The Clone Wars: Episode 305: Corruption Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. Vympel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2002
    star 2
    I'm just ... puzzled ... at these attempts to make out that Corruption isn't painfully stupid, juvenile, simplistic nonsense - but rather a complex political tale! I mean ... really? In spite of all the very obvious reasons why the story completely doesn't have any credibility or internal logic?
  2. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    The officer wanting to save evidence makes perfect sense and Satine wanting to destroy it makes no sense....UNLESS Satine has something to hide. Or if she doesn't want evidence of corruption within her government becoming public knowledge further weakening her control on an already tenuous political situation on Mandalore.
  3. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Yes these defensive comments claim that it was politics what was wrong in this episode- no way politics were very simple- I have nothing against complex political episodes (Senate spy, Supply Lines, Senate Murders and Sphere of Influence worked better)- but in this episode it was plain stupidity that was wrong- idea of political plot and corruption is great- but why they had to ruin this idea like this- Satine seems to be completely senseless- smugglers and their scientist were fools when they failed in their attempt and poisoned that tea- that wasn't their intention anyway.... we need sense with politics- I am really amazed how they can write episodes like this- there is million ideas and they did something like this... idea was ok- but plot was poor- if this episode would have had bad looks- or new animation models wouldn't have been created- this would have been worthless- now it was ok because it looked good and has tons of new models- i hope they will use those models better in the future....
  4. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Satine didn't want to leave an easy evidence- because she wanted Obi-Wan to solve the case :p -

    And she gets Ahsoka [face_laugh] Or perhaps Satine was just impulsive and bit stupid..... mandos need a new ruler....
  5. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    The more I consider it, the more I think the CW creators could really be onto something with this Satine-the-arson business. Especially if Almec might end up being a traitor just like Tal Merrick, and she's got an entire moon of enemies Watching her right above her head. Satine might have the best interests of her planet at heart, but in order to stave off all these traitors and stick by what she believes in, she might end up being corrupted in a completely different manner.


    Although the show thus far seems pretty set in drawing the definitive line between good and evil, so I doubt it will go that far.


    (Unless those spy kids Ahsoka's training in the next episode become Satine's very own Big Brother operation...)
  6. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    The preview for the next episode shows Satine with Ahsoka as Ahsoka is tossing people into walls... This implies that Ahsoka is protecting Satine from someone(s).
    I like this idea and it seems like it could be an intriguing storyline...unless the TCW creators just tossed some convoluted idea out there with no real thought to how it would play out.
  7. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Who knows? That's part of the subtext I got about Satine and the episode's theme as well. They'd probably keep the line pretty clear, but I have a feeling that where they take Satine by the end of this story might help define just what they're capable of. XD

    Thought I'd add that TVTropes attempted to offer an explanation for Satine's arsonist tendencies: Traditionally, Mandalorians are very protective of their children, even if they're not related directly. Satine was acting on that impulse. Not a smart decision, but that's the feeling behind it. :p
  8. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I think it's very evident that 'Corruption' not only refers to the state of affairs on Mandalore, but also to the very morals of its ruler. The episode clearly shows how the war is corrupting her pacifist ideals. So, it's Satine who is corrupted, but not in a sense of her secretly being the villain.

    I'm not saying this in defense of the episode, because I thought it was very weak, but this much is clear to me. My main gripe is that it could have been done with more subtlety.
  9. FistoFan93 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2009
    star 4
    Subtlety was never any of your strong points, Anakin...uh I mean..Satine.
  10. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Star Wars was absolutely meant to be a form of escapism, there's no doubt about it. It's just that most people have a very narrow view of what constitutes escapism. Escapism, at its finest, is not a means to simply forget about your world and vacate your mind for a few hours. Escapism removes you from your reality, showing you the same problems you face in your life through a new perspective, thus allowing you to actually SEE them. You escape your world not to forget about it, but to experience an image of it in a non-disensitized way, so that when you get back to it you can better tackle its issues.

    And that's why Star Wars is diminuished when an issue such as corruption is dealt with in pretty much the same petty way it would be dealt with in real life. Following that logic, the classic trilogy would have been about a young man who leaves his over-protective home to try his luck in the big city, tries to gain success in his chosen career while dealing with an abusive father who abandoned him and occasionally returns to molest him. Wouldn't that have been great?
  11. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    How'd you get that? Anakin didn't abandon Luke - Anakin didn't even know he existed. It's be more like some guy having a one night stand and finding out about a kid he never knew he had because the mother got killed and was never able to tell him...
  12. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah well, it's a good analogy nonetheless IMO.
  13. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    You're missing the point. Escapist stories shouldn't be just the mundane story set in a fantastic setting with new protagonists. Escapism simply grabs the core issues from the mundane story and translates those into a fantastic, often epic narrative.
  14. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    No one else agrees with me that Satine burned the warehouse because she couldn't otherwise be sure the poison wouldn't be used again?
  15. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Why would it? The tea-salesmen were killed or arrested. Would anybody really buy the "poisoned tea" brand again in the near future? The thing to keep in mind is that this wasn't a terrorist plot, nobody was out to kill the children, who would then find a way to steal that tea shipment and continue their evil plot. It was all just one big mistake (in more than one sense).
  16. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    I can see the villian hiding in the shadows. "HaHa! They didn't destroy my evil, poisoned tea! I'll be able to use it again to poison children! They'll never suspect poisoned tea a second time! Haha!"
  17. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Exactly. It doesn't make sense to fear that someone would steal that shipment and go on selling it. We're not talking about some dangerous weapon, it's not even really poison, it's just a bad batch of tea. It's evidence if I ever saw one, not something to be incinerated on sight like the devilspawn.

    Funny thing is, if the captain had not pointed out that they shouldn't burn the evidence, most people wouldn't be complaining about this. I guess Dave didn't learn one of George's Lessons "if you tell the audience something, they'll get that impression", like the time when GL cut a line by Han Solo where he said something like "this is boring", because it would make the audience perceive it as boring.
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Well yeah i said bit wrong- you nailed it- word escapism just sounds bit...cowardice... if you know what i mean- but it's not like that at all- it has two sides like the Force itself:p Escaping your world and problems is not same as trying to completely abandon them...
  19. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Poisoned tea, pharaoh vampires, weird costume changes that don't make sense.. The episode had its good moments.
  20. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    I can agree that the core idea that hard times lead to cut corners lead to corruption is suitable for Star Wars and could be an interesting story. The political and social implications of the war should be examined in the series - it's just thatthis episode took that basic idea and mishandled it - the investigative element was really poor - Satine and Padme went from place to place - asked someone a question, were answered and went to the next location (stopping occasionally to chat with Almec and change their clothes). The action scene at the end seemed tacked on. The message of the impact of the war was also mishandled through the dialogue.

    So yes, in depth political, character episodes can be good (I, for one, enjoyed both Senate Spy and Senate murders and the last two blockade episodes), but not mishandled like this. Good idea - poor execution.
  21. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I totally agree- previous political episodes were sooooo much better ... Even though i still wonder where did Chuchi learned her impressive stealthskills...?[face_thinking]
    and Tan Divo is definitely the worst detective in the whole galaxy- there is one object in the middle of the empty table- with blood in it- and he says they didn't find anything suspicious.... i think Sherlock is his middle name[face_laugh] ... anyway Sphere was MUCH better than this....
  22. TiniTinyTony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 5
    I heard the live action series is supposed to have no main characters, no Jedi and no lightsabers. So I imagined this episode with live action actors and asked myself if I'd watch it each week. The answer would be no.
  23. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    From what I gather (having not seen the episode, typically), it sounds like it highlights Satine's plight and her response to it. The corruption is so systematic, so deep, that she's paranoid about everything, and everyone. She has absolutely no guarantees that the tea won't end up in someone else's hands, somewhere else in the system, that the evidence in the room won't be manipulated, misused, or disappear, and at that moment in time she has just one guarantee - that if the tea is burned down, if it is destroyed and everything with it, she still has power over the destiny of Mandalore.

    She's not content with cutting the snakes head off. She has to cauterise the neck so no more little heads sprout.

    I have no doubt Satine will be shone slowly but surely sliding off the edge of that dark cliff... maybe as a prelude to the Death Watch forcing Mandalore to rearm to fight them - and everyone else.
  24. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Exactly. I'm not saying it's logical, but it's consistent with Satine's headspace in Corruption.

    Theoretically a corrupt police officer could find some way to use the evidence to make Mandalore more corrupt.
  25. FalorWindrider Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2010
    star 4
    That's a huge wallbanger. By destroying evidence, she gives the corrupt elements carte blanche to continue their activities. I wouldn't be as completely baffled by her actions if she wasn't presented as a paragon and a representative of all that is good and right in the galaxy. And when the strawman allegedly-corrupt police chief says "Hold up, lady! If we don't hold onto this evidence, we can't nail the guys responsible," she threatens to have him prosecuted for corruption if he does not burn the facility. This is a guy, who not seconds before was shot trying to apprehend the criminals, and actually presented a logical, level-headed solution which probably was sure to work in Satine's favor.

    How is that in anyone's best interest?

    The problem is that any nutcase can rationalize a course of action in theoretical terms. But the fact of the matter is that Satine threw away evidence that proved her allegations. She is nothing more than an idiot. It would have been fine if someone other than a strawman had called her out, but she's portrayed as being always in the right.
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