The Clone Wars: Episode 214: Duchess of Mandalore Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Feb 10, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    =D= This! That was exactly my reaction to the "world building" hype of Avatar! I'd so much rather live in a McQuarrie/Lucasfilm created civilized world than run around in a loincloth sticking my tail in random animals!
  2. quiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 2
    This is what I thought also, I had hoped they would have built on the obi/Duchess relationship a little more and I found the actions scenes lacking. The senate was okay but barely, I would have expected the Dutchess to have understood the dynamic of what would happen to her people should the fed's come in that is they would then join the death watch and bring that up in the senate, I mean they want to remain peaceful and neutral, fed's come in no longer neutral, seems simple reasoning to me.

    At the end of the episode I had a meh feeling, seemed more like a entry episode to a story block rather then a thrilling ending.
  3. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Hmm, that Forcecast Roundtable seemed a little weak to me. Its always fun to listen to the guys, but I wished that they had been a little more varied with their discussions. They seemed to go on way too long on Obi-Wan and Satine's inconsistent relationship. I would have liked it if they had focused on the Death Watch Assassin a bit more.

    It really seemed like they were focusing too much on the conflicts between the EU and GL. I think that most people have made up their mind by now concerning the canon issues between the show and the EU. They were really cramming a lot of stuff into the last five minutes, which I would have liked to have seen expanded on.

    Ah well. Still, this episode was fantastic in my opinion. I can understand the reasons why Satine and Obi-Wan's relationship is strained again. Firstly, Voyage of Temptation was made way before TMP and DOM, which were made much closer to each other.
    Secondly, why Satine ripped Obi-Wan a new one outside the Senate, she was already fuming following the meeting. She needed to lash out at someone.
  4. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Hells yeah. Or even better, maybe: right down in that shoddy apartment where Bane lives. Or some obscure place on Nar Shaddaa.

    In retrospect, maybe it wasn't such a strong ending for the arc. But I really liked the political theme, and how the show -for the first time- actually posed the question if the Republic really were the good guys. Isn't this the moral ambiguity we've all been hoping to see in the series? It had me more excited than the first episode, to be honest. I thought 'Voyage' was the best, for pure drama and Star Wars epic feeling. I'll say 'Duchess' was better than 'Mandalore Plot'. Also because part of me was really expecting to see the seppies get their way this time. War on Mandalore! (Next episode) That would have been pure awesome.
  5. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Ah yes, I can see it now!
    *ahem* (adopts Tom Kane voice)

    War on Mandalore!
    Despite Duchess Satine's efforts in the Republic Senate, the feared terrorist movement "Death Watch", has launched an attack on the peace loving people of Mandalore!
    Backed by the vile Count Dooku, Death Watch commander Pre Viszla has taken control of the capital city of Sundari!
    Against the will of the Republic, Jedi Knights Anakin Skywalker, and Obi-Wan Kenobi, lead a desperate mission to defeat the Death Watch, once and for all!
  6. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    All in good time, my friends... all in good time.

    If I could live anywhere in SW... I don't think I could pick one planet since they aren't very multidimensinal (ie Sand planet, ice planet, water planet...) Id have to live on a kickass spaceship galavanting around the galaxy. :cool:
  7. Darth_Gamek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2009
    star 6
    ...I wish Karen Traviss directed and/or wrote all three episodes in this arc.
  8. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    Having watched this one a couple of times, it's pretty solid. Maybe, IMO, the weakest of the three, but all three have been rather strong episodes, just not the Mando fest some of us might have expected. Someone pointed out earlier on the thread that where "Senate Spy" sort of failed to do a high quality political intrigue story, "Duchess of Mandalore" really succeeds. We get to see the Republic really imposing its will on an independent system that really doesn't want it because the threat to that planet may be a larger threat to them all. I can't help but wonder if there are some modern (and certainly historic) parallels there. Watching Palpatine in this episode is really fun, knowing what's probably running through his mind as his plot builds up and unravels. And every time I see the guy, I can't help but wonder just how much Mas Amedda knows. He certainly doesn't flinch in Episode III when his master gets all burned and the most powerful Jedi in the Order comes to try and take the guy down.

    Getting another look at Coruscant, especially during the nighttime, was a treat, whether it be more police droids (on speeder bikes!), constable clones, or McQuarrie-inspired locations, it's all wonderful to see. We didn't get out and about on Coruscant during the night enough during the prequels.

    The small Mandalorian connection, with the assassin going after Satine, was a bit routine, but the fight at the end was great. I love the old explosion/ear-ringing aftermath we get here. Obi-Wan and the assassin have a nice, brief struggle and I'm glad that he got away rather than yet another villain taken down rather easily.

    I can't say I would call Vizsla a "whiner" though. The guy makes one complaint when their plan falls apart and suddenly he's a crying little baby? Right. I'm sure we'll be seeing the Mandalorians again, though, even if they don't show up again this season.
  9. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    I just think they need to be careful with Viszla and try hard not to write him the easy way out. When he first shows up as a Mando he blasts another Mando soldier for failing to kill Obi-wan... and then prompltly fails himself and orders his three Mando guards to use their rockets on Obi-wan. True, he just wanted to "finish" obi-wan and end the fight and three rockets one could assume would be enough to do the trick... but then he decides not to go after Obi-wan after he escapes in the elevator shaft??

    So I guess the assassin in DOM will get executed by Viszla when he returns home in defeat?

    As far as Viszla being a whinner, it did come across as such a bit given his badassery in previous episodes... even though I think the intention was anger. That perception was possibly due to the way the voice came across from Jon Favreau (New York Jew).

    We don't need another Grevious. And i also hope Lucas doesn't shy away from a Mando kill count.
  10. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I felt that, too. It was getting late into the episode and I was actually rather drawn into it, but part of me was disappointed because I knew at only 22 minutes the episode was going to end any second.

    Yeah, we see them at their rally point or whatever that was. Only one was involved in the plot, though, so... I think he's the only one that really counts.

    I didn't catch her the first time. Great to see, though.

    Though pacifists, apparently they were ready to defend themselves if the words of that dead prime minister are anything to go by.

    Right, the guy who actually failed at what he was trying to do should go after the guy that hasn't really done anything yet. Sure.

    I think one of the Forcecast guys counted, what, 19 of them? I don't know if he was being serious or not.

    I don't know about that. There are a million systems in the Republic and however many outside of it. Jocasta is expected to know all of them? And Obi-Wan goes to Dex simply because he might know vague, trivial information that others wouldn't.

    I don't know how confirmed it was, but I do believe the line about there being "no other survivors" predated "BTW, Whipids can enter an almost death-like stasis healing state". I believe that was created because K'Kruhk had already appeared in comics that were meant to take place later in the timeline. Maybe Genndy meant to kill him, but it was already fated for him to live.

    MercenaryAce:
    The real question is: How can Obi-Wan punch people wearing armor and not get his hand broken?

    He's... uh... using the Force? I don't know, maybe his punches have a bit of Force push with them so he doesn't completely make contact with the armor. Or something.

    fanboyskywalker
    I just think they need to be careful with Viszla and try hard not to write him the easy way out. When he first shows up as a Mando he blasts another Mando soldier for failing to kill Obi-wan... and then prompltly fails himself and orders his three Mando guards to use their rockets on Obi-wan. True, he just wanted to "finish" obi-wan and end the fight and three rockets one could assume would be enough to do the trick... but then he decides not to
  11. Scolai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 2
    Actually, that's kinda what I said. And no, not systems, but a Jedi who's been part of the temple for something like a thousand years she might know a bit about. However, I'll leave open the possibility she kept her race somewhat secretive or didn't speak of it much. She was an outcast. The real issue comes in to why you need a Kaminoan Jedi at all for a story, and to what purpose that character will be used, but that's not really part of this discussion. I'll just say, you could make the same arguments for an Ewok Jedi too, and it's would still feel silly. (Meet Master Wicket, Ahsoka, he'll be instructing you in the fine art of yub nub!)

    Also, Obi-Wan went to Dex after the archive droids had already tried to determine the origin of the saber dart, so it wasn't like the knowledgebase of the Jedi wasn't tapped first, but that dart wasn't recognized. I'm not sure it would have been identified even had Kamino not been erased, as Dex mentions it's the workmanship that gives it away and the archive droids only focus on symbols and markings.
  12. Tordelback Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 2
    The innumerable Ithorians (and Weequays with monkey lizards and pirate bandana) are a bizarre choice - the lads would do well to make a few cruder models based on more of the background humans showcased in the AotC visual dictionary and throw them in instead. They'll certainly get some use out of them.

    That said, between this and Lightsaber Lost at least we've learnt that the Senate District is located close to the Ithorian Ghetto, aka Hammertown. The buildings in McQuarrie Park have a certain treelike vibe to them, so maybe it's an Ithorian civic centre? Plus, wouldn't a species with a strong connection to the natural world want to live near the only visible part of Coruscant's original surface ?
  13. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
    I would like to imagine that when you enter that Ithorian ghetto there's a sign that says:


    STOP!

    Hammertown.
  14. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    [face_laugh] Nice...
  15. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
  16. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Why not? No really, why not? We've already had Yarael Poof and Oppo Rancisis as extremely odd looking Jedi(not to mention Yoda and Yaddle).

    One of Yoda's best dialog ever is him scolding Luke about judging him by his appearance.

    Kina Ha, well she was an interesting addition to 501st on a couple levels. First because she makes the lead characters confront their blatant racism against Kaminoans, but it also proves to Kal Skirata that a being can be genetically altered to extend life, which is exactly what he's spent the previous couple books looking to do.

    As for the Ewok's, despite LFL's silly "no Ewok Jedi" proclamation we clearly see many a Ewok do super natural things a plenty in the Movies, Comics and cartoons. The Force is strong with the little bears.;)

  17. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I want a Jawa Jedi, then.
  18. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    I've been arguing that for longer than I've been a member here! Glad to see someone ELSE is bothered by that! :D

    Also, something I belatedly thought of- in this ep, we catch a brief glimpse of the emitter of Kenobi's lightsaber... and it doesn't look like ANY of the props in the films (I should know- I just finished a marathon of all six films in two days, and all the emitters of the sabers are really bland compared to the intricate detail I recall from that brief shot). Anyone think they could get a screengrab of it?
  19. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    I'm still waitin' for a Jawa Jedi.
  20. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Though the films portray them as good natured, neither Ewoks nor Gunguns can believe in the Force. "Ohh, maxi big da force... well that smells stinkowhiff!" Instead, they believe in gods. Ewoks are probably force-sensitive, because they recognize C-3P0 as a god. "A prophecy which misread could have been."
  21. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    I don't think they can't be Jedi cause they ain't able to be Force Sensitive. it's just that species like Ewoks haven't reached the mental capabilities to understand it the way Jedi do.


    I haven't heard anything about Gungans being unable to become Jedi, they seem intelligent enough to understand the Force the way a Jedi would.
  22. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
    Gungans probably do believe in the Force generally. I think Jar Jar may have been having a Han Solo moment when he doubted it in Ep I - since it hadn't done much for him lately. I took his statement to mean that he probably knows of the Force, yet he has little faith in its ability to help them out in their situation. Such scepticism of the Force was not uncommon in the galaxy among those who had no direct knowledge of it.

    In the Clone Wars episodes Children of the Force/Cargo of Doom there was a Force-sensitive Gungan called Roo-Roo Page who was kidnapped by Cad Bane.
  23. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    Indeed, just because most of the species may not believe in the Force doesn't mean an individual couldn't be trained in it. For all we know, most Talz at this point aren't aware of it, but we know there are Talz Jedi.
  24. Sith-Spitter01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2010
    star 3
    I know Jawas are force sensitive.


    Creatures like Ewoks are a little supersticious due to their primitivity, it may be that they can't become Jedi cause exposure to The Force in the ways that advanced species that make up Jedi Knights would be damaging to their psyches. A kinda culture shock if you will.
  25. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    We've also had a full Gungan Jedi Knight:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kin-Ya_Dosun
    whose Padawan- yet ANOTHER Gungan- fell to the dark side and became a Dark Jedi:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kosa-Yin_Hadu
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.