The Clone Wars: Episode 214: Duchess of Mandalore Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    And why Spar and his boys were eventually the ones take Mandalore. Better training and managed to rally the people behind them. That's probably why Dooku said to be patient.
  2. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Well...

    1. Ryloth - weather satellites were installed by the CIS for the occupation.
    2. Grievous - He has been programmed to believe the experiments were voluntary. Like he also believes he was always a ruthless monster.
    3. Eeth Koth - I raise you Sora Bulq.
    4. Mandalorians - Actually works better with the NEC.

    Fall of the Old Republic? ToR. Black saber? I raise you sound in space.

    Next continuity issue, anyone? :cool:
  3. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    I always thought Grievous was just too proud, when he said that he "chose this," I thought that meant that he just simply chose to keep the changes rather than just let himself die/kill himself.
  4. Scolai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 2
    Jumping to hyperspace in an atmosphere.

    That's the only one I can't quite puzzle yet.
  5. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    Well Koth was mentioned to be fighting in the Clone Wars before TCW. I think he fought on Korriban.
  6. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure that, according to the guide, Sora Bulq died in the same gunship crash. So it seems that the EU Clone Wars comic book series brought back a dead Jedi, too. But does anyone care if they did it...

    I'm a HUGE stickler for continuity, and i REALLY wish they wouldn't make such extreme changes like Ryloth or Mandalore, but I really don't see a Jedi killed in a reference book being in the show as a big deal. Now, if they were killed in an actual STORY where it was confrmed they died, like Yareal Poof, then I'd have a problem with them coming back.
  7. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    at least without proper explanation. K'kruhk was thought to be dead cause the clone troopers got no life signs from him and he took an overhead lightsbaer slash from Grievous in the micro-series. but later he comes back to life cause apparently he entered a special meditation just as Grievous slashed him, but in the Micro-Series you are given the strong impression that K'kruhk. Not that I'm complaining, I love K'kruhk. It just seems a little unfair. Wild Space said Koth was alive and kickin' 2 years ago and nobody complained, but when TCW does it, suddenly it's a continuity error cause he goes against what a single guide book says. Also, K'kruhk's "resurrection" is taken just fine.
  8. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    From what I understand, jumping in an atmosphere is possible, but incredibly dangerous, so ship computers will not allow that to happen. basically, their safety got turned off and it was lucky they didn't die.

    Or maybe Quell was just a low gravity world with a very thin upper atmosphere.

    The real question is: How can Obi-Wan punch people wearing armor and not get his hand broken?

    They could do arm shields like Durge in the microseries, though.
    Those were cool, we should see more of those.

    Also, Gungan hand held shields seemed to work pretty well...I wonder why all these people use bulky, physical shields then?
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    K'Kruhk had a previous history of being thought dead. When combined with the Genndy "death" and the apparent popularity of my sig file, it became sort of an acknowledged in-joke about the character- he's injured again by Vos later in the comics, refers to being believed dead before, mentions now carrying emergency medical supplies with him, is thought dead again as a vision until he surprises Cade to reveal he's really alive in Legacy, etc, etc.

    Koth was just agreed as dead by everyone till that point (despite the sggested logic of Sora surviving too), which is why it got more heat. Also I imagine people would rather see them develop Kolar instead, since he's one of Mace's Posse.

    No, they pretty much released the Whipid healing trance retcon very soon after that Chapter aired. No source identified that as his death. Much like Ventress's "death" in the Micro-Series, it functions as a conclusion to the characters for the purpose of the Micro-Series to make it be stand-alone, even if we know from other sources (comics, TCW) that they survived to fight another day.
  10. WedgeWalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    Regarding jumping to hyperspace in the atmosphere, it's also my understanding is that the atmosphere isn't really a factor. The problem is that objects with mass project a 'mass shadow' into hyperspace via their gravitational field. You can't fly through any portion of hyperspace that has a shadow in it, as you'll get pulled back to realspace (and die, since two atoms can't share the same space at the same time). Planets cast shadows, so you want to avoid them.

    But here's my problem. Large objects like planets, stars, and moons, have gravitational fields that extend way beyond the physical space they take up. I mean, Pluto is in orbit around the sun because of the sun's gravity. But at it's closest, Pluto is a whopping 4,436,824,613 km from the sun.

    So how strong do the gravitational forces have to be in a given space before you get a mass shadow? Or is it only areas where there is both mass and gravity?

    Either way, if a ship can go into hyperspace from orbit around a planet, it stands to reason it can go from very high in the atmosphere.
  11. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Your stretching to add critcism that isn't there. It has nothing to do with "Just cause TCW did it". I've been critical about K'kruhk for several years now, as well as Legacy's over reliance on Darkhorse characters like Hett and Tra'saa. I've been way more critical about K'kruhk than I ever was about Koth. I'm happy he was brought back.

    You asked and I offered an answer, it doesn't do us much good to then argue about why people should/shouldn't care about whatever change has occured. The reality is that these changes did occur, some people don't like them.

    Come over to Lit, visit my novel reviews and comic discussions. You'll find there is a lot about Star Wars I like and a lot that I'm critical of. For me this is in no way an issue of The Clone Wars against the glory of the rest of the EU. I like both and am very critical in an equal oppurtunity type manner;)

    As for Koth in Wild Space, a lot of people complained about that and even the Wookieepedia editors wouldn't allow it as "canon"(like they control that;) ). Just because you didn't see the critcism doesn't mean it wasn't there. There was a lot of it from accusations that Karen Miller did horrible research in preparing her novel to it being assumed as an outright error by a lot of folks.

    In the end Karen was right(having reviewed the Season 2 scripts while writing Wildspace) and the critics were wrong.
  12. Scolai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 2
    I tend to agree with the final statement, mostly because I dislike it when Star Wars starts becoming more "Trekkish" and needs everything to fit some sort of theoretical physics model. As long as hyperspace doesn't take you to Candy Land, I'm o.k. with it just working.

    However, the problem comes in that in several other sources, it's been made clear that ships cannot jump to hyperspace without first clearing a planet's gravity well. I'd assume that means until they are at "0g". That's kind of the point of Interdictor Cruisers, to pull ships out of hyperspace by creating large mass shadows. IIRC in Black Fleet Crisis there were ships that could "skip" across mass fields (it's been years since I read that series, so I may be mistaken), but I don't think we've ever had a ship just jump while in gravity before.

    Of course, this is Star Wars, with laser swords and jetpacks and giant planet destroying space stations...so, it being some weird hyperdrive that just happens to be able to do that is o.k. with me, though it doesn't really fix the contradiction without that being confirmed.
  13. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Wow this discussion got off topic fast.

    Just rewatched the episode. Appreciate the more serious tone a bit more the second time around and it moved faster. Applause for willing to close out the Mando arc with an episode about this new character Satine and of course Palpatine.

    Watching it on a better TV also helped pick out some of the Senate aliens and Mon Mothma better. Wodnering why they don't use those grey skinned flat face aliens or Toydarians or Grans or any of the other models more for background aliens in Coruscant?

    More of Coruscant was fun to see... thought there was room for some fun little easter eggs there. Oh well, at least they didn't over do it with easter eggs.
  14. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Totally!

    BTW - shouldn't this K'Kruhk, Koth, Ryloth discussion be moved to the continuity thread?
  15. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Well, it creeps up in every single thread. If it's for half a page, it's not a huge deal.
  16. swcolts1977 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2009
    star 1
    Awsome episode, the animation was perfect in every aspect. The facial expressions seemed real, Palpatine's in particular. Mas Amedda was cool and Mon Mothma cameo was nice as well.

    I liked all of the political things going on, really made it feel like the prequels. Same with the senate scenes.

    I agree with Jason of theforcecast that Satine and Obi-Wan's relationship faltered in this episode, nothing really went on between them compared to the last two.

    Finally, the sound design in this episode was some of the best in the series, from the police probe to the sniper rifle to the thermal detenator (COD anyone?) I also enjoyed hearing the classic landpseeder sound. Matt Wood and David Acord don't get enough credit for what they do in bringing the SW universe to life.
  17. Brisi_Wine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    The lack of more Obi-Wan/Satine development didn't bother me, as we got loads of it the previous week. With this episode focusing rather successfully on the political spectrum, any shoehorning of more romance would have felt out of place for me.

    I think that their romantic stalemate will come to some kind of conclusion next season when Satine is finally killed and Mandalore reverts back to the warrior ways of the past. I imagine that would give Obi-Wan quite a grudge against the Mandos. This is of course conjecture, but might be possible.
  18. swcolts1977 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2009
    star 1
    I know but it was being well-developed in the first two, and then all of the sudden there was nothing new about it in this episode.
  19. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The political side was the more impressive part of the episode.

    It was definitely the weakest of the 3 Mando episodes.
  20. swcolts1977 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2009
    star 1
    Agreed, the political stuff was very good, there needs to be more in TCW.
  21. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Late to the party from a vacation. Really liked the episode, it had a lot of neat stuff in it.

    -Great visuals and locales, especially the McQuarrie park. I also kinda liked the Death Watch Camp
    -The Senate is starting to look more populated, though it'll be awhile before they build up enough character models to use there...unless you bring in the Piratical Neutral delegates from Florrum. :p
    -The politics were indeed very well done here and explained pretty nicely. When they gave Padme the job of exposing the plot, though, I thought 'riiiiight, that's a safe choice, she's only ended up a hostage of some kind everytime she was involved in something'...Couldn't they bring in Bail Organa? EVERYONE trusts Phil LaMarr! XD
    -I liked Mon Mothma and Chuchi's cameo appearances. I especially thought the subtext/representation in using them was pretty good, as both senators are indeed dedicated to peace and would avoid a military occupation
    -There were two pieces of 'subtle' animation which were great: Firstly, after Satine chews out Obi-Wan and gets into her speeder, there's a moment where her expression changes in an instant to look waaaay sadder. Secondly, there's Palpatine's curses-my-scheme-is-foiled-scowl, though that wasn't quite so subtle. XD
    -Hmm, that Mandalorian wasn't quite up to the task...ah well. At least Obi-Wan got to show his moves!
    -Dooku's proper return, while understated, was very good in showing him in his overlooking plotter role. Loved him saying "Yeah, and you'd hold it for a day" XD
    -Setting up for the return of the Death Watch? [face_thinking]
  22. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Neither was Obi-Wan, unless allowing the Mandalorian to escape was intentional.;)
  23. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    Didn't they agree to just be friends at the end of last week and the start of this week with the whole "we're friends aren't we?" "Yes, and nothing more."

    I don't see where else they can take this. I don;t want to see Obi break his vows... that's for Anakin.
  24. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    otherwise he wouldn't be a good foil to Anakin.
  25. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    You know how all those hippies want to live on Pandora?

    I want to live on Coruscant. ;) Right by McQuarrie Park.:cool:
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