Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 302: ARC Troopers Discussion Thread

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Everybody's cool with a show for children featuring child characters firing guns (at the camera) with sinister looks on their faces?

This is a show feigning realistic action, not goofy Loony Toons-type action. I guess that, once nobody was bothered with them showing Ahsoka in salacious midriffs making sexually coy comments, they figured, "Why not have a bunch of heroic little boys fire assault rifles at unsuspecting enemies!" "Awesome idea! Maybe in the next week, we can have 'em pushing little old ladies down a flight of stairs, too!" "Sweet!"

 

There is no evidence that those clones were from the 501st, and it would be an astronomically huge coincidence (considering all the clones on Kamino) if they were. I never said that they were the 501st, you just assumed it.

So you're dead wrong.

 

There was only one Jedi there, i.e. in the immediate vicinity. If either a) Several Jedi had turned up with Anakin or b) The clones were already fighting under the direct command of one Jedi (e.g. Shaak Ti), then yes 'The general' would have been inappropriate - heck, it would have been outright insubordinate to the other Jedi!

But like I said, whether you consider it a grammatical debate or 'simple stuff', this isn't really the time or place to be arguing the toss about it - and given the intrinsic nature of message board 'debates', it's likely that neither side is going to give up on their point of view anyway. After all, we don't want to devolve into an argument which requires the interference of a moderator, only for someone to post 'The moderators are here!' and for the debate to start all over again

 

I'm really, really, really dreading reading any 'Star Wars' fanfic right now. People cannot wrap their heads around when it's the right time to say "the" or "a".

 

Quick question: Did the sqied ships come from the debris or were they there the whoe time with Ventress?

 

It seemed Ventress was there for some time with a small attack force while Grievous brought everyone else.


Also I can't believe people are complaining about the clone cadets firing weapons, this is war and they are bred for war. Simple as that. Grow up.

 

The last line was just a joke... but really, in the long scheme of things, does the grammatical structuring of such a small and ultimately insignificant line matter? However, on the same trail of thought, if that was your only complaint about the episode then I guess Filoni and co. can rest easy.

They were assembled from the debris by the aqua droids that Ventress had on her original 'squid ship'.

 

I assumed according to what he said, and the way he said it.

Proof?

 

First off, there weren't "people" complaining. I was the only one who said anything and I'm just one dude. So you didn't start off too hot.

But beyond that, your reasoning makes no sense. Well, that's not true, it makes sense, it's just that it's psychotic. You say that, because something happens, then it should be on a children's cartoon. By that rationale, children's cartoons should also feature wild sex scenes, too, 'cause people have wild sex. By that rationale, the Cartoon Network should show kids smoking crack, 'cause, tragically, some kids to that, too.

Then you commanded me to "grow up". So "growing up" to you means wanting to watch children firing assault rifles. Ummm....I think I'll stay immature, chief.

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See: the past ten posts.

 

Stupid nitpicking, that's all that is about...

 

I think stuff like that is what makes the show work. (For me, any way.)

There is some dark, disturbing stuff wrapped up in a kid's show packaging. War is bad. Breeding clones specifically to fight and die is worse. Having child clones fighting in a war is even worse. I keep watching to see what they'll get away with next.

And the funny thing is that they can justify it to the Cartoon Network censors by telling them it's just robots and the children aren't really hurting anything.

...James Cameron is a skirt-wearing sissy compared to Filoni!

 

I agree, man.

 

Clone kids shouldn't use guns? The clone kids are bred and trained to use weapons and fight for a reason. How does this compare to kids smoking crack, etc.? It's not to say it isn't supposed to be somewhat controversial, the clones themselves are, but it's not like they threw some guns just any kid and said 'Go shoot something and have fun'.

 

It's the Clone Wars, not the Clone Happy, Cheery Times. I'd rather they portray war realistically and slap a TV-PG rating down than censor it. It isn't like it's the first time we've seen children be placed in situations that should have been too mature for them in Star Wars.

...and I can't stand James Cameron, but that's a another story entirely.

 

It appears I've made a terrible, terrible mistake. I thought you were an overly-sensitive grammar enthusiast, but it seems you take an irrational and over-the-top stance on any opinion you possess. For the sake of fellow forummers wishing to read relevant information and opinions about the episode, and common sense in general, I'm going to make this my last reply to your wild and ridiculous assertations.

I agree - breeding a 'race' of clones to fight in a war can easily be argued as immoral. Having children indoctrinated to do nothing but fight and die for a cause they know little about - and to then portray it on a television show - is equally dark and disturbing.

But what people have to remember is that TCW is portraying a universe that is 'a world apart' from our own; the Republic is not a benign construct, and elements such as children being taught and trained from birth - or 'production' as a Kaminoan might put it - are not meant to be universally accepted as 'awesome' or 'cool'. We are all, as viewers - both children, teenagers and adults - meant to question the morals of this fictional universe. We're meant to think "Children? Taking part in a war? That's not the sign of a great utopian democracy"; we're meant to discuss and debate the answers to moral questions concerning the ethics of the Jedi, or the blind devotion of the clones.

What we shouldn't be doing, however, is saying "Well they should never have shown that". After all, some of those who take that standpoint are the very same people who complain when they think the show is too 'dumbed down'.

 

Really interesting that they're addressing the "clones of clones" issue following the death of Jango, and that they talk about (and show) that there are rejects. Really cool episodes, and cool that the first one turned out to be a prequel.

 

I mean, you're just stating the obvious. Everybody knows that the clones are born and bred to kill, just like everybody also knows that Anakin and Padme have sex. Who ever disputed this?

....The issue is whether it's appropriate to show this imagery on a show expressly aimed at kids. Is it okay for them to show a naked Anakin and Padme a'la 'Wild Things'? Ummm, I don't think so.

Like I said, for 'Terminator 2' - which was not for kids (rated R) and it also featured a kid being raised in warfare (his mom was a terrorist who blew up defense contractor headquarters) - Cameron and Wisher have both talked about how they vowed to never show John Connor (who was also older than the cadets appeared to be, too) even pointing a gun at all.

Did John Connor fire guns? Obviously, yeah. But the filmmakers didn't want to normalize the imagery of kids with guns - especially firing them. (If they had, Americans probably would've boycotted the movie back in 1991. Now? Things are different.)

Again, this is just basic stuff.

I mean, I guess it just gets down to the decreasing morality and desensitization of the culture. (And I'm not necessarily saying that that's even a bad thing.) I remember when I was a kid, the closest thing that I saw to an exposed woman were lines in their blouses indicating large breasts. Now, you regularly see female characters who are straight out of the red light district on after-school-type cartoons - even Ahsoka's dress would've been unthinkable when I was a kid in the late-80's and early-90's. And now, apparently, the decreasing window of what's unacceptable has shrunk to its smallest point yet. Now, according to Lucasfilm and the Cartoon Network it's also okay to show kids firing guns....on a children's cartoon!

 

Clone kids using guns in this context was fine, like 99 said they were in fear of all getting killed. Also I think it's okay because of the reason this show can be shown on Cartoon Network at all, mostly they are killing DROIDS. If the clones were mowing down people every week there's now way they could air it. Also remember this is Star Wars where Anakin killed a room full of younglings and clones shot that kid Jedi, bad things happen! It's a war.

 

James Cameron's last movie made 41-times as much money as Filoni's last movie.

James Cameron has had five wives, all of whom were smoking hot and three of whom who still publicly pine for him. He has four great kids.

James Cameron has no fewer than six engineering patents to his name personally.

James Cameron is an award-winning illustrator who was routinely commissioned as an illustrator before he made his movies.

James Cameron is from a poor Canadian family whereas Dave Filoni is from a rich American family. (I'd be willing to bet money that Filoni's garage is bigger than Cameron's childhood home.)

Dave Filoni is a dude who speaks with a thick lisp and, well, I don't think that women respond to him like I know they respond to Cameron (and....I kinda doubt that Filoni would respond to women, either).

Comparing the virile Canadian James Cameron to lisping American Dave Filoni is like comparing a meal at a White House banquet to pills of rat poison.

 

And thus your inability to detect humour is proven.

 

Weapon use and sex scenes, not the best comparison for 'suitable TV' for kids/families. Like I said, it's not like it's not supposed to be controversial, but I don't think trained kids defending themselves with weapons (which aren't even real) in war time needs censoring. And like rezpen said, it's droids. And it's Star Wars, and it's PG. I don't see the big deal.

 

It's bizarre that you were thinking about censorship. I was just talking about people making a cartoon for kids having some integrity and responsibility. (Like Cameron did, only his movie wasn't intended for kids.) So, once again, you're talking about something that nobody else disputed.

And the fact that it's "PG" (not really, but it about equates to that) is all the more reason that a bunch of little boys firing assault rifles at the camera with sadistic smirks on their faces is really creepy.

But, hey, if you like watching little boys with guns, that's your business.

 

Yeah, the only way this could have been inappropriate or controversial is if they should the kids shooting living beings, or if the kids themselves were getting killed in the battle. Which from my memory they didn't show.

In the end it seems more like pathetic nitpicking.

 

That's cool. By that rationale, there's absolutely no reason that TCW shouldn't feature some hot, sweaty, passionate Anakin-on-Padme action.

It's very, very, very creepy that grown men here can watch imagery of little boys - 8? 9? - firing guns at the camera (at you!) with joyful sneers and not be creeped out and think that that's, at the best, classless and irresponsible of the show makers. At worst, it's pathetic and disgusting.