The Clone Wars: Episode 305: Corruption Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Oct 5, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lady_Skywalker87 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 4
    :(

    What makes sad is that so few seem to understand the compelling politics in this episode despite the stupid scenario.
  2. DarthJoe92316 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Agreed, Lady Skywalker. It is really quite a dissapointing observation to see so many seemingly relagate Star Wars to, "I wantz moar Explosions!" or "Moar Lightsabers!" When Star Wars is, and can be, so much more. Now, I do not speak for the Saga, nor all the fans, but with all the complex Episodes Dave Filoni and company have presented us over the course of the series thus far, it had been my hope that the fans could sit back and understand the subtle messesages and character studies "Corrupted" presented.

    Regretfully, it seems such a thing is beneath the time of most of those who watched episode 305 and posted in regards to how "Boring" they found the episode (which is the most prevailant complaint) or how the plot "Made no sense," when, in point of fact, there was a very indepth plot that simply required one to pay attention to not only the smuggler's actions, but everyones, especially Satines.

    However, as mentioned, I do not have the power to make others see this fantastic Episode of TCW for what it really achieves. Aside from some fellow watchers close to me who, after a conversation or two, sat down, rewatched the Episode, and actually saw for themselves all the points I made in a previous post concerning the merits of "Corruption," it seems all I can do is sit back and watch this trully great and complex Episode get relegated to the scrap heep. A great, great Pity as such negetive critism could very well lead to deep episodes like this being pushed aside and discontinued altogether in favour of putting in "Moar Explosions."
  3. Nitroz Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2010
    It may sound really silly to say this but I think Duchess Satine should have changed her clothes. The elite of Naboo and Mandalore both seem to share a fondness for a classier level of extravagance, tradition, and display of art within daily life. In the manner that Padme is always presenting a new appearance, I think the Duchess should have done similar.

    As far as the corruption/politics, I'm guessing that since this is likely before Death Watch causes any significant chaos, and Mandalore is neutral, no Separatist vs. Republic action would take place, so we're just seeing typical greed-based crime during wartime... "I pay u, u do this, don't get caught, we're good"....which kinda shows a different civilian sort of perspective... but this is Clone Wars! We wanna see powerful armies commanded by uncanny villains, practitioners of the Force and other mysticism to aid whichever side they stand by....Savage Oppress, Durge, Republic Commandos, Qunlan Vos...fighting the actual war.
  4. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    It's kinda sad isn't it that those who don't agree with your opinions simply were not paying attention....because if they were they clearly would see things your way......because its just a matter of paying attention. Am I right?

    I'd love to hear you explain why Satine's elite military forces need to be saved by Padme, or why Satine personally needed to lead her troops in both the investigation and battle, or why a Mandalorian soldier nearly giving his life to help Satine would be threatened by her as if he hadn't gained her trust by nearly giving his life for his people?

    And clearly the thing to do in any investigation is to instantly burn any and all evidence that may lead one to others who were involved. Thats how police investigations work right? Police don't tape off areas and call in investigators to look for clues........they burn everything to the ground in a blind rage.

    Subtle messages and character studies? Come on, this episode was as subtle as what the Death Star did to Alderaan. I seriously doubt that your rewrite about how this epiosde is showing Satine breaking down and losing her mind is really what the creative team has in mind.

    Attempting to create a complex political episode that is character driven and pulling it off are two very different things. I'll give you that this may have been the goal of this episode but it failed. It was presented is such a simplistic manner, one that required established characters to constantly be out of character, that I just can't possibly understand what you saw in it.

    That said many don't get what I see in Bombad Jedi, so to each there own, but if you really want to value the opinions of others(as you said you do) that doesn't start with insulting people who don't share your views in the manner you just did. Maybe think on that.
  5. Rossley Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2009
    star 1
    It's possible for a viewer to fully understand the nuances of what's going on in one of the more politcs-heavy episodes and still not find it particularly interesting or compelling.
  6. episodenone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2001
    star 4
    All I can say to that -- is that as a kid -- I LOVED GI Joe, He-Man, The Transformers...... ;)
  7. Artoo-Dion Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    I need to see the episode again, but my initial impression was that it was a pleasant enough way to spend 20 minutes, with some great material happening under the surface. Frankly, while I don't mind action occasionally, it's the quieter, more introspective moments that ground SW, and TCW always offers food-for-thought when it comes to the larger implications of ideas only hinted at in the films.

    In any case, I really can't understand the level of anger some display here. OK, so you didn't like it. Life goes on. It's really not going to lead to happiness if you're overly invested in your own conception of what TCW should be. Remember, attachment leads to the Dark Side! ;)

    So just relax and enjoy it. Or don't. But it's not life or death, here.

    And DarthJoe92316, thanks for a very interesting post. I'll reread it once I rewatched the episode.
  8. DarthJoe92316 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2010
    In point of fact, I did leave a post concerning my observations of this episode, the ramifications of the plot, and the actions and reasonings of Duchess Satine on page 9 of this thread. Perhaps you should have checked before posting a response. As to your snarky comments about how I am right and everyone is wrong; that was myopic and uncalled for on your part. I never said that my view was the only correct one, I stated that it was simply disheartening that others c
  9. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    While I agree that a certain degree of realism is a very good thing, SW is still supposed to be an escape from the troubles of society, not a reminder of them.
  10. Artoo-Dion Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    I think that's truer for the OT than the PT, with the latter being a very deliberate attempt to explore issues of corruption and political manipulation. It's no surprise that TCW would follow the PT's lead.

    But even the OT had a through-line of a son struggling with the realisation that his father was weak and flawed. This isn't Shakespeare, but it has always had larger thematic points underpinning the space adventure facade.
  11. Darth_Calgmoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2006
    star 2
    Well, yeah, you are right to an extent there. But we all should keep in mind that Star Wars as a whole is more complex than this stuff (else we won't watch and talk about it as adults), and the Clone Wars are, too, I'm afraid. The Galactic Civil War would be the better material for a simple good vs. evil story. The Clone Wars have the stupid subtlety of the Sith plot, and an enemy who is actually not evil in the way the Empire is evil later on. The Republic is just as evil as the Separatists, and the Jedi shape the Empire with everything they do.

    Also, despite the fact that the movies are all named 'Star Wars' we actually get little direct war or battles in there. So I actually never expected the series to be consisting only of battle episodes.
  12. Lady_Skywalker87 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 4

    Most good fiction though, in any form, consist in reminding us or open our eyes to the troubles of society and/or moral issues(which SW in general has a lot of) as well as exploring possible problems in the future.
  13. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    The title 'Corruption' points just as much to Satine.

    So in retrospect, it was a good title after all. Probably the only good thing about the episode too.

    Although I must say, if they wanted to portray how the war is corrupting even the best people (like Satine), then they succeeded. I understand you can't be too subtle in a 20 minute episode that's supposed to be for kids too, but I think in Satine's case they really overdid it.
  14. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    I am by no means sating SW should be free of real-world problems. But even the PT managed to maintain some of the escapism of the OT.

    As a whole, this show is succeeding, but some episodes, like Corruption, are filled to the brim with the troubles of the real world.

    In short, IMO, there should be about 60% fantasy escapism and 40% political elements.
  15. Artoo-Dion Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    I think one of the great things about TCW is that they can dedicate a whole 20 minutes to a single issue or aspect of the SW universe. For the most part, they disguise the heavier elements in Flash Gordon-style antics, but occasionally it pays to be a bit more explicit.

    As long as it doesn't turn into Star Trek (and it never will--GL and co. just aren't that sanctimonious), I'm happy.
  16. Armchair_Admiral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    I like it when SW does stories about mundane things every once in a while, but all I ask is that heads of state and senators leave the dirty work in those affairs to lower-ranking people. It gets tiresome when VIPs keep on saving the day when it's not their job to do so (like it is for the Jedi). [face_tired]
  17. TheLucasAdvocate1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2010
    star 2
    Fair enough it's not their job to intervene, but wouldn't that make for an even duller story if they did nothing? And both Padme and Satine are proactive when it comes to issues like poisoned kids, if anything it would be a bit OCC for either of them to just sit back and let someone else take care of the issue at hand.
  18. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I have to say that trying to devote an episode to political-related stuff doesn't really work. I think politics in SW (or any fictional universe for that matter) take a lot of details and time to explain, and that's not something that goes well into a 20 minute TV episode. It works nicely in books such as Cloak of Deception or Isard's Revenge because a book gives you what you need to set up a political scene, but not in TCW.
  19. Armchair_Admiral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    What's preventing a story from focusing on the minor characters? Rookies was one such story which worked very well; why not something from the POV of Mandalorian law enforcement or something, with only a few brief appearences by Satine?
  20. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    This episode wasn't as terrible as I thought it would be, but it was still pretty pointless.

    Whoever said they could have spent 1 minute on this episode in the voiceover section is right.

    And I literally lol'd when Satine & Padme would bounce back and forth between their "formal" costumes, their "other formal" costumes, and their "action" costumes. It was pretty jarring.

    The new Padme model is great though. Voice actor still bores me, but then I found AOTC/ROTS Portman to be pretty boring too.

    The whole "burn down the warehouse" thing was probably stupid but I think the point was that Satine couldn't trust the police to do a true investigation. Also lol'd when the police just "happened" to have flamethrowers sitting around in their vehicles.

    Calling in Padme was pretty hilarious too("I will fight to remain neutral....but please help us!"), and of course Padme had to jump in there and start firing away. The police captain refusing to believe what his ruler witnessed just beggared belief to me. If I was Satine, I would have fired him right there.[face_talk_hand]


    And the decision to place a Jedi in The Academy - why? How does this make any sense? How does this help with the corruption? The poisoning of the children was only incidental and wasn't part of a huge conspiracy, so Satine's decision to get a Jedi in there just doesn't make sense.


    Overall, I don't think it was the worst episode of all time, it was definitely better than Senate Spy & Senate Murders. But: it just really seemed pretty pointless to me. Again, the choice of episode debuts is very strange, and coming on the heels of Supply Lines and Sphere of Influence, it's just three laidback episodes in a row.
  21. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Yes and I read your rewrite of the story, it just thats not what was presented onscreen. What your presenting is a hypothetical, reading an aweful lot into the episode that really I don't see there what so-ever.

    As to the claim that you were not trying to be rude..........your statements speak for themsleves.

    Yes, everyday President Obama and various dignitaries from other nations are teaming up to creep around in alleys and engaging in combat to fight crime...........

    Time will tell but I'd be very surprised if the title of this episode ends up having anything to with Satine. I think thats just wishful thinking.
  22. FalorWindrider Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2010
    star 4
    I hate these episodes, partly because every single character is a strawman political. Padme and Satine are paragons of incorruptible pure pureness who hate war and taking sides, which are always bad. Almec is a useless bureaucrat. Government officials outside of main characters do nothing but posture in front of one another. Investigative committees are ALWAYS bad. The police chief is ineffective, the customs official (and its implied the entire Mandalorian customs service) is on the take. Seriously, does every episode have to employ a hurricane of exaggerated political cliches to look complex?

    Honestly, Satine comes off looking like a real idiot in this episode. At the end, she finally has the evidence she needs to prove corruption on Mandalore and what does she do? She orders her elite mooks to burn the cache of the evil drugs! Did she enter government yesterday? In regimes that are, you know, not tyrannies, generally accusations of wrongdoing are backed by evidence. What the hell? And guess what? That stuff wouldn't even had been on Mandalore if her unflinching neutrality hadn't forced people to start buying from the creepy green guys wearing ancient Egyptian headdresses (unfortunate implications much?).
  23. Darth_Gamek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2009
    star 6
    The New Mandalorians didn't buy from the Moogan, the Moogan came on their own dime, as far as I was concerned.
  24. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I don't think Star Wars never was meant to be escapistic- but like all good stories it has meaning behind it- it takes us to fantasy world yes- but purpose of fantasy worlds is to understand real life with help of symbolistic happenings that mirror the real life and history- that's why i like SW- it is not completely just fiction and escapism (would be very boring) but it has similarities to real life- not too obvious but they help you to do right choices in real life if you think their deeper meanings...
  25. AnakinBrego Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 3
    What I think is weird is that Satine ordered her officer to burn everything, he spoke up against it because it was evidence, which made perfect sense! There's no logic to her action!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.