The Clone Wars: Episode 207: Legacy of Terror Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The2ndQuest, Nov 18, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Yee_Moh Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Luminara could have easily seen Poggle enter the temple in a sandstorm if she was using infrared vision. She was wearing some funky-looking goggles while in pursuit, which for all we know were infrared-capable. (Boy do we take this kind of stuff way too seriously... ;) )
  2. adamclark83 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2009
    star 2
    When Luminara is speaking to Obi-Wan and she is overrun by the Geonosians, is it only seen via hologram?
  3. Bly Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 4
    Just realized---we never got any names for the two troopers who Cody sent to the surface. I'm now dubbing them Hudson and Hicks. Or maybe Crowe and Wierzbowski.:p
  4. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Luminara could be Ripley(although not as badass), Anakin could be Hicks and in that scene with the Queen Obi-Wan certainly acted liked Bishop from Aliens 3...you could almost find any similarity between this episode and the Aliens films.
  5. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    Really enjoyed this episode. The Geonosian storyline has been excellent.

    -I think dating back to her initial appearance last season in Cloak of Deception, Luminara has been a standout character on the show. The character just seems to have "it" whenever she's on-screen and I like the voice work.

    -Speaking of excellent, the banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan. It gets more and more entertaining and well-written every time.

    -Dug the whole zombie thing, which was creepy and pulled off well. An aspect of The Clone Wars I enjoy is the producers embracing other movies and genres, so to speak. The zombie thing this week, the use of Notorious as a basis for Senate Spy, and even taking one of the most famous shots from The Longest Day and working it into the Landing episode.

    -The sandstorm itself was very well-done. It really gave the impression of a smothering, unbreathable enviroment and they pulled that off incredily well.

    -Queen Karina was just plain bizarre. Don't know what to say about that one.

    -So, Poggle is another Seperatist leader who gets captured only to escape for ROTS?

    -Luminara seemed a lot tougher without a lightsaber and in binders than Anakin did last season when he lost his lightsaber.
  6. Badger_Legion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2008
    star 1
    True, but we don't know the extent of the alien queen's territory, so... what's the problem with calling it an empire exactly?
  7. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The term "empire" usually implies (political) control over a number of nation states on a planetary level, or a number of planets on a galactic level.

    Technically, it wouldn't really be an "empire", because presumably Geonosis is a one species planet.


    Yes, the British Empire started with 1 nation, but at its height, it controlled something like 1/3 of the nation. Ditto the Roman Empire.


    Anyway, the Anakin-Obi-Wan banter might have been the best we've ever heard, including the films.=D=
  8. Brisi_Wine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    The word empire can mean whatever the character wants it to mean. There's no law that says an empire must contain at least one entire planet, or whatever. A homeless man can say that his cardboard box is his empire. Is he wrong? Point of view.

    I liked the queen, actually. I saw her as another in the line of very odd star wars characters...in terms of TCW, following the likes of Loathsom, the Lurmen, Gore, etc. Perhaps rather stranger than those characters, but enjoyable anyway. It oddly reminded me of a Guillermo Del Toro creature, voice included.

    I love that Filoni, Lucas, and company are brave enough to put a creature that weird on TV.

    BTW- Can Kyle be on every roundtable? The Weapons Factory discussion was incredible. They're always great, but this one was particularly good I thought.
  9. Badger_Legion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2008
    star 1
    I don't see why we should assume Geonosis is just one big country. Humans can have more than one country per-planet, why can't alien species?
  10. darth-amedda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2003
    star 4
    What about Chinese, Japanese or Russian Empire then?

    For example, Catherine II the Great (and 'Yekaterina' even sounds similar to 'Karina') has been usually called 'Empress of Russia'.
  11. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    Maybe there are multiple Geonosian Queens (I hope so, or Skywalker and Obi-Wan just committed Xenocide)? And maybe Karina rules over some of those other queens?
  12. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    It is one species, but each hive is more less independent, aside from their loyalty tot eh Archduke.
  13. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    I'm surprised it took this long for this topic to come up. If that was THE queen, and they basically killed her, then the Geonosians are going to go extinct. And the heroes seemed awfully cavalier about their potential genocide! I assume but don't know for sure that there are other queens, but based on what Obi-Wan said, he doesn't know for sure, either, which is weird: he was keen on studying the brain worm, but whatever with the progenitor of the entire species, bury her or crush her, whatever. (Xenocide is a good reference, though... Hegemon and the Hive Queen, eh?)

    Queen speaking Basic(ish): plotwise, she almost had to, for better or worse. Because hey, if they had subtitled her for the benefit of the viewers, that still wouldn't explain how any of the Jedi or clones could understand her... at least I don't think we have any indication that any of those characters speak or understand Geonosian. (The upthread idea of her communicating via zombie clone is excellent, IMO, but the writers either just didn't think of that or viewed it as over the gross-out line).

    My kids, who usually watch every episode multiple times, were pretty freaked out by this one and I bet they won't watch it much in the future.

    I'm sure this was intended as a Halloween episode (it was even mentioned as such in one of the preview interviews), but got pushed because at least two of the earlier episodes were Bane-centric eason 1 eps that got moved forward to Season Two to keep BaneMania alive.

    Am I sensing more fan love than I would have expected for the Barriss-Ahsoka duo? Hope so. I like it.

    And I love seeing the Jedi as a kind of "Old Boys' Club": seems like the past few episodes have had Ki-Adi, Luminara, Obi-Wan, and Anakin doing a lot of eye-rolling about each others' quirks while clearly respecting each other all the same. Beats the hell out of those stodgy counsel chamber scenes from years gone by.
  14. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
    Poggle may have the rank of Archduke, yet he could also have other titles, or more general epithets that simply relate to his high status. So he could be Archduke Poggle the Lesser but perhaps he is also known as the 'Lord of Geonosis' or Lord of his specific hive, which is just another way of saying he's the leader. Poggle was also described as a 'warlord' in the opening of Weapons Factory. I would think that maybe battle droids refer to all leaders as sir and perhaps the Separatists just think it's easier that way. The droids tend to speak to people in a military capacity though, so maybe they just use the blanket term of 'sir' to refer to their commanders as military leaders, even if they do have other ranks.



    Perhaps it will transpire that Palpatine knows he needs to have the Separatist leaders assembled before the big attack on Coruscant and so he facilitates the escape/rescue of those imprisoned leaders at some point before Ep III.
  15. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    The Ender's Game reference also made me reconsider some earlier episodes... is this the first time we have confirmation that the Geonosians have a hive mind? And, if so, does that make killing individual Geonosians more like fighting the Formics in Ender's Game - e.g. that individual deaths of soldiers/drones don't really matter as they are merely an extension of the overall hive mind?
  16. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Another disapointing episode...especially since we know this show is capable of so much more than such an obvious rip-off of Aliens. The beauty of this show is when they "knock-off" a movie it usually feels inspired by it, not a direct rip-off. The fact that there was only one "A" storyline in this episode (no "B" subplot) didn't help the episode either because it failed to mask that this was basically a rip off of Aliens without, like some previous TCW episodes, it's own distinction to it.

    Also, there were sooo many plot holes in the episode I find myself hoping this whole Genonosis arc would be over and done with. Thank the maker we are going into space next week with the mind worms and away from Geonosis. I had such high hopes for the Geonosis arc, too, as far as learning more about that culture and what happened to the planet after AOTC. And is anyone else sick of hearing Obi-wan complain about the growing frequency of battles in the war? We got it, you made this point several times already in previous episodes! At least they caught Poggle, though I have a bad feeling he will soon be escaping if the rumors of the prison break episode are true. Personally, I would like to see some closure to these characters and I worry that at the end of this series we will be back where we started. I say, kill off Poggle at some point or something! (sorry, can't remember if he was on Mustafar for the Vader/Federation massacre or not).

    Anyway, among the problems I had with this show or rather the questions it raised is a) where did this Queen come from? Why have we not heard of her before? Why aren't all Geonosisians infected? I'll admit the hive mind could work and is interesting, but there's no lead up to it or sign of it until now. And B) why was Poggle going to her? That one's an easy fix... in the next episode it could be explained that Poggle's "plan B" is to infect the Republic clones with mind hunters, so he seeks out the Queen for help with this. But I fear the show won't work in that explanation.

    Speaking of Poggle, I'm glad, like I said, that the Jedi captured him... but he sure didn't put up much of a fight to get away!!... especially in the tunnel escape where the rocks were falling down... that would have been a perfect chance for him to flee capture. I guess my point is I didn't really buy it because he just went along with them too easy when he had opportunities to escape. It wasn't realistic.

    The Queen herself was poorly written, though, in my opinion, especially when she started flipping out at Obi-wan and did that cheesy villain spaz attack thing. It was like a bad Boss Nass impression or something. I hope you know the part I'm talking about because I don't remember the specific line Obi-wan said that preceeded it.

    The one thing I did like about this episode was Anakin. He really had a couple of great lines that saved otherwise boring dialogue. One was "you're not going to talk to her, are you?!" and the other was "study the bottom of my boot!"

    Here's hoping next week is as good as it looks! Can't wait to see more of the inside of the Alderaan space cruiser or whatever it's actually called.
  17. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    That whole bit with Luminara really "bugged" me, too. Did they actually see his speeder parked outside the temple? I thought that was Luminara and the clones' speeders. Would Poggle be so dumb to leave his parked outside? And what was up with him carrying the munitions boxes? It seemed like a lame excuse for him to drop one so the writers had an easy way to track him. Maybe if they had explained that it was something for the queen, rather than leaving it up to the audience to infer that. This show has a bad tread of doing that... not explaining little things that expose themselves to plot holes or sloppy writing.

    And if this episode was changed to include a sandstorm that doesn't excuse them from script errors that now occur because scenes were written before said sandstorm. That's what continuity editos, writers, editors, directors, and other people that work in post are for... to find adn fix that stuff. It's like this is SW for Force's sake! Not some mom and pop cartoon run out of a basement.
  18. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    Hey, that would render the "great kill-count controversy" of LAPR somewhat moot; the Geonosians being killed essentially ARE droids (more in the mould of the TPM droids with the remote control ship, even).

    But it leaves us with the new potential problem of casual Jedi Xenocide.

    So the queen also seems to produce the brain worms (her "children"), which are distinct from the Geonosian larvae in the eggs (see the preproduction sketches on the Episode Guide). Sure, okay. And also, Geonosian young are cared for by the undead. So it's not a total knockoff of the biology from ALIEN(S)... it's got some twists.

    Mixed bag, but a better mixed bag than your average S1 episode.
  19. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    It's certainly possible to approach it from that angle, but I'm not sure that is correct.

    They are fighting the Genosians, and bringing the Temple down is their best tactic to ensure their survival and the enemy combatants (this may be where views differ on "enemy" or "civilians") death.

    In this context, I don't see genocide/xenocide.

    (BTW: anyone else think of Xanatos when they read xenocide? Xanocide?)
  20. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    I agree it was the best thing to do in the situation. It was more how nobody seemed to much care about the possible consequences afterwards... they were kind of flip about it, really. But the war is escalating and its taking its psychological toll on the Jedi... that seems to be a theme this season. So okay.
  21. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I remember seeing one of those shots multiple times in the season trailer. Too bad the actual shot didn't do anything, but yeah, it was cool to see.

    Unless she'd already birthed the next queen and it's growing up somewhere else. Though do succeeding queens usually get cared for by the current queen before it dies? How does that work in the insect world, typically?
  22. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
  23. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Cue, the scene from Aliens where Bishop is torn in half by the hidden queen. I always thought that Aliens and Star Wars could go together. The queen is in the ammo crate.

    Or maybe, the queen is still in the parasite worm form, and it infects Barriss?
  24. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Only just got around to watching this episode, and, hm, not really one of my favorite episodes. Not that it was a bad one, just that zombies aren't really my thing (neither are monster movies, like Aliens, actually). And there were a few problems with the plot, like how pointless Poggle was- he was essentially running to his mommy to hide? You'd think he'd be running for some secret bunker or escape ship or something.

    I was hoping that those crates were some sort of offering to some last resort zombie monster or something Poggle was going to try and use against the Republic, not Poggle just running for it as Seperatists usually do, and it was mainly so there was a clue for Luminara to pick up on. At least she was still fighting even without her lightsaber.

    The animation was awesome though, I just wish they had brought those flamethrowers (from a few episodes ago) along. Part of what makes a zombie movie entertaining is how the living try to take out the zombies. Like in Deathtroopers, they only had normal blasters for the entire book, so it was pretty boring. Here, the clone troopers can't really do much either, except shoot out support pillars, but at least the Jedi and their lightsabers can literally cut a zombie to pieces. Too bad people in Star Wars don't really use stuff like shotguns or chainsaws (though lightsabers will do) or even just machineguns, anything with high impact. Really creepy imagery though, if not all that original. I almost wish the queen hadn't spoken Basic, but then, not sure if any of the heroes have shown that they would've understood Geonosian. Still wish they would bother to have subtitles for Poggle though, the endless chirps get annoying.

    Poor Luminara, she gets dragged around and then Obi-wan almost lets her become the first guinea pig for Geonosian brain worm (or whatever its called). Nice that Obi-wan tried to pry more info out of the queen, but then again, its probably good that the future Empire didn't get its hands on a zombie worm.

    The Obi-wan and Anakin banter was pretty good though, and at least not all of the troops were killed. I was half expecting them to bring along some random clone commander instead of Cody so that it would end up with only the Jedi and Poggle escaping (like during that General Grievous episode). Just wonder if those troops will cause trouble in the next episode or not. Though speaking of continuity, nice to see Ahsoka and Bariss head off to recover, instead of how Obi-wan wasn't in the Weapons Factory episode with barely a mention. Also nice to see those Acclamators and the bridge instead of another Venator, and how Obi-wan said this was the second time they took Geonosis (hope there's not third time).

    This episode would've been perfect for Halloween, but it was still a pretty good one, and even the zombie explanation wasn't too crazy (parasites controlling the corpses). Although I won't mind seeing the conclusion to the Geonosis arc (though don't care for more zombies, but I'm ready for the story to move on from Geonosis) when it comes, just too bad it'll be a few more weeks until then. That's not the last new episode for this year, though, right?
  25. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Well, it turns out we're all right & wrong about the term "empire", although I'm still more right than you:

    Empire defined

    An empire is a State with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture[3] ? unlike a federation, an extensive State voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples. As a State, an empire might be either territorial or a hegemony, wherein the empire?s sphere of influence dominates the lesser state(s) via divide and conquer tactics, i.e. ?the enemy of my enemy is my friend?, (cf. superpower, hyperpower).

    What physically and politically constitutes an empire is variously defined; it might be a State effecting imperial policies, or a political structure, or a State whose ruler assumes the title of ?Emperor?, thus re-denominating the State (country) as an ?Empire?, despite having no additional territory or hegemony, e.g. the Central African Empire or the Korean Empire (proclaimed in 1897 when Korea, far from gaining new territory, was on the verge of being annexed by Japan). The terrestrial empire?s maritime analogue is the thalassocracy, an empire comprehending islands and coasts to its terrestrial homeland, e.g. the Athenian-dominated Delian League.

    Unlike a homogeneous nation-state, a heterogeneous (multi-ethnic) colonial empire usually has no common tongue, thus, a lingua franca is most important to governing (administratively, culturally, militarily) to establish imperial unity. To wit, the Macedonians imposed Greek as their unifying, imperial language, yet most of their subject populations continued speaking Aramaic, the lingua franca of the previous, Persian Empire, overlord. The Romans successfully imposed Latin upon Western continental Europe, but less successfully in Britain and in Western Asia; in the Middle East, the Arab Empire established politico-cultural unity via language and religion; the Spanish Empire established Spanish in most all of the American continent, but less so in Paraguay and in the Philippines; the British Empire established itself with English in northern North America; much of the former Russian Empire still uses Russian as a means of inter-ethnic communication.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.