Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 210: The Deserter Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Another good episode.

-Grievous riding a Reek was brilliant! I only wish they would have devoted some of this episode's time to show how he "domesticated" the Reek.

-The Droids' batteries running out might go against continuity, but it was a nice touch.

-Finally an AT-TE manages to take down a missile. They've been shot down way too easily in the past.

-Cut should have mentioned how he was not the children's biological father, how he found his wife and children having no father and how he felt it was his duty to help them. That would hint he still goes by a programming to a certain extent. His wife helped him to change his loyalties from the Republic's frontline to caring for her and her children. It just felt this issue was oversimplified for time/ target audience reasons. It just raises the question why any Clone can't just go from loyal "slave" to free-thinking individual.

-Obi Wan's frustration after eagerly hunting Grievous was nice. Maybe Anakin influenced Obi Wan a bit for a change.

 

Argh! That banner is burning me eyes!
Anyways, I just looked on Wook to see that the cute twi'lek kids were not Cut's. Either way, I like the episode. I'm a sucker for stories about 'realistic' families. But the girl has a dress that looks more suited for the late 1800s.

 

What makes the whole father/adoption issue even stranger is that if Cut had only been with them for a few months, why on earth would a 5 and a 6 year old consider him there father to the extent that they obviously do? They act like he is somebody who has always been there for them, not some random dude that came to their house.

 

That is weird. The question is what happened to the kids biological father?

Also since Clones age twice as fast as normal humans do, they wont be having him around as long as they wished.


PS: Nice signature, that is a great movie

"Its to bad she wont live, but then again who does?"

 

I'm curious as to how Cut knows about commando droids.
He says his gunship was shot down following Geonosis, but Commando droids seem to be still relatively new weapons. How does he know what they are?

The droids themselves confuse me. Do they attack indiscriminately? Was their intent to kill the Twilek kids? Or was it a result of them malfunctioning, altering their target priorities, as well as giving them their zombie like movements?

 

But we haven't seen any Jedi say "Ah, screw 'em, they're just clones".
Well, Vos and Kota both actively dislike and distrust clones. But they aren't in the show.

Thinking about it more, jedi are supposed to be detachted. They try to save lives, but they don't let death distract them from what is going on.
Still, those jedi on Geonosis were redshirts too. No one cares about redshirts, be they clones, droids or jedi.

It just raises the question why any Clone can't just go from loyal "slave" to free-thinking individual.
I don't know...isn't that kind of assuming that any "free-thinker" would instantly desert/turn traitor. Even without genetic tampering and life long brainwashing, loyalty is still a strong concept amongst humans, and has made many people go against their own moral compass for people and causes they don't even like.

Not to mention, I think the conversation hinted pretty strongly that Rex is, at least on some level, beyond his rpogramming, but still chooses to serve the Republic, because everything he has seen in the war (like, say, the CIS fire bombing cute twilek kids on Ryloth) has convinced him that the Republic is good and that the CIS is evil.
Similarly, think of Waxer and Boil. They are pretty good example of how Jedi compassion and idealism is starting to rub off on the Clones.
Oviously not enough to stop the Clones from becoming ruthless stormtroopers later on....

Now there is a thought...can you imagine Waxer and Boil being stormtroopers?

 

Here's a thought. What would happen if there was an episode where the clones were faced with seperatists who were in the war for idealistic purposes? A planet that chose to gain independence from the republic by siding with the droids. They aren't evil or programmed, but they fight for what they believe in.

It would be interesting to see Clones that are upholding Republic ideals facing off against revolutionaries who point out the Republic's flaws.

 

Overall quite a nice episode, with nice pacing, great character moments and beautiful atmosphere. However:

- I hate it that we have another clone traitor/deserter without much explanation as to how he's able to break his programming. These guys are supposed to be genetically modified to be completely loyal to the Republic, obeying any order without question. And yet Slick turned traitor simply because he grew tired of being a slave to the Jedi, and now Cut deserted simply because his squad was wiped out and he suddenly felt the war was pointless. Come on! These are good reasons for a NORMAL soldier to change his mind, but for a clone we need a little more than that, and the show has so far failed to supply us with a decent scenario why such things would happen.

- Commando Droids. As much as I love them, I think they were really misused here. What were they doing, why would COMMANDO droids decide to stage a zombie attack on a little harmless homestead? Don't these elite special ops droid have anything better to do? To use them in such capacity cheapens them. Oh, and it was rather strange that Cut would know what a Commando Droid is, considering he's been out of the war from the very beginning.

- Really liked the design of shirtless Rex. Nice to have that in an episode that was generating such uproar about skimpily dressed women.

- Rather disappointed that the kids aren't Cut's legitimate hybrid chidlren with Su. NOT because adopted children are worthless (God, talk about over-reacting), but because it would simply be cool to see some half-humans in the show. I could easily buy that they inherited Cut's accelerated growth. Plus, they simply looked a bit odd, with the kid's human-tone skin and the girl's weird blotched skin.

 

I would love that.

I would also like to see a planet in thrall to Dooku's cause because of his alleged "charisma" and "idealism"... a population that buys into the cause because of the personality. We really only see Dooku in Sith Lord "muwhahahaha!" mode, so it would be nice to see some of his persuasive powers. Get some heroes behind enemy lines where the civilian population thinks of them as the enemy, evil colonialists or something. New territory for Jedi and clones alike.

(Actually one of my dream episodes would have Shaak Ti and Ahsoka going "undercover" in a Togruta population that sides with the Separatists for some semi-legitimate reason. Or something analogous that puts the shoe on the other foot. Frankly, I just want to see at least one episode devoted to Separatist civilians.)

 

Perfect use for The two of them. Togruta's are very adept at moving quickly through crowded areas, being a very social species.

 

The Commando Droids were simply onboard Grievous's ship and escaped in a pod. It wasn't a pre-meditated attack, just a fluke based on where they landed. They even were deactivated until the kids mucked around the pod.

 

(1) Commando Droids - I think Robimus is right - they are deactivated until the kids power them up, and even then, with the sparks flying, I think we're supposed to assume they are malfunctioning and simply attacking anything that moves.

Cut knowing about them I expect is simply a plot error.

(2) Kids calling him Dad - we're told that TCW jumps around in chronology - but even if Cut is only there for 6 months, I can tell you in my experience as a family law lawyer, kids get very used to mixed families and new connections, particularly if they are stable and beneficial to them. They could get used to calling Cut "Daddy" in 6 months, believe me.

Yeah, the timing is obviously a little tight, but I think they're taking "chronological licence" to make a nice episode about a "family man" clone.

(3) Cut's motivation - yeah, I'm assuming his character motivation was probably in the original script and was cut due to time restraints, but that's a shame. They could have spent less time on Grievous and the malfunctioning droids, but oh well....

(4) Clones rebelling - Gry - I think (and this is something that DBrennan would have a huge problem with) we're seeing Filoni (and quite possibly Lucas) re-imagining the clones to a certain extent.

Is it unlikely for clones to rebel? Yes. But keep in mind, survival is the first priority of any living being, and add in the fact that they were cloned from the fiercest bounty hunter in the galaxy, and some rebellion is possible. In fact, you'd think it would be "ARC Trooper" clones like Rex who would be more likely to rebel.

 

Well, the humans in the SW galaxy, aren't from Earth. And yes, all things on Earth are related. But so are all humans (if they are "compatible") in the SW galaxy. Whether from Corellia or not. All the humans in SW must've started in one spot and spread out. My point is that we could look at many humanoid races (or near-humans as it were) as having a common ancester, and possibly having similar chemistries and the same number of chromosomes. My point is that obviously a wookie couldn't mate with a human, but a Twi'lek might just be close enough to have at least some sort of strange offspring.

This of course, would have to ignore any EU sources disputing such things. And I'm not suggesting they were Cut's biological kids. I'm just saying I wouldn't be so dead set against it being possible, if we're looking at the films as the only source material.

 

Another thing that was interesting in this episode was the rivalry between Kenobi and GG, that according to Kenobi existed before the episode began. So far the two have only met once before, and it wasn?t for very long. It seams natural to me that when taking this and the fatherhood stuff into consideration, we should assume that this episodes is placed a lot later in the timeline then all the other episodes so far, even though DF probably didn?t intend it to be so.

 

Regarding the children, The Twileks come in alot of different colors and the sons is not unususal. the Daughter though may have a skin condition similar to conditions like vitiligo were their are patches of skin that lack pigment, it can effect people of any race but is more noticeable on people with darker skin tones.

 

I just thought... a Jedi traitor/spy working undercover would be AWESOME to see on the show! Don't care if they did it in the comics already... it's not like it's the most original idea anyway so i would love to see it on the show.

 

He's probably been watching the 'newsreels'. Seriously though, he might keep up with what's going on with the war. He may have deserted from the army and may not have loyalty to the Republic but he may still be interested with what's happening concerning his brothers. Or he may be concerned to know if the war is reaching Saleucami yet. So it could be that either Republic or Separatist news/propaganda could have mentioned commando droids for different purposes.

The commando droids may not have been operating properly but perhaps they attacked the house because they had come down in an escape pod and thus considered that they were in potentially hostile territory. Perhaps their programming tells them to establish a defensive position and await further orders. Or they could have been trying to kill anyone who knew they were there to stop them reporting their position. Then once they identified that there were hostile elements present, they definitely had to continue the attack.


And concerning the children, they may not be Cut's biological offspring but they may still only be half Twi'lek. It is unknown who their father was - he could be Twi'lek, human, or another humanoid species.


Is it unlikely for clones to rebel? Yes. But keep in mind, survival is the first priority of any living being, and add in the fact that they were cloned from the fiercest bounty hunter in the galaxy, and some rebellion is possible.

The clones had been bred to be identical and were conditioned to remain loyal and follow orders. However, there were subtle differences in their personalities with some being more independent. They may have been born the same but the longer they live, the more different they become and the more personality they develop (like droids that are not given memory wipes). So different experiences affect the clones in different ways, and that gets more extreme as they develop more personality.

If an already susceptible clone had a traumatic experience it may cause a break in their mental conditioning. Cut may have been more sensitive than most and when he suffered mental trauma it caused him to have a freak out, as it were. He was loyal to the Republic but he also couldn't continue fighting, so the conflict in his mind caused him to run away. Then, the longer he was away the more he came to realise that he couldn't go back, both because he didn't want to and because he was a deserter from his more fanatical brothers. So he stayed away and began living a normal life as that side of his personality became most prominent.

 

I just realized something.

Cut & Sew... muha

It's spelled Suu, but still. That's not coincidence.

 

Just noticed this: Shaeeah, Cut and Suu's "daughter", was voiced by Nikka Futterman, who voices Ventress. Probably her first "appearance" on the show this season!

 

The clones are supposed to be docile. Docile means:

1 : easily taught
2 : easily led or managed

It doesn't mean they are programmed and it doesn't mean they can't learn. In some ways, the Jedi are teaching them that they're individuals who can think for themselves. So if they are easily taught and easily led, Cut is basically following this dogma the Jedi have introduced into their lives.

 

AOTC outright says the clone are completely obedient.
I can only amuse that there is a glitch-mistake, or the Kaminoians are just talking up their clones, but a mistake seems likely, they are messing with DNA, they are bound to be mistakes.

 

Kinda like a used-car salesman telling you that the lemon he's trying to sell you is "built like a tank"?

 

"Just show me the CloneFax!"