The Clone Wars: Episode 222: Lethal Trackdown Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Apr 27, 2010.

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  1. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I, for one, like the show getting darker. I don't mean it should be a bloodbath, but think about it: In A New Hope, did anyone complain about Darth Vader drugging Princess Leia? Or Han shooting Greedo? Or a million people dieing in an Imperial genocide on Alderaan?

    It's all make-believe. As long as they stick to off-screen deaths and very vague references to innappropriate topics, I think the show should stay at this level.
  2. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I'm still not liking Ponds' dismiss. They should have killed off that unnamed clone naval officer instead. Somehow it was a poor choice to kill off Ponds in that moment.
  3. CaptainYossarian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2003
    star 3
    Passing through customs was a bit of a head scratcher. If you're already on Coruscant, why do you need to go through customs?


    Perhaps if the underworld is a dangerous place it is prudent to record who goes in, in case they do not come out again. And they will know if anyone dodgy is going down there to hide.
  4. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Very interesting commentary from a parent of a young child.

    I'm a fairly new viewer of TCW, but a long-time Star Wars fan. I also came into TCW with the impression that it was mainly targeted for kids (age 6-11) but I've been quite surprised at some of the more violent and mature themes in the series. (Perhaps the market demographic has shifted and the story content likewise.)

    I saw the first Star Wars (ANH) at around age 4. The charred skeletal remains of Luke's guardians never quite registered for me until many years later. That and the scene of slaughtered jawas are probably the more graphic depictions of violence in a very kid-friendly movie.

    Hopefully, your son will not miss out on too many episodes in Season 3. I only see it getting better and better!
  5. Bly Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2005
    star 4
    Agreed. Mace didn't even seem upset at his right hand man's demise. I know Obi-Wan or Anakin would be saddened if Cody or Rex got killed.
  6. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    It worked a little for Mace, because he's not attached to his clones, unlike Anakin or someone who can easily get attached to someone. I couldn't see Mace reacting or saying something to the hologram, after Ponds got shot. But, for Ponds, it was terrible that they killed him off.
  7. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    Agreed. I think they did it for the reaction from the audience and it worked. Look at how all of us were "shocked" and "complained" about the death of Denal because everyone liked him, same here with Ponds.

    I was definitely hoping for more of a reaction by Mace though, I said this in my original post but Mace isn't as attached to his clones like other Jedi but a little bit of a better reaction would of made things a bit better. He was your second in command, show something Mace!
  8. fanboyskywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2008
    star 4
    I'm good with Ponds dying. There's a lot of characters and they can't all be killed off in the last episode.

    But on the negative side, I can't even rewatch this episode and enjoy it because of the stupidity of the whole "come and get me Mace!" and then not telling Mace where to find him. Grrr... terrible writing. No surprise who worked on this script...
  9. TCWNoLettersHome Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2009
    star 1
    That's as much EU as the EU, though. Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Visual Guide Ultimate Battles is a DK tie-in work to the Clone Wars . . . that means it is basically Clone-Wars-TV-show-centric EU, rather than EU about original characters (or other DK works that are film-centric EU).

    Either way, it was overseen by Licensing rather than being overseen directly by Lucas, Filoni, et cetera. The author could very well have just made up CC-6454 on his own, and Licensing would've had no reason to discount it. Now, however, we have the correct number (where "correct" means the number within TCW itself).

    Basically, to my mind, the best way to go about enjoying TCW is to enjoy it on its own along with the films . . . to paraphrase Lucas, I don't pay too much attention to the offshoot works that come out based on Star Wars. Even the tie-in webcomics, though written in part by TCW writer Henry Gilroy, could easily be overruled by the show without it being a contradiction (especially now that he's departed).

  10. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    Other than wookiepedia, what tells us in canon that force vision are particularly rare? Yoda has them, Anakin and Luke have them.

    It's not like Yoda seems surprised that Luke is seeing the future - it's more like he expects this as part of the standard training process.
  11. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Yeah, but it's their own EU.
  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I don't think it worked at all. For the Jedi, the clones are individual human beings, not soulless droids or something like that.
  13. Tordelback Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 2
    True, but this issue lies at the core of the Prequel Jedi, for good or ill. "Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them not. Miss them not". Attachment to anyone or anything is the path to the Dark Side - and as (EU) Mace skirts that path already, he most of all must avoid it. Mourning the dead, regretting their loss, craving vengeance, a Jedi must not do these things. No wonder Mace is a senior voice on the Council, he's as cool as a cucumber. No wonder Anakin annoys him so much, a Chosen one who's a walking mass of attachments and vengeful urges. Good stuff.
  14. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I don't think Mace is attached. We don't know if he believes that the clones are expendable,but as a Jedi Master, I don't think he's attached. Not like Anakin, though.
  15. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    Absolutely agree. I think that Mace is as moved by the death of a Zillo Beast as much as a Clone Commander or a Monkey Lizard.
  16. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The whole Ponds thing didn't bother me.

    I think everyone is agreed it was more surprising that a redshirt didn't die. [face_idea]
  17. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    If you're a clone fan like me, then you would've probably have been affected in some way after Ponds was executed like that. :p

    Usually, in TCW, if a clone says his name, and we've seen that clone in maybe two or less episodes, that clone is dead. It would have been funny, but sad, if that clone naval officer said his name to Aurra, and then gets shot. "Redshirt" clones are common in TCW.
  18. MvG-88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2008
    star 1
    Ah man, haven't posted here in ages ^^

    I really liked this episode, as well as the ones that came before.

    Personally, I was never a huge fan of Boba Fett, so I really don't mind that they follow up his appearance in ep. II, although I can see how people who liked him for the mystery would be pissed off. The only thing that kind of annoyed me was that he got away with a "naughty boy, if I catch you trying to kill me again I will become very angry with you". They handled the whole thing pretty well except that when we leave him he's in a position where he may learn a lesson and change his mind, not on the way down to become the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy.

    What dragged the whole package down was the voice work. Has Windu changed voice actor? He sounds far from as awe inspiring and authoritarian as he usually does, even in The Clone Wars. And Boba was horrible, for a role with so much emotione, there was barely any in his voice :confused:

    Also, I can't make up my mind about Dave Filioni's video commentary. On one hand it seems (like it has been pointed out before) as if he's fishing for street cred trying to push all criticism onto George. If he's on the team he should act professionally and make the best out of the situation as opposed to distancing himself from the criticism. On the other hand, I can't deny that it's nice to see that there is at least will to stand up to George's decisions, since his one man show was pretty much what dragged the PT down in the first place. Then again, talking and doing are two entirely different things, hopefully he's doing both.

    Lastly, WTF happened to Cad Bane? I remember at the end of season 1 people were all "Yeah he seems cool but I hope they don't overuse him", never would I imagine that a character that hyped would turn out to be underused. He appeared a few times in the beginning and then we saw no more of him o_O Not that I mind really, it's just a bit of an anticlimax. Overall I can't really make up my mind on the usage of villains in this season. It's certainly better than season 1 where they had the same three appear in every damn episode to the point where it bordered on ridiculous, but I still feel like we're missing out on some character development for Ventress, Grievous and Dooku. Love the return of Hondo though, I just hope he doesn't become too frequent.

    I also like how Ashoka has been toned down, not so much because I hate her (I don't) and want to see less of her, but mainly because it just fits her better. She's not a bad character, she can just be a bit too much if we constantly get her shoved in the face. Besides, I love the interaction she has with other characters in season 2.

    For season three I want to see some costume changes. I'm fine with postponing the gradual transition from clone armor to Jedi robe, but don't let it take too long. And get Ashoka a proper top, it was kind of disturbing the first time around, and though I've gotten used to it, it's still not OK. That and more Kit Fisto, season 3 needs more Kit Fisto!
  19. Gundark31 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2010
    star 1
    It does seem sometimes that Filioni is trying to pull a Gary Kurtz, which I think can really help the series since Lucas is not some magical deity that can do no wrong as the prequels have proven to many.

    In particular the Plo Koon/Clone Troopers/Grievous in space argument Filioni had with Lucas really makes me think the Clone Wars series would be better if Lucas was more hands off, some of the stuff that he was apparently responsible for in the series wasn't so hot.Ahsoka,Ziro the hutt,Jar Jar episodes and the avoidance of using alien subtitles or an opening crawl were all things Lucas added to the series from what I know(I might be wrong about some).

    Lucas should just be happy to sit back and rake in the money and leave the show to the other writers since they seem like they have the talent to handle the show.

  20. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    You do realize that most of the stories in the series have been written by Lucas himself, so the arguement that the show has been better when Lucas doesn't write. The man has been involved since the mid point of season 1.
  21. Kualan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2008
    star 4
    Lucas hasn't written episodes so much as thrown out ideas; "Let's do an episode where Dooku gets captured and has to team up with Anakin and Obi-Wan to escape", "Let's do a homage episode to The Seven Samurai", "Let's make a Saving Private Ryan-like episode set on Geonosis", etc etc.

    Any improvement/decline in the quality of writing as the seasons have unfolded is still down to the specific, credited, writers of the individual episodes.
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Hard to say.

    Filoni has said that Lucas came to them and told them "let's do a Boba Fett story; he's going to infiltrate a Cruiser and he's going to be working with Aurra Sing to get his revenge on Mace Windu".

    We don't know how much Lucas went into the details, but I'm pretty sure he's also the one that wanted the episode focused on Artoo.
  23. Sarli_brint Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2008
    I don't think it is as much Boba getting away with the naughty boy aspect as it is Boba will learn the lesson of how to do things much better next time, like not relying so much, if at all, on manipulative and needlessly brutal people like Aurra. The line he says while they are trying to get him to reveal the hostages location is very telling, IMO! "Why should i help anybody? I've got no one!"

    As for the voice acting, I also wondered about Mace's voice, but i think its the same voice actor, right? And, I can cut boba's voice actinga lot of slack as it was Daniel Logan's first time out as a voice actor.
  24. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    This was one of the seasons best episodes, by far. Really in thinking it over and breaking it down there is a lot of neat stuff to it.

    Aurra Sing clearly was the highlight. She exucutes two beings with perfect callousness, while carefully presenting a kind of maternal feeling towards Boba.

    There is more to this than we have seen I suspect, like why is Aurra sucking up to Boba? Does Boba have something she wants? Is she scared because she fears that Jango's allies might come for her if she doesn't treat him well? There has to be something in the way she's been presented, something more than her just being on a mommy kick.

    Also Aurra and Hondo was solid gold. I loved the sexual inuendo and their exchange of verbal teases. I thought it worked great, and felt very real compared to the very forced romance we're so often presented with in the series.

    "He's not mine is he?" Great comedic line from Hondo, very befitting of his wit. I think this episode was my favorite presentation of him thus far.

    The Lizard Monkey death match was too funny as well, a great little addition. Lots of awesome details like that made it inot the episode.

    Switching over to Plo and Ahsoka, I really liked both in this episode. Ahsoka is learning from a different teacher, again playing the the pairs friendship from the start of Season 1.

    "We are Justice" [face_laugh] I loved that line, as it was a part of the episode that really portrayed(probably unintentionally) the callousness the Jedi portray far to often. I do beleive that despite Master Plo's broad claim that the Republic does still have courts and judges to deal with offering justice to its citizens, and does not use the unilateral court of Jedi opinion for such matters.[face_laugh]

    The Coruscant undercity was brilliant, the mood lighting was perfect and there was just so much to see and hear. I loved how Ahsoka used the Force to pick up on conversations in the cantina, loved the mix of aliens and the Dexteresque barkeep.

    Mace was written terribly in the episode, thankfully he wasn't in it that much. His cool disreguard for the death of Commander Ponds raises all kinds of questions about him as a character and how he feels about the clones as a whole.

    As well I thought that Boba came across a bit too sympathetic for my tastes. Bossk was still all kinds of nothing. They might as well have not even used him.

    Slave-1 crashing and blowing up was a bit of a damper on the end fight, which I felt was otherwise quite entertaining. Aurra escapes, as does Bossk while the Jedi still save the day.

    All in all I thought it was a excellent season finale that rose above a lot of the weaker episodes of the Season, including the other episodes of the "Boba Trilogy".

    Edit: Oh yeah, coordinates 1579 is a reference to A New Hope is a little play off one the same numbers which get used when the Falcon first arrives on the Death Star. I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet as I only went through the last couple pages :)
  25. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Glad you liked it for a large number of reasons, Robimus. Of course, speaking as a pro-Jedi fan, while it's certainly very true that it can cover their broad callous assuming aspect, I must bring up that at the personal level, the statement does have some credit. The Jedi are there in order to address the destruction of an entire cruiser, and more importantly, to save two innocent lives while bringing their kidnappers to justice. Whether said justice is warranted, fair or accurate is up for debate, but it's hard to argue with the merits of saving two innocent people after their entire ship got crashed. ;)

    I do note that Plo Koon is often described as a Jedi with a rigid, black-and-white sense of right and wrong, so I thought that it was a very nice touch that they gave him that line. I really hope we'll see more distinctive features from the other Jedi in the series in ways that go beyond "Well, that's what all Jedi should be trained to say and do".
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