Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 213: Voyage of Temptation Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but....

the Dinner Party scene reminded me of a cross between "The Thin Man" and "The Thing".

 

I haven't posted my thoughts on this episode yet... OK, it was a great episode. The probe assassins were scary and made the episode interesting. Anakin's constant questioning of Obi-Wan was funny. The Darth Vader foreshadowing was great too.

 

Also, didn't they chow down on nuna twice? I'm sure OFT didn't complain, but I'd think that's bad diplomatic form aboard a luxury ship.

 

You kidding? The dinner scene clearly reminded me of Indiana Jones.
Orn Free Taa's dialogue "You're not eating?" "Ah, dessert" suggested it.

 

Absolutely the same feeling I had.

 

I liked this one quite a bit, maybe even more than "The Mandalore Plot". Big character episode for Obi-Wan, who showed as far as the attachments things goes is far from the typical Jedi. Then again, for those who follow the EU, it seems like every major protagonist Jedi had some romantic moment at least one time in their Jedi careers.

So Artoo finds the clone helmet on the floor (the one who was not Redeye, IIRC) and doesn't seem to act to tell anyone. He couldn't have dragged it like he did Threepio's head or at least shown Cody and Rex?

For some reason, Orn screaming his head off cracked me up.

Those Mandalorian guards using their staffs against the B2s were pretty cool. I guess the Jedi aren't the only ones who can deflect blaster bolts.

Who didn't guess that Anakin was going to show up and take out Merrick at the end there? As soon as he gave one of them a choice to kill them, we knew they'd take a third option.

I have to say, Anakin has a point here. Would Obi-Wan really have been murdering him if he has a device that can blow up the ship. He metaphorically has a gun to Obi-Wan's and Satine's heads, and he's worried about her understanding if he did have to kill Merrick? Though I do wonder if in this case Kenobi could have killed him or chopped the arm before Merrick hit the button. And that's actually why I had a problem with Anakin stabbing the guy instead of cutting the hand off or decapitating him (which they probably can't do on a TV show). If the guy had reflexively pressed down on that button, they would've all been in quite a spot.

After Satine's comment about Obi-Wan's beard, it's too bad we can't have a clean-shaven Kenobi model. It'd be a bit funny if he shaved it temporarily just because of her comment. Though maybe a bit cliché too.

 

Paul Dini is the man. You can always tell when he's writing an episode because the dialogue always flows more freely. I wish GL had hired him to do the script in the prequels.

This episode was great. I appreciated it more the second time around. There was some really good horror elements in it that made it a stand out episode. 9/10 for me.

 

Really interesting episode with us finding out more about Obi-Wan's past. Who would have guessed he knew the Duchess that well? It's a good thing Obi-Wan stayed with the Jedi Order, as he would be the Jedi that more than any other was essential to restoring the Republic and saving the galaxy.

Quite a moment when Senator Merrik asks Obi-Wan and Satine which of them will be willing to use deadly force to stop him, and then Anakin answers the question for them in no uncertain terms!

 

This episode finally made me get back on these forums (nothing to say about SW since EpIII)

First, "Who will strike me down and be a cold blooded killer?" Oh, right, Anakin. Brilliant

Second, That scene plus saber throw = Vader foreshadow. Great

Third, Little assassins coming out of big one. Awesome. But previous comments were right, assassins droids in the cargo hold is getting a little old (no matter how cool the droid is)


Finally, I'd just like to say that with the mandalorian suicide in the previous episode, the use of a clonetrooper corpse as a puppet, and the (literal) back stabbing of a main character in this episode, I am excited. I now believe that this show (although a cartoon on a childrens network) will become dark enough to allow Ahsoka to be killed at the end of it. (thereby adding to episode 3 not detracting from it like I thought her presence would originally. Now I am more sure than ever that his lack of master status in 3 will have a horrible and dark secret behind it. Yay clone wars. Get dark baby. I wanna see some out right waterboarding! (its harmless, you only feel like your drowning)

 

Trying to catch up over here. I actually missed out on the last three episodes, but I guess the season 2 dvd will be that much more mouth-watering by the time it gets here!

Pretty solid episode. The probe assassin is straight out of GI Joe #3 with the little robots coming out of it, but was still cool. Nice touch having Obi's saber with a rounded tip and Ani's pointed. The feel of the ep strongly echoed AotC regarding attachment issues. All nicely underscoring how the two friends are tragically headed in different directions.

 

I'm in my 30s and love the show. I have it programmed on my DVR so I won't miss an episode.

 

"The Thing" b/c that mini assasin droid bit was like Kurt Russell burning the blood. "The Thin Man" b/c Obi-Wan knew the traitor was at the dinner table and kind of let the thing play out. The Thin Man was the first of a series of movies from the 40's btw.

 

I did that most of last season. Now I've gravitated to just catching them online, not realizing that they get taken down after a couple of weeks or so, apparently. Somehow I was able to keep up with two TV shows last year and on top of that come here and read the entire discussion thread even-- now I don't know where the time goes!

That's one of the real strengths of this show, in terms of bridging the generations: how they manage to pay homage to so many different inspirations in such a compacted space. Most kids won't get the references, but simply be entertained by them and think they're seeing it for the first time. Adults might be motivated to seek out these old beloved movies and maybe even show their kids, if not watch 'em for the first time themselves! (I've never seen The Thin Man.)

 

I'm glad they haven't dumbed down the series. Good job Lucasfilm.

 

Slaign, I find it interesting that you speak so well about passion and love in one post, and then in another argue that our brains are simply advanced computers that make decisions by crunching numbers.

But love is a decision.

Thus, love is ultimately nothing more than the output of the organic flesh computers that we refer to as ourselves.

In your view, I (I being a computer) love my wife because my experiences with her are represented chemically in my brain (which is me) by certain values, and when those values are mathematically compered with other values and ran through various algorithms and such, love is the product. She = 2. I = 2. 2x2=4. and 4 = love.

I must admit, it sounds awfully hollow. Empty of meaning. But, in my opinion, naturalism in general makes things sound hollow, so it isn't surprising.


Anyway, speaking of droids and their being or not being persons (both sentient and sapient), this more than a scientific question. Science is limited to observable phenomena, and our senses are limited to the physical. Thus science is limited to the physical. Science is therefore incapable of answering the question "does anything besides the physical exist." That's a metaphysical question. And questions of personhood are metaphysical. To argue that personhood is a direct result of the physical and only the physical is not to make a scientific claim, but a metaphysical one, as one is making a claim that extends beyond the scope of science. It is a claim involving information that cannot be obtained scientifically (specifically, the claim is either "no information exists that isn't subject to the scientific method" [a philosophy called 'metaphysical naturalism'], or that such information does exist but does not have bearing on personhood).

Today many believe that all that exists is matter ('metaphysical naturalism'). They claim that belief is based on science. But science cannot make that claim. It is impotent to that task.

Thus metaphysical naturalism is not a purely logical and scientific philosophical position. It is, in the end, an assumption...a guess.

Connected to this, Slaign, your assertions about the human brain, the brains of other life forms, the nature of free will and the concept of choice, and the nature of consciousness, while well stated and interesting to read, are guesses. I say that not to insult, but simply to state the nature of things. They are neither purely logical nor without a component of faith (in particular, faith that either the immaterial does not exist, or that it is not relevant to consciousness).

Obviously Star Wars is a fictional universe, and we exist outside it. So if we have metaphysical questions about the SW universe, we're not in a hopeless position. We can ask George. And George, who knows the physical and the metaphysical of the SW universe, can tell us.

Until/unless he gives an answer (or if he's given one...until I find it), all we can do is speculate.

As for me, I really have no idea. I didn't like it when Obi-Wan referred to R2 as "only a droid" in "Downfall of a Droid." I like R2, and don't personally like that Kenobi (my favorite character) thinks so lowly of R2. But then again, is R2 just a fancy calculator? I don't know. And for that matter, is (as Slaign asserts about people in the real world) Kenobi just a fancy calculator? Again, only Lucas knows.

One last point of metaphysics before I hush...
Slaign, you said:
I always viewed the Force as not some divine thing that defines life, but as a mysterious phenomenon that science has yet to fully grasp. I see it as being the same as before people knew what gravity was. When people don't fully understand things, they tend to create explanations. I think the Jedi and Sith built religions on the Force, but that it is merely their beliefs that personify and give a "will" to the Force.

The evidence given in this article at the bottom of the page suggests Lucas might not completely agree with y

 

Luv and icky romance suckz

How can people not understand this?

 

How dare you?!?! More kissing in TCW!!!

 

Hey, everyone!!! I'm new here so be nice!

OK, I didn't read the entire thread, so this may have been said already. Am I the only one who noticed Anakin rubbing his head after stabbing Merrick? Was this a "dark side" moment?

 

Welcome to the LACWACky place!

And no, I didn't notice him rubbing. What's so dark side about it?

 

It reminded me of when Yoda hears Qui-Gon during his meditation in AOTC, while Anakin is killing Tuskens. I just wonder if Anakin is hearing a voice or something? Maybe not...just thinking...lol

 

Watching it again, something seems a bit off about Anakin's dialogue to the protocol droid (or quartermaster droid, or whatever it was). Maybe a little too over the top. I just don't think I liked the delivery there.

Or maybe she didn't want to take that life away from him.

I'm not sure his presence there necessarily means he was part of the neutral systems. I don't recall Ryloth ever being called neutral. I think both are Republic worlds. And even if they remain neutral, they could still be part of the Republic and simply choosing not to be part of the war, couldn't they?

Anakin is hardly in the arc, though.

Yeah, well, those young boys are more likely to buy the Captain Rex toys. Not saying you ladies wouldn't, just more of that age group and gender will.

I know Rifftrax had a suggestion. "Please, call me 'Wan'."

Or not, seeing as the first thing she tried to do was get the Republic to intervene.