Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 302: ARC Troopers Discussion Thread

I loved most of this episode, but am I the only one who sees the HIGHLY derivative nature of the Obi-Wan/Grievous fight? That was the Utapau fight 2.0; from the use of "doomed" to Obi's Force push to Grievous crawling away like a spider. The unoriginality of this show sometimes really bothers me.

Other than that, pretty cool. I loved the 'let the clones execute you right here' bit. There needs to be more flashes of his darker nature.

Really? I kinda enjoyed that simply because it reminds me why it is that Grievous is bested by Obi-Wan so easily in ROTS...Ben has seen all his tricks before. Who better to take him down on Utapau than the guy who has fought more than anyone else?

But I will agree that this episode was not as good as the premiere. Here, I'm expecting an arc on Kamino and what do I get?? A one shot! lol Anyway, pretty good, not SUPERB, but still a good watch. animation has improved a hella lot and so has some the writing.

Edit: I actually thought this Grievous ObiWan fight was better than most of the ones we have seen but that is probably the result of a better budget this season.

I don't know how much has been said about the removed kiss, but I like that they managed to keep Ventress' sexuality in tact in her exchange with Grievous.

In a way her parting line was far more provocative than a simple kiss.



As far as Obi-wan/Grievous being derivative? I think it makes perfect sense as it sets the tone and MO's for their future encounter.

It also suggests that Obi-Wan can adapt while Grievous sticks to the same failed strategies (said sadly).

I agree. While the Anakin x Ventress duel was simply amazing, with some very cool moves, the Obi-Wan x Grievous fight seemed like just a rehash of their Utapau encounter. We had the reveal o fthe four arms, the lightsaber windmill, the catchphrases, the crawling away on all fours. Quite unimaginative.

Boy, I was listening to the Frontlines podcast review of this episode, and I just wanted to yell at the guy. He goes off on a long rant about how he feels it was very wrong that Echo and Fives made it seemed like a long time had passed between Rookies and ARC Troopers. He complains that their armor is suddenly too customized, too battle-worn, that they talk about Kamino as if they hadn't been there in almost a year. He complains that all of this is inconsistent with the fact that ARC Troopers obviously takes place only a couple of days after Rookies. It's amazing how he ignores all of this as clues to the fact that ARC Troopers takes place a good while after Rookies, simply because he decided one led straight into the other.

IMO, in a vacuum and based on its own merits, this episode is amazing. It's fun and action packed, varying settings from space, to the city (with sunlight!), to beneath the ocean's surface. Heavyweights like Grievous and Ventress return and we get that great moment where Anakin and Ventress duel as Obi-Wan and Grievous do the same. The moment where Anakin walks in on Ventress and lights the saber is very cool.

More of the Echo and Fives story is good to see, as it seeing them, 99, and the young clones teaming up with Rex and Cody to take down the droids. While it never reaches the epic quality of "Landing" last year, it's still exciting from beginning to end. It does have some continuity issues, of course, as EU fans probably would be annoyed that the other Battle of Kamino didn't get a mention and the changes with the ARC trooper origin. It does look like some of it was inspired by that comic, though, but more fitting to the show.

99's fate was rather obvious, but still resonant as a retelling of that age old story of the "defective" person getting their chance to step up and contribute. I was sad to see him go. Can't wait to get the chance to watch the three Domino Squad episodes in order.

What I liked about the duel here though was that I felt that it showed the Grievous character animation has evolved to the point where it can imitate many of the movements we see the CG Grievous do in ROTS and Genndy's series.

The Obi-Wan/Grievous fight was kinda meh (how many times are those two going to duel by the end? Without even really thinking about it, we have this one, the one on Malevolence, and obviously the RotS duel... and I'm pretty certain that I'm forgetting at least one (probably obvious) duel). That said, the Anakin/Ventress fight was pretty well done, and I really liked the interaction with 99, a surprisingly good character. His death was predictable, but still well done - he may be defective physically, but his heart is still there and he's still got some of Jango's attributes that we see in the clones.

The one thing I didn't like about this episode is just the continuity issues with the previous attack on Kamino which we saw in the comics - are there two attacks on Kamino now, or are they supposed to be the same, or what?

The one of "Grievous Intrigue". And that little clash on "The Deserter". But I agree. These Obi-Wan/Grievous constant duels are getting ridiculous.

One of the worst things is that Grievous can match Obi Wan, whereas in ROTS he's nothing in comparison.
Obviously Obi Wan improves in skill throughout the war, but surely the good general should also improve as he slaughters more Jedi, so having Obi Wan suddenly outclass Grievous is strange. It's especially annoying that overall Grievous has duelled in a far superior fashion to ROTS.

I forgot about Grievous Intrigue. The little one from The Deserter is barely worth mentioning, but it still just goes to show how they're really adding up. How many more will there be?

Meh, it worked for Luke and Vader. It worked for Anakin and Dooku. Maybe like those two old farts, Grievous is an old dog who refuses to learn new tricks.

That's the difference between Jedi and cyborgs. Grievous's reflexes are vpartially hardwired - Obi-Wan's are human with the force - in many ways the ROTS novelisation best describes that - Obi-Wan becomes the apotheosis of his lightsabre style - not just the physical side but within the force too. He can reach true mastery whereas grievous can just copy it.

Great description, JediBendu - my thoughts exactly.


EDIT: Was it in Labyrinth of Evil or maybe the Genndy cartoon where Dooku is training with Grievous and tells him his greatest skills are the surprise and terror his appearance causes, and he might get in trouble if he no longer has that effect on his opponents?

Funny, I thought Obi-Wan won because he shot Grievous.

With a gun.

Genndy. Surprise, intimidation...and unorthodox fighting styles...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!

After he'd chopped off two of Grievous' hands in their lightsaber duel and forced Grievous to run, yes.

Still not really sure how Ventress got on the planet, what with the blockade and all.

Also, laughed when Ventress is all like "get the aqua droids to assemble the ships", then 5 minutes later, there's like 25 fully-functioning squid ships.

Were they simply stuck in the debris and the aqua droids were just letting them out? Makes much more sense this way.

That's what I assumed. Either that or they were designed for exceptionally quick assembly... but why would they need to be assembled in the first place?

To avoid being recognized by sensors, maybe?

Also, I don't think we got to see the full obi-wan vs. Grievous fight, there's at least one obvious cut.

I didn't get the impression that Grievous was planning to run until Kenobi's army showed up.

Well, between that Grievous disarmed Obi-Wan and was beating him up pretty bad.
Plus, if what you said was true, then Grievous should never have been able to kill Jedi, but he has.


In the end, battle is chaotic, and sometimes there is no reason for one person winning over another. Everyone has bad dies, and a bad day fighting can cost you your life.

Possibly the design is very modular and can be assembled as easily as snapping legos together.

As for how Ventress got there...good question. The old, "pretend to be a meteorite" trick mayhaps. Or a cloaked cruiser dropped her off.

Just saw this episode for the first time last night, loved it!

One thing I don't get is why Grievous came back to rescue Ventress, I would've left her ass there.

DNA?