1. A Message For Everyone:

    TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels (or any show vs any other show) bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.
  2. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

TCW Episode The Clone Wars: Episode 302: ARC Troopers Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Sep 13, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 2, 2009
    I felt that the line of Star Destroyers looked a little silly. Space is 3D, and I'm just imagining the Banking Clan Frigates going above them or below them.
  2. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 29, 2002
    Kinda, though maybe they knew the exact coordinates the fleet would jump out of Hyperspace. Maybe it's detectable somehow?[face_thinking]

    This reminds me how in TESB the Rebel Transport escorted by two X-Wings chose to directly fly into the path of a Star Destroyer instead of avoiding it by taking a different escape route into open space.

  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Jul 7, 2009
    Escape from Hoth?
  4. fett51

    fett51 Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 17, 2008
    Presumably they were in geosynchronous orbit over Tipoca city, near the edge of the planet's gravity well. That's where I'd be if I was expecting an attack anyway, hopefully to catch them before they had a chance to coordinate and launch fighters after jumping in. Plus if they came in from any other direction the fleet could still get back to Tipoca city faster, presuming the ships are similarly matched for speed of course.

    ...yeah you can tell I play space strategy games can't you? :p
  5. Asharak

    Asharak Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 23, 2003
    I thought one of the best moments of the series was when Echo and Fives saw 99 being shot in the leg, and they both went ballistic and ran from cover to take the battle droids head on. The emotion of the scene gave me goose bumps.

    Even though the separatist lost in the end, I do thing that for the first time Grievous was shown to be a tactical genius. This was pretty much the most complicated battle ever shown in Star Wars. I thought it was also rather satisfying that he kicked Kenobi?s ass in their short battle.

    Anakin and Asajj`s first duel of the series was outstanding, though I think it was a mistake that the canister wasn?t destroyed in the end.

    Best battle in Star Wars since 1983

  6. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 8, 2009
    I agree about the canister. I would have loved for Asajj to have thrown it at Anakin, making him
    destroy it.

    I was happy that Grievous beat Obi-Wan, but I hated how he was poised to kill him and just gloated. Also, if Grievous outwitted Obi-Wan
    all these times, why does Obi seem so confident in ROTS? We complain about TCW ruining
    canon in the EU, but now it seems to be messing up canon in the movies as well.
  7. Rexter-fangirl

    Rexter-fangirl Jedi Youngling star 1

    Aug 14, 2010
    He probably would have just caught it with the Force though..[face_mischief]
  8. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Mar 30, 2003
    In TPM though in the gas-filled room he was probably able to concentrate more because he would have just been standing still until the door was opened. In this show he was fleeing for his life from droids so he would have been more stressed and using his air more quickly I suppose. It also didn't look like he had time to use his underwater breather. Assuming he did have one he could have got it out before exiting the sub but after that he was too busy swimming to escape.
  9. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 8, 2009
    Have we ever seen Obi-Wan put his rebreather in his mouth while underwater? Maybe you have to be out of water while putibg it in.
  10. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2005
    In a comic, yes. In ROTS, he put it on, but the audience didn't see it.
  11. Executor_of_Order66

    Executor_of_Order66 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Jul 14, 2009
    I really liked this episode but won't it have been cool if Grevious went to command center and killed the two bounty hunters with little effort just to demonstrate just how of an effective killer he is while also fighting Shaak-Ti. By the way where were the bounty hunters[face_thinking]

    Also is this episode why Ventress is ordered to be killed? We did see a clip at CV5 that said she was assumed killed in a different battle.
  12. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 2, 2009
    Silly then as well. Lois's quote from Something Something Something Dark Side was brilliant.

    "We are escaping into space with literally endless routes, however we have opted to escape directly through the fleet of star destroyers."

    I'm not against the concept. Fleets looks very impressive in the line and when they are squared off against the enemy on an even plane. I just find it to not be a tactically sound option from a real world perspective. I am willing to let the team do what they will, just if I had set up the fleet, I would have had the ships in a formation that showed the topside of the ships towards the enemy, rather than the bow.

    With the topside facing the incoming fleet, they present a larger profile, but are able to bring many more guns to bear than the opposing force. They sacrifice mobility for firepower, but are in a heavily entrenched position that gives them ample time to hit CIS ships as they exit hyperspace.
  13. WedgeWalker

    WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Aug 15, 2008
    I think it's a little early to cry foul at this. I mean, if this was the last time they fight until episode 3, that'd be one thing. But there's no doubt they'll face each other again. In those battles, Kenobi might very well win, giving him that confidence.

    I mean, presumably "Grievous Intrigue" and "The Deserter" take place after this. And we know how those confrontations turn out.
  14. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    May 18, 2002
    It's funny, because obviously when Kenobi and Grievous face off on Utapau in ROTS, it's supposed to be the first time they fight.

    Thus, "Fool! I was trained in the Jedi arts by Count Dooku!"

    Now that they've made a mockery of that meeting, why can't Grievous and Anakin meet during the series?
  15. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2005
    Hmm.. :p
  16. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Oct 15, 2008
    Well, some crack theories about this...
    1. Obi-Wan thinks Grievous simply copied moves from holos or from fighting several lesser skilled opponents, and a sudden proper training session with Dooku would rectify that belief
    2. Grievous thinks that by associating himself with Dooku, he gets instant 'street cred' to intimidate his opponents
    3. Obi-Wan will one day outright insult Grievous by comparing him to master duelist Dooku, prompting the future retort
    4. Grievous was conned by Dooku into thinking he now possesses the telekinetic abilities of a Jedi. It was all an elaborate prank the way Luke lifted Threepio in the Ewok village.
    5. Back in his days as an up and coming warlord on Kalee, Qymaen Jai Sheelal was known as Captain Obvious. :p
  17. SpecialOpsUnit

    SpecialOpsUnit Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 1, 2007
    Another small thing I noticed and loved was the addition of the communicators on the clone naval officiers.
  18. DBrennan3333

    DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling star 4

    Nov 5, 2004
    Good memory. That works. Even still, I don't really think that his lack of a breathing unit was a plot hole or anything - he might not have had it on him (maybe he learned his lesson here!) or it got jostled loose during the attack on his starfighter or whatever else. Some people don't have pens on them when they go into business meetings, so it's very possibel that he didn't happen to have a somewhat obscure breathing unit on him in this instance - for whatever reason.

    Does anybody else think that Grievous is being made into too much of a buffoon? The way I like to think of him is when he's deplaning from his spaceship on Utapau in ROTS (just before his holocom talk with Sidious). The way that awesome music kicks into gear and the way he's presented. Or the way he was in the original CW cartoons. There, he's a real badass, not just a clown foil for the Jedi. The way he is in TCW, you have to wonder if he got his lightsabers by just buying them off the black market rather than actually defeating Jedi.
  19. JediBendu

    JediBendu Jedi Master star 3

    Jan 13, 1999
    I loved this episode, lots of action, sabre duels and the space battle was extraordinary. I probably would have preferred it if Clone Cadets were placed in mid season 2 rather than immediately before this, but the naming of the episode obviously comes from the promotions that Echo and Fives get - Clone cadets -> Rookies -> ARC Troopers.. I wonder if there's an episode in between Rookies and Arc Troopers called 501st or something like that to show Fives and Echo as full troopers to cover their whole progress.

    As for some of the, um, issues described earlier up. I thought that when the clones shouted "It's the General!" it was because to them, whilst Obi-Wan and Shaak-Ti are generals, Anakin is THE General - a favourite - he's a warrior like them, he likes to be out in the field and he comes to their rescue. The other Jedi seem more distant, whereas I felt from this moment that the clones saw Anakin as close to them. It wasn't just the clones identifying him, it was applauding their hero. It gave me a horrible presentiment of him leading the 501st into the sack of the Jedi temple.

    And with the children with guns, yes I was surprised - I remember it was one of the no-no rules for Batman the animated series. And that image should give us pause and concern. But I think it was appropriate in this story - especially as it's not an uncommon image in the serials and pulps that Star Wars reflects. However I'm not sure it was entirely appropriate for a children's cartoon. On the other hand I don't think it is as "adult" an image as we like to think and certainly wouldn't concern, upset or confuse any of the young fans of the Clone Wars that I know in the way that a sex scene or obvious gore would.

    Oh, and on the line of Star destroyers, maybe Hyperspace entry and exit points tend to be on the ecliptic - because of something to do with the gravity wells - so most major space ports/bases would be near an equatorial line and it would create a seeming two-dimensionality to space engagements.
  20. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 11, 2009
    I definitely think there's room for improvement. He really should have more of a body count by now. But I also think that we're forgetting all of the good.

    1. We've seen him lead a ship that slaughters hundreds of clones.
    2. We've seen him back Kenobi in corner several times.
    3. We've seen him kill at least a few episode specific characters (Nahdar and Gha Nackt)
    4. He took down and tortured Eeth Koth (through smarts, not just might).
    5. We've seen him completely own Ahsoka (which I still say was probably scary for younger audiences)
    6. His strategies in using a spy R3 to infiltrate the Republic.
    7. This episode he basically out thought the Republic with his plan, and out thought Obi-Wan with his change of setting in the battle. Essentially he fought Kenobi to a standstill by using his magnetic feet to his advantage. If not for Ventress' failure, it would have been a perfect campaign.

    I don't think he's as impotent as everyone makes him out to be. He's just not presented as the "ultimate badass" everyone feels they deserve. He's more of a conniving and ruthless battle commander, which is on par with his ROTS presentation. Frankly, he's probably on par with most animated series returning villains. He's like Cobra Commander with fighting skills.
  21. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Oct 15, 2008
    Just to be clear, this is a topic that has been discussed at length, on this board, by fans of differing opinions, by casual people, by anti-Jedi groups, almost to death. You have no shortage of people who think Grievous is a wimp, newer impressionable folks who think he's even MORE badass, and with some effort, people who remain optimistic about his development.

    No it's not new, but yes, it is relevant, and you are not alone. :p
    Definitely agreed with you on all points.

    And speaking as someone who watched Season 1 on DVD awhile back, I made the following observations of him during the Malevolence storyline...
    -Well, all it takes is a plot shield and/or the awesomeness that is Plo Koon to leave behind a survivor of the Malevolence. ;)
    -When the Malevolence is boarded, I noticed that Grievous actually acts pretty quickly. He does his best to secure the hostage, he quickly notices and tracks down the communications occurring between the heroes, and he anticipates that the hyperdrive is in danger
    -The orders given by General Grievous are usually sound and logical except for one thing: His enemies have a tendency to do the unexpected (like, say, placing your artillery on ASTEROIDS). And if you tried tracking down the total number of villains who had trouble with [link=]the unexpected[/link], you'd probably get a migraine. XD

    Not to say that Grievous shouldn't step up his game. After all, a great villain makes for great stories, and there's always room for improvement. I just think that all things considered, he's not doing too badly. ;)

    EDIT: To have some relevance to Grievous as he appeared, I have to say that while his saber clashes with Obi-Wan weren't as flashy as Ventress against Anakin, he was outright BRUTAL with his cybernetics. Slamming him into a ceiling? Not fun at all for Obi-Wan (though I was impressed...this might be the first 2-hit Force Push we've ever seen on-screen, with the possible exception of Plo's pull-and-push back in season 1). I hope we see this become a part of his arsenal when fighting Jedi! =D=
  22. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Jun 24, 1999
    Obviously not a kid of the 80s.
    <img src="">
    In case you're wondering, Diana was, you guessed it, 14 years old. Same age as Ahsoka.

    And in that same 80s children's cartoon show, we also had Hank, the 15-year old boy who killed his enemies with an energy bow & arrow. And those were living creatures, not even droids...

    Is it because of that old D&D cartoon that the world is going down the drain?...
  23. SergeantDante

    SergeantDante Jedi Knight star 1

    Sep 17, 2008
    Well, this was a great episode. Not sure about the first meeting, and chalking that up to a mistake, as Grievous defeated both Ventress and Durge before being appointed to his position.

    Children with guns-> they're clones, it wasn't the Jedi's idea, and the Republic was never meant to be good. Adds some ambiguity, which is good.

    I think the way they compressed the battle was good, although a version stretched over two or three episodes would have been far better. Still, doesn't mean they didn't pull it off by focusing on the highlights.
  24. WedgeWalker

    WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Aug 15, 2008
    Well the quote from Grievous is open to interpretation. I'll concede that when first seeing episode 3 it sure felt like that line was suggesting they never fought before. That's what it felt like to me anyway. But there's a difference between implication and suggestion. It suggested to us it was their first meeting. But it didn't truly imply it.

    On the other hand, the Anakin quote does imply (not just suggest) he'd never seen Grievous in person.

    My point? The reason why they don't just have Anakin and Grievous meet is, it seems to me, because that would be a clear flat out contradiction with ep 3 (whereas Grievous and Obi-Wan fighting isn't).
  25. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Jun 24, 1999
    Amazing that you can accuse the clones of being based off of a blonde hair, blue-eyed guy at the same time that you show images of them with brown hair and hazel eyes.

    Incidentally, next person to personally offend someone gets a ban. You can discuss your ideas and criticize others' as much as you want. But confine to shooting down the ideas, not the posters. Call an idea idiotic, fine. Call someone and idiot, you're outta here.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.