM, but it was hardly an important part of the movie.) Are sandstorms overused in the EU, or something?

I thought it was cool.

 

In addition to the heat storms, Ryloth had some sort of sandstorm in a few EU comics. I still didn't like the sandstorm on Geonosis. I did like how it made the episode slow down a bit, but moreover, I think the designers and animators wanted to show what they can do. Sandstorms are sometimes overused in the SW galaxy.

 

To paraphrase Anakin: "All things considered, that went better than I expected."

A surprisingly strong episode, in spite of its problems. The explanation for the zombies was quite clever and fitting the setting, a powerful bug queen that keeps the dead operational through a hive mind.

Visually this episode was stunning. The sandstorm was amazing, the lighting in the tunnels was very creepy and those vistas of numerous capital ships landed across the wasteland were just beautiful (and to answer someone's question, we did see a Consular cruiser landed in the series before. Well, not so much landed as crash-landed in Jedi Crash). The animation was top-notch as well.

Kudos for the writing. We had some very good dialogue and the witty banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan really worked this time (I still shudder from the memories of Dooku Captured). Script-wise, I really liked that they took some time to establish some continuity between episodes. It was nice to see Ahsoka and Barriss leave Geonosis, so often some characters just drop off the face of the earth between episodes without any explanation. Ki-Adi's inclusion was also welcome, tying the whole Geonosis arc together in a much more satisfactory way. The bacta mention was great, though Obi-Wan should have said something about taking a dunk as well, wasn't he the more injured one?

My one big problem in this episode was with Karina the Great. Still hate the name, now loathe the look and dispise the voice-work. I understand them wanting to make a homage to Aliens, but this went way beyond a homage to rip-off territory. The queen's design was WAY too similar to the alien queen, from the tip of her long egg-laying expanded body to the top of her bony crown-plate. And then she opens her mouth and, besides her alien-queen-rip-off-shriek, speaks in a broken english. Oh my... is the use of subtitles in a kids show really a criminal offence? She could have sounded so cool with some creepy variation of the geonosian clicking-burping language. And if they needed to spell out the facts in english, they should just have used a zombie-Buzz to relay the queen's thoughts. That would have actually been really cool and creepy.

 

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Kari-na! Kali ma!

 

Standing on its own, this was a weak spot in the plot. Why would this Geonosian luminary
go speeding off to an isolated breeding temple with a couple of droids and a dozen munitions
crates? It could be explained in Episode 208, but it would have been better to have Obi-Wan
or Anakin ask why Poggle the Lesser chose that specific place to hide, at least as a more
effective lead-in.

For that matter, why didn't Poggle fly away when he and his Jedi captors were blown out of the
temple's catacombs? Instead, he stands tamely behind Obi-Wan, fluttering his unshackled wings
until Kenobi can manage to secure him again. Is Poggle unable to fly, or do they need him for #208?

Note: From profile, didn't the Geonosian queen look a little like Gore, General Grievous's late pet?

 

Yes, Poggle's role in this episode really did reek of weak plotting. His only purpose was to lure the Jedi to that temple so we could have some zombie action. Nothing more than that. The zombies didn't look like much of an army that Poggle would be raising there to mount a counter-offensive (and if that was the case, they should have mentioned it).

Oh, and I really liked the little scene between the two battle droids. Some good dialogue that made me feel quite sympathetic for them.

 

Those crates...could it be possible that the worms/eggs or whatnot were inside? That was a thought I had when watching the preview for the next episode. I mean what other reason would there be for Poggle to be down there? And why would Karina need munitions in the first place, her minions can't be killed. Just some thoughts...

 

I agree with everything you wrote. Poggle the Lesser goes from respected and feared
Separatist military kingpin, to bumbling plot-stooge, leaving a trail in the sand that
leads to his not-so-remote hideaway. No doubt, he was planning to lead the vast Geonosian
counter-offensive with, what, two droids and some small arms ammunition? Ah, but then his
master stroke... conscript the undead! I really didn't want to go there, but the plot
seemed to be pointing that way.

Now we know why he's called the Lesser.


Ed/ Poor plot development aside, I'm sure #208 will sort it out.

 

Poggle had no purpose in the episode. I liked how he was mentioned by name, but his appearance weakened the plot. His capture was plain weak as well.

 

Uh, yeah. More than one country.

[wiki] The term empire derives from the Latin imperium. Politically, an empire is a geographically extensive group of states and peoples (ethnic groups) united and ruled either by a monarch (emperor, empress) or an oligarchy. Geopolitically, the term empire has denoted very different, territorially-extreme states ? at the strong end, the extensive Spanish Empire (16th c.) and the British Empire (19th c.), at the weak end, the Holy Roman Empire (8th c.?19th c.), in its Medieval and early-modern forms, and the Byzantine Empire (15th c.), that was a direct continuation of the Roman Empire, that, in its final century of existence, was more a city-state than a territorial empire.



I just assumed Poggle was hiding. What was in the munition boxes? Didn't really matter. I'm trying not to nitpick these episodes anymore unless it's a glaring error.

I didn't mind the overt homages to Aliens & Temple of Doom, but I thought the voice work for Karina was laughably bad. They ruin the eerie mood as soon as she opens her mouth.


Again, have to defend Obi-Wan. I thought this was some of the purest Obi-Wan we've seen, both in voice work by Taylor and with the dialogue.


It's going to be cool next episode if Barriss & Ahsoka become undead.

 

Two things:

1. I'm glad I'm not the only one who got an Indiana Jones vibe from this episode. I liked it.

2. I'm ok with the fact that Poggle's actions aren't explained. First, it's the whole 'being shown a situation that we don't entirely understand' thing that Lucas likes to do...and I like it. It gives us the sense that these cultures are real and there's more to them than we think. Lots happening below the surface that we might never know about. Second, maybe the reason will be explained later. I'm ok with waiting and seeing.

 

Anyone else noticing that they are messing up on Geonosis' appearance? For instance, I keep seeing the planet's asteriod ring tilted up 90 degrees, than what it looked like in older material such as AOTC. You might say that they are showing the planet at a different angle, but I don't think so.

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This image shows Geonosis through a hologram, but no ring is shown.

 

Why is that such a ludicrous concept? There is no gravity in space, ergo there is no up and down or single way to approach a planet. I think that is grumbling for the sake of grumbling.

 

I have to agree. They don't have to always show the planet "north side up". And why would they incorporate the ring in a hologram that is supposed to help them understand the geography of the land? That's like complaining about the absence of the Moon in a globe of the Earth.

 

The undead Geonosians sure scared Chewbecca, mwuahaha. I got the Aliens vibe all over again --- look at the crest on the queen. Nose worms? Facehuggers!
I just found out Karina was voiced by a man. I didn't notice. Did she say "Geonosia" instead of "Geonosis"?

I suppose if the episode had been longer it would have had a more conclusive conclusion, but that's what next episode is for. The linear arcs in this series as of late please me.