The Clone Wars: Episode 213: Voyage of Temptation Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Feb 3, 2010.

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  1. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    When I watched the episode it didn't even occur to me they were pretending their love confession to distract Merrick. I think they were being sincere in a 'one of us may not live through this, so go ahead and say it' way.

    And just an observation, maybe it's already been said, but I like the irony of this episode in the way Anakin kind of pries and gives Obi-Wan these 'hmmm, I get what's going on' looks. Rather like all the times Obi-Wan gave him suspicious looks concerning Padme.
  2. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I was going to post the same thing; watched it a second time, and noticed she wasn't signalling.

    I must say it did occur to me that it -might- have been a distraction, but only after Satine suddenly made her move. Overall I got the impression that it was sincere, maybe slightly overplayed given the situation.

    I don't think it is out of character for Obi-wan at all. In fact, leaving the order is one of two honourable options, the other being rejecting her and staying true to the Jedi code. I think it says a lot that leaving the order is a thought that didn't even seem to occur to Anakin.
  3. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Especially when Obi-Wan's been raised a Jedi and has been one all his life, and Anakin hasn't.

    Then again, for all we know they could make some different backstory for Obi-Wan.
  4. TheMacUnleashed Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2009
    star 4
    I don't know. I was the exact opposite, Xcell; I never considered that it was sincere. I can't seem to find it online at the moment, but I could have sworn that Satine sort of glanced at Obi-Wan and nodded towards Merrick, before Obi-Wan made his 'confession.'
  5. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Personally, I always saw it as a sincere confession, though there's also room for it being a ploy. Could have been a bit of both, too.
    What made it for me was Tal Merrick, though...if you're an optimist, then it's good fun. If you're a pessimist, he's giving a reference to bad romance. It's a win-win situation! :p
    If I'm ever in disbelief over something, I'm going to say it like Tal Merrick did from now on. "I don't beeliiiieeeeve this." XD
  6. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    The FIRST time I saw it, I was on the fence but after a second viewing, I'm convinced it was - at least in PART - a distraction. Obi's "This is not the time - oh" followed by Satine's glance nails it for ME that it was more than just a good-bye. He shut up because he DID get it - both meanings.

    IMHO.
  7. izzy_the_hutt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2009
    star 1
    I totally agree. This reminds me of a conversation I had with my friend a few months ago about Darth Vader. She had never really seen the OT, so I (naturally) sat her down and we watched all three movies over a weekend. I thought what she said about Vader was really interesting--she said she liked him because he was really efficient. Unlike mustache-twirling, evil for the sake of being evil bad guys, Vader GETS STUFF DONE. She even pointed out how his strangulation technique (to her) seemed to be born not out of passion, but out of some extreme form of quality control of his officers.

    I think that the same logic applies to Anakin here--he's trying to be efficient in the way that he knows how, and ultimately, he picked the simplest way of dealing with the problem. He's not an elaborate plotter kind of guy, ala Palpatine (which also sort of explains his disdain for politics, too.)
  8. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    No, I checked, and she doesn't nod at all, nor does she even roll her eyes toward him or anything. All she does is giving Obi-wan this sad look, frowning slightly. It's more the way Obi-wan's eyes seem to react, as if he suddenly understands or realizes something. Very subtle animation.

    This still can be taken two ways though, but it's not as obvious as a nod or a glance at Merrick.
  9. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    It's on starwars.com. I'm about to watch it right now, actually! Also, as far as Anakin leaving the order we don't know if it occured to him or not. In fact, Padme didn't seem to be for it in AOTC and who knows what pressure Anakin was under. These people saved him from a life of slavery, Qui-gon sacrificed himself for Anakin (in a way), Obi-wan is like a father and a brother to him and they make him out to be the choosen one all the time. Jeez it's almost no wonder he snapped!
  10. Slaign Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2008
    star 1
    Yea, I don't believe Anakin felt he could leave the order. He had left his mother in order to become a Jedi. He would be dishonoring Qui-gon, who to him was a hero who had died for him. Obi-wan would be gutted. The Jedi Council would likely not let a raw power like Anakin, who they are already wary of, go off the leash. Padme would never approve, and if he did leave the order despite her, she might leave him. Once he gets the nightmares about Padme, there's no chance he can leave the Order and abandon his quest for the power to save Padme. That is, until Palpatine offers him a way out, and we all saw how that went.
  11. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Is it wrong to laugh when Anakin kills Merrick?
  12. Mond Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2009
    star 3
    I, for one, almost fell out of my chair laughing. The reaction of Obi-Wan, and Anakin's perfectly reasonable reply were both beautifully delivered.
  13. H-BOMB Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2009
    star 2
    Did anybody else laugh when Dutchess Satine was all like "I oppose it as an affront to life itself" about the war. I mean really, something about that line is just odd and/or ridiculous.
  14. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin stabbing the guy through the chest was serious overkill....and it didn't help that it's reminiscent of how Ventress killed Argyus for no reason. A powerful Force push probably could've stunned him and knocked the remote out of his hand, or if it really came down to it he could've done another Grievous Intrigue and sliced his hand off. Gruesome, yes....but reattaching or replacing limbs is fairly easy in a universe with advanced medical and cybernetics technology, and it has to be better than killing him outright.

    Oh yeah, and why does Duchess Satine cruise around the galaxy in a giant Sun Crusher?
  15. eukaryote Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2008
    I don't post much, but I think I'll go ahead and give this episode my 2 cents.

    Overall, I thought it was very well done. Anakin was amusing throughout the entire episode, I adore Satine, and it had a good mix of action, horror, and comedy.

    The Coronet was cool. I liked the hyperspace in the background in the dining hall/room.

    Orn Free Taa annoyed me, but I guess I'm the only one.

    I loved how the first elevator ride was practically a reversal of the elevator ride in AotC.

    The ending where Anakin turned out to be the "cold-blooded killer" - HA! That was brilliant. And then the Vader music eerily playing in the background was the icing on the cake. As for whether Anakin really wanted to kill Merrick - I can't see any indication of that. Instead, I saw Anakin as totally apathetic toward Merrick's life. He didn't particularly want him dead, but he had no problem with killing him either. That was a very dramatic, suspenseful moment, and Anakin only responded with lightheartedness ("What? He was going to blow up the ship!"). And if you think about it, Anakin's general apathy toward life and his apparent ease in killing is almost as evil as wanting to kill. Though then again, they are at war, so everyone is a little more comfortable killing than normal.

    I really don't understand how anyone can interpret the "confession" scene as being just an act to distract Merrick. :confused: I thought it was very genuine during and right after the scene. Satine doesn't nod toward Merrick or give any subtle indications, at least none that I can see... She just looks at Obi-Wan with a pained expression on her face, and that causes him to stop short of what he was saying. I definitely think they were half trying to buy time, but I don't think what they were saying was untrue.

    I think it's even clearer that Obi-Wan and Satine were being genuine after Anakin kills Merrick. The moment right after Anakin's line is appropriately awkward. Neither Obi-Wan nor Satine were really sure what to say after that, and you can see Anakin lower his gaze and put a hand over his eyebrow before the Clone speaks to him. If Obi-Wan and Satine's little speech had been a mere distraction, that awkwardness wouldn't have been there.

    Just how I saw it anyway.
  16. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Except that if he was Force pushed, there's a good chance he still could have pressed the button. And if Anakin wanted to slice his hand off, he would have needed to activate the weapon and swing, which would have warned Merrick. PLUS, even if he succeeded in chopping off the hand before Merrick could do anything, the button still might have been activated by the weight of the falling hand.

    The point of the kill was that it took him out at the same time the saber was activated, so, without warning.

    Good point, I felt the same way. Satine's "I must get back to diplomacy" (or something like that) felt very, very awkward after what had just happened. It's almost like a weather comment, just to change the subject.
  17. Ludo_Kressh Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 5
    Just watched this on the OS(gods, I have cable, you'd think I'd watch it there...damn mandatory overtime on Fridays![face_plain] ) Anyway, this episode had it's appropriate suspense, awkward and of course romantic moments; I felt for Obi-Wan the whole time, trying to maintain his Jedi bearing while dealing with his old feelings for the Duchess. And Anakin with his smirks and constant pestering of their past together just made it even more awkward and somewhat amusing.:p

    Not what I expected though, I had some expectations going in from what I saw in the trailer and I was dissappointed that the line about the bounty hunters was just a reference to Obi-Wan's mission on Satine's world when he protected her with Qui-Gon(which it was good to hear him mentioned, btw;) )...so no subtle hint of what's to come in regards to that, oh well.

    The dialogue during the pre-dinner scene was hilarious, everyone there had to be blind or born yesterday not to realize something was going on between Obi-Wan and the duchess; everyone's expressions were appropriately funny too(especially Anakin's). Heck, before she left the room after Merrick suggested everyone should rest before dinner, I expected her to slap him(but that would have been too obvious:p )

    The action had the right amount of suspense too, yet it felt just like Legacy of Terror(although much better then that) and the arrival of the B2s was interesting, it left me wondering what ship they came from and how close the Deathwatch really was. Btw. I thought the royal guards' weapons were pretty cool. The end was somewhat disturbing, Anakin thrusting his saber through Merrick like that and acting as if it was nothing(Well, he was gonna blow up the ship!:rolleyes: ) with Vader's theme playing slightly in the background kind of sent a chill down my spine...well, at least Merrick didn't see that coming!:p

    I can't wait for the conclusion to this arc, hopefully we'll see the Deathwatch again...and Satine's comment about Obi-Wan's beard gave me a laugh too[face_laugh] .
  18. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, this was by far the worst line of the episode, if not the season. Had some kind of strange "I know you are, but what am I?" quality. [face_shame_on_you]
  19. Scolai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 2
    It reminded me of Padme in ROTS:

    "This war represents a failure to listen!"

    Uh...no, no it does not, Padme. That's...that's just not the point at all. You got to be senator...how exactly? Pulled a free senate appointment out of a cereal box?
  20. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Ironically enough, she got it by winning a war. She is all for war when her people are being attacked...

    For the record, I am not saying that Satine and Obi-Wan were out-right lying, as they obviously love each other, they may just...hammed it up a bit.
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Loved this episode; I really couldn't find anything to pick at. The on-ship battle was cool, the assassin droids were appropriately freaking creepy, and Anakin's abrupt running-through of the traitor Senator cracked me up; I was expecting Obi-Wan to just cut off his hand or something. :p

    I suppose it's this darn good because it was written by Paul Dini, who was responsible for alot of output on Batman: TAS. Definitely hoping we get more episodes from him in the future; he's a splendid cartoons writer.


    Edit: I suppose now we know why Traviss was so pissy at the "continuity changes" that were supposed to come with these episodes. This Mandalore is not a backwater planet or a has-been power by any means-anyone else catch Satine's mention of being the representative of 1,500 worlds? That's a huge chunk of space. Heck, there were Senators, and powerful ones, like Orn Free Taa, following Satine's lead; these Mandalorians are a major power by any measure and it's no surprise the Seps are interested in recruiting them.


  22. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Just watched it again.

    No obvious signal from Satine at the end to Obi, but she does widen her eyes and there is a def. beat skipped between them, plus a kind of longing and urging on her behalf to Obi-wan so you can still read it either way. I also thoguht it flowed better the second time.

    I had NO problem with the animation.

    Anakin still rules. Loved when he walked in and was like "alright men I'm missing dinner." or whatever it was exactly. I do have to say the interaction with the proticol droid in the cargo hold was a bit weird. he seemed impatient and abrupt and rude and kind of pissy which didn't match his attitude just before that. There didn't seem to be a need for that attitude with the droid unless he suspected the droid of screwing up and was upset he had gotten two clones killed, but they didn't establish that.

    Orn Free Taa is awesome, birth defect and all. But they really do need to address this somewhere as far as why he has two extra head tails. Is it just that he is so fat they grew out to store extra fat. 'Cause that would be amazing.

    Can't believe how fast this episode flies by!
  23. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Seriously, how can you be against war....when your enemies are droids? They're occupying your planet, looting your cities, perhaps killing your people, and on top of all that they're machines. I can understand a pacifist not wanting to kill occupying soldiers if they were living sentient beings, but battle droids can be killed without compunction.
  24. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    At what point do machines become alive? [face_thinking]


    And fanboy - Anakin "I'm missing dinner" line was incredible. =D=
  25. TheMacUnleashed Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2009
    star 4
    Yeah, it's definitely a matter of interpretation. For me, it was mostly the way Obi-Wan's eyes widened -he seemed to go "Ohh, I get it!". Y'know, it a subtle, Jedi sort of way. :p
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