Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 214: Duchess of Mandalore Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

He's a Kaminoan in disguise! That's why he said Jango wasn't a Mandalorian - he's protecting their source for potentially more clones.

 

You had me till you dropped in the myth that he said Jango wasn't a mandalorian.

By the way, toy of the Mando scout coming this year. With Kool-aid Man "OH YEAH" battering ram! (O.k., I made that up, but he does have a battering ram with his shield, and he could bust through a wall and yell "OH YEAH!", and this is my "personal canon" that he does just that on the weekends)

 

It makes complete sense! Some Kaminoan disguised himself as the Kalevalan (again, I REFUSE to call them "New Mandalorians") PM, to mislead Obi-Wan to intervene in their pacifist movement, and...I don't know where I'm going with this.

(thinks for a minute)

Wait a minute! The Kaminoans are focused on creating Clones. You know, the Clones that are trained by the WAR LIKE MANDALORIANS THAT EU FANS HAVE GROWN TO LOVE AND THAT G-CANON FANS DESPISE (sorry, I had a seizure). Anyway, the Kaminoans use the Mandalorians that the Kalevalans are AGAINST...which shows that Almec/that Kaminoan guy is plotting with Pre Vizsla to sabotage the Kalevalan society from within, and rally the Death Watch and the True Mandalorians! IT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE!!!

 

Hmm, I've only seen the episode once, but how would the scout scene being removed make the senate hologram more plausible? I thought in the holo the guy says that Death Watch is much larger than they anticipated, which would tie in directly to the scout discovering the large staging area. The government now knows they have a civil war brewing and are trying to ready the populace. I may have missed something, though.

 

Am I the only who catch a glimpse of the Duchess portrait and tought, Picasso?:
http://www.tinta-china.net/picasso22.jpg
[image=http://www.tinta-china.net/picasso22.jpg]

I do not have a screen cap to compare, anyone?

 

No, you're not the only one - Dave Filoni does too. They did the portrait and the Mandalore painting in The Mandalore Plot as specific references to two of Picasso's works.

And now we begin the "cubes vs. cubist" debate

 

Oh God not again.

Quest - totally disagree. The Mandalore opening is key to establishing the tone of the episode. Also, the Anakin readying the troops is kind of pointless to the plot and would probably slow down an already 2/3 slow episode. I was surprised when I heard they had shot that and not surprised to see it go. Hopefully it's on the deleted scenes of the DVD, though. Knowing Dave they will probably make it a director's cut, but I just don't see how cutting back to Anakin saying "let's go men!" is any good. Not like we haven't seen that before...

 

I'd like to see the Anakin episodes on Blu-Ray before judging them, but I did feel like there were missing sections to this episodes. Anything to make the scope of the events bigger and more real would certainly help, no?

 

I only saw the episode once - so I'm not sure about this - but one thing that occurred to me while watching it is: if they edited certain words and sentences out, this should theoretically be visible in the holovid... the guy is moving and making gestures all the time... but it's not visible. Again, I only saw it once so I'm not sure how it was edited exactly.

 

Presumably whoever edited the tapes was good enough to adjust for that.

 

Jocasta Nu might well know Kina Ha without knowing she is a Kaminoean, or she may not know her at all. In a community of 10,000 Jedi, some of which probably only rarely step foot in the temple, this is not outside the realm of possibility.

Also considering that Jocatsa Nu has been proven quite ignorant in the past I wouldn't put anything past her.

 

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, as I am too lazy to search this post, but why was it evil of Anakin to kill Tal Merrick? He was going to kill everyone, so why was the Vader theme played there? I wonder what Obi-Wan was going to do there.

Jango not being a Mandalorian makes as much sense as Rodians not being green. He would be Mandalorian because he had the sense of honour, but unlike say Satine he wasn't a nationalist. He didn't care for the planet. He fought like the Death Watchmen we see in the episodes, and he has a blaster producing the same sound they have. Just a random bounty hunter doesn't click with me, because he was way too good against the Jedi, and the only ones who ever fought the Jedi well for millenia were the Mandalorians. Even with the new continuity of the Mandalorians being pacifists for 700 years doesn't make Jango any less of a Mandalorian than the rest. Perhaps they just denied it for the sake of keeping relations with the Republic. Those who win wars write history.

 

True enough, though CWAS Jocasta is a lot more palatable than AOTC Jocasta.

Anyway, neither here nor there, but still kinda sketchy in my book.

In any event, we still have the new Mandalorian conflict to look forward to. Clearly Death Watch will continue to be a danger to the Mandalorian people. They could do a nice 3 part series on just that conflict, perhaps starting with Satine being kidnapped and Obi and Anakin off to save her, followed by Satine asking for Republic help and explaining the difference between being forced into accepting the Republic's help and asking for it independently. Then a nice big ol' fight, perhaps showcasing the Mandalorians on Satine's side in armor that's older and more beat up than the new "shinies" of the Death Watch, but still better. You could have a whole "Battle of Helm's Deep" but with mandos.

Of course, you'd also get to see Satine upset that while she did keep her world neutral, she had to resort to arming her people to fend off the Death Watch and their Separatist support.

 

Uh, they never said Jango wasn't a mando. I've posted in several threads about it, but the Governor never actually says Jango wasn't a mandalorian, only that he was a common bounty hunter and that he had no idea how Jango got his armor - in other words, how a low life could have gotten his hands on that armor of a warrior. My specific example has been of a real life drug dealer wearing Marine dress blues. Same idea.

People either misheard, misunderstood or in some cases intentionally misrepresented what the Governor said. Jango's still a mando, the Governor just thinks he's a slimeball. No harm there, all things considered. The Governor is entitled to his opinion, after all.

Also, sorry if this is a double post.

 

The dude was also denying the existence of the Death Watch in the same breath, so he's not credible. Still don't trust that Governor.

 

I definitely misunderstood that. He absolutely was a slimo, no denying that - and why he's awesome!

Perhaps he denies the Death Watch because he never encountered them? The Mandalorian Civil War took place outside the Mandalore system, only on the outreach of Mandalorian space. Almec might have interpreted that as being nothing than minor conflict.

As I bet the New Mandalorians just dismiss the splinter groups like the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch as being "hardly a movement", they dismiss Mandalorian space around them conquered by the warrior clans long ago. So Concord Dawn might not be considered a Mandalorian planet by Satine Kryze. A real world anology: Ukraine is an independent country. Only 20 years ago, it was Soviet country, with different values and government and even capital.

 

I just managed to catch this episode on the official site, I really enjoyed it and I liked the use of foreshadowing devices at the end. At first,I thought when Count Dooku says there are other means to accomplish their goals and the dialogue between Obi-Wan and Satine meant that there was gonna be another episode to this, but then after finding out there wasn't going to be, I started to think about the events of the whole Mandalore the Resurrector story and realized that the entire ending is foreshadowing the events that actually have The New Mandalorians lose majority control. I think this arc payed a lot of homage to other EU material and also fit comfortably in the timeline. I also thought Lucasfilm did a good job of alluding to or referencing other EU stories without overwhelming people who don't know all of those things. For me, these three eps felt more like an introduction to the Mandalorians rather than a straight up portrayal, but in a good way. For the big Mando fans, this arc wouldn't be too much of anything special other than just getting a chance to see Mandalore on screen and getting to see the armor in action again on something that isn't paper. But for people who maybe don't know a lot about Mandalorians, like the younger and newer SW fans, this arc serves as an introduction to the Mandalorians.

I think of it like this, if you are a huge Mando fan or just someone who knows Jango Fett's backstory, what the Mandalorian Wars and stuff are, these three episodes are like a midnight snack. But for people who are new to Mandalorians, this arc is like an appetizer before they dig in to the main course. There are probably a lot of people and kids who have just seen this arc and are likely wanting to find out who these ancestors who fought against the jedi were, how Jango Fett got his armor, and what exactly Dooku's other plans were for Mandalore which will lead them to pick up things like Open Seasons, KOTOR 1 and 2, Republic Commando, and The Old Republic.

 

His naivete is all the more reason not to put credit in his words about Jango.

 

It's possible that, in the GFFA, they have actually developed advanced technology by which computers can general imagery which simulates images of reality.

 

Looks Holoshopped to me. I can tell from a few pixels and also seeing many Holoshops before.

 

On my first viewing I would have agreed the scout scenes were repetitive, but then I watched with my 5 year old cousin, and I changed my mind...

I think the scout scenes are meant not so much for the adult fans, but for those in the audience who don't read geo-political relevance into every plot element. It very clearly spelled out exactly why we should be rooting against republic intervention. Most of the series has been told from the Republic=good POV . It's a bit of a leap for the under 12 set to 'get' why anyone wouldn't want the Jedi to intervene, much less to accept that they're right to refuse help. (Especially American children, who have been fortunate enough to never deal with "being" the Mandalorians.) Yes, it's repetitive for those of us who are mature enough to evaluate things from many points of view, but necessary so that the kids watching know who to root for.

As always, YMMV

 

It's implied, he doesn't need to say it.

Obi-Wan is asking Almec if he's certain that there are no Mandalorian warriors anymore?

Almec- "All our warriors were exiled to our moon, Concordia. They died out years ago."
Obi-Wan- "Are you certain? I recently encountered a man who wore Mandalorian Armor, Jango Fett."
Almec- "Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he aquired that armor is beyond me."

Obi-Wan is specifically asking the Prime Minister if he thinks that Jango Fett is a Mandalorian warrior. Almec replies that Jango was a common bounty hunter. Almec's POV is clear, the Mandalorian Warriors are all dead so Jango couldn't have been one. I don't see how it can be viewed any other way.............

That said Almec has been proven to be somewhat unreliable being that there is a whole army of Death Watchers on Concordia, all in that armor, so his POV on the subject is not fact. Yet that is the message he's delivering to Obi-Wan.

 

Did anyone else get tired of the Giddeon Danu look-alike walking past himself everywhere whether it was in the streets of the Senate? Thats my only gripe at the moment.