The Clone Wars: Episode 308: Evil Plans Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Nov 1, 2010.

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  1. imperial_buckethead Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Long time lurker, first time poster. Cause after this episode I just had to vent.

    When I first got into this series several years ago, I really got into it. The characters were entertaining (even Jar-Jar!), the stories were engaging and often suspensful, and there were decently complex arcs that focused just as much on the individual characters as on the action. Sure there were some ups and downs, but overall I loved it, it had more or less captured the Star Wars spirit.

    Season 2 took this even further, and after the Boba trilogy I was pumped for what came next!

    Now? Now, I'm starting to take a page from SFDebris and referring to this season as "the idiocy that is Clone Wars Season 3."

    This episode was filler - pure, pointless filler. Sure, we found out why Ziro was freed back in "Hostage Crisis," but we could've just as easily been told this in any other episode - like, maybe one that isn't yet another prequel. We already know Bane will get the plans, free Ziro, 3PO and R2 will be okay, and so forth, so there's no tension to any of the events that transpire. The story goes nowhere.

    That said, I do think the writers did an excellent job capturing the 3PO/R2 dynamic as well as their inidvidual personalities. I liked how frantic 3PO was about the dinner situation, and the whole mission for missing dessert fruit did fit his character. Daniels did a great job with the voicework here as well. While I think most of the Droid spa scenes were pointless and went on way too long, they were humorous enough and I think it captured a great aspect about R2 - that while yes, he is a troublemaker, in the end he's extremely loyal to his friends, which we saw in how he gave himself up to TODO in order to save 3PO.

    One other thing - let's talk about lost oppurtunities in this episode. While the two droids were out on their escapades/torturing, Padme's dinner party was probably well underway. Since it involved the chair of the Senate armed forces comittee, I'm assuming this episode takes place before the events of the next prequel episode involving the debate on increased clone production. This could've been a great opportunity for a few scenes involving Padme and her fellow doves trying to bring the chair to their side, while having some casual dinner conversation jousting with the more hawkish Senators like Burtoni and Deechi. This would've made for a nice lead-in to the events of "Senate Murders" and it's prequel episode (I forget the name).
  2. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Being told key plot points is not being "spoon fed", it's just solid storytelling. We didn't care how Bane got the plans for the senate building because during that episode we didn't even know Bane HAD those plans. They were completely unnecessary for the story, since he doesn't infiltrate the building stealthly but outright murders the front door guards. When Bane really needed the plans for a building in order to sneak in was in Holocron Heist, and we were TOLD that Sidious gave him those plans.

    How would you have felt if Return of the Jedi began with Han Solo simply arriving at the Alliance gathering to plan for the attack on the second Death Star? Would you not have felt it a little bit odd that the last time you saw that character he was encased in carbonite and on his way to Jabba, and now he's walking around the Home One with no explanation? Or would you feel you don't need to be spoon fed those nitpicky details?
  3. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    fistofan1- You know what funny, I often fall asleep everytime I read a dark horse comic star wars book. Especially as of late. The novels haven't ben that great with the exception of Crosscurrent by Kemp, Old Republic and the Force Unleashed 2.

    I've said it before, the episodes are all part of a bigger scheme of things. Yeah, I would love to see some good action, but this is all the underlying things that occur and help further let the audience know on tv/film why the Republic would end up falling. It wasn't just Skywalker and the Chosen One (But can't blow up a planet or fly in the air or shoot laser from his eyes, but can win the galaxy with swinging a lightsaber filled with midi whatever's). In the end, Palpatine had it right...the Republic fell out of greed, corrutpion, and crime. Read the prologue to the A New Hope novel, then look back in this series. You will also find a lot of similarities with the Indiana Jones TV series.
  4. VladTheImpaler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    "Spoon fed"? That's a pretty major hole they've left, there. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why the heck a major character is in jail one episode, and suddenly part of Bane's crew in the next episode.


    I don't care how she got out of prison so much as I just think it's stupid that they would do this. It was pointless to have her go to jail, and then they never even addressed it.

    It is stupid...but I am ready to move on. If they really do make a "Aurra Sing gets out of jail" episode, I am going to scream. I'll have the same reaction if they actually make an episode where Anakin rebuilds TODO and he escapes. The point is that it's easy to address these issues with one line of dialogue (or by not writing them into these corners in the first place)...but evidently the producers just don't care.
  5. TheLucasAdvocate1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2010
    star 2
  6. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    That's what we're all gonna do. Only difference is you'll think there's nothing wrong with that.
  7. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    While this episode is not the best example, imagination isn't necessarily a bad thing. Normally I wouldn't address such a clearly valid plot hole issue, but imagination is something I feel very strongly about.

    Forcing it upon us through bad writing, yes, that's not good. But if the writing itself isn't necessarily bad, I dunno. It's hard to figure out what to believe in anymore, these days. [face_worried]
  8. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Finally saw it.

    Bloody hell, what a totally pointless episode.

    Ok, so Bane got the plans, Padme got her dessert and R2 got memory wiped.

    Woo-*******-hoo.

    Is Bane going to use the plans? No, he's walking in the front door blasting everyone in his way.

    Why do we need to see all this?

    Why make this episode at all? Why not just let the newsreel guy cover what happened in Hostage Crisis at the beginning of the next episode?

    Season 3 so far is the most uninspired thing ever.

    I'm just sitting there in front of my TV, not caring for the story at all.

    ...I WANT MY CLONE WARS BACK! :_|
  9. Lady_Skywalker87 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 3
    I Know! In the series their marriage is treated more like an open secret(IMO) anyway for the most part, much to my annoyance; but having Anakin at the dinner party was down right ridiculous!
    [face_beatup] for whoever wrote it!

    Welcome to the boards mperial_buckethead ![:D]

    I agree the droids were excellent (only part I enjoyed honestly), as for the loss of potential...sadly TCW is no stranger to that. My problem with Season 3 is that until Corruption I found it quite compelling on different levels but after that it all went south for me to the point of thinking that any of the really good Fanfic writers on these boards would do a far better job with an episode than the writers of the show.
  10. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Worth one viewing for entertainment, yes, but as someone else said, not something to look forward to a second viewing. I wasn't that fond of Season 2 (except for some episodes) but 3 makes 2 look a lot better.

    It's not the "girl power" or the "politics" or the "lack of war" action - it's the lack of good engrossing storytelling. A good story is compelling and makes the journey interesting, even if you know in advance who is and who is not in danger and all that.

    Season 3, I expected better from you.
  11. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    The problem is that, TODO explanation or not, this was an episode that could have been told in the newsreel at the beginning....like half the episodes this season.


    There's 2 ways to look at this season and the focus on prequels:

    (1) the S1 writers had a bunch of ideas that were whittled down and abandoned until now (I'm thinking the Ambush writer and Supply Lines, obviously), and they're simply running out of good ideas;

    (2) the TCW writers/directors believe that the main characters and storylines are established enough that they can now play around with the chronology and focus on some lesser characters and plots.

    I think #2 is the more likely answer, but it's not a good sign. Season 2 addressed many of our complaints about Season 1, and they were already working on Season 2 by the time S1 aired, so it's not like they took direct inspiration from us.


    What's troubling me is that they have an opportunity to expand on what exactly the Clone Wars are to the bigger galaxy, and we wind up with poisoned tea, prequel episodes, droids going to the farmer's market, etc.

    The fact that the best episode since Cadets/ARC Troopers was a rehash of AOTC/ROTS with Ahsoka instead of Anakin really shows how mediocre this season has been.
  12. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Assassin was definitely an AOTC/ROTS rip off. I cannot stress that enough.
  13. imperial_buckethead Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2010
    At least it was an entertaining rip-off. [face_plain]
  14. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    o_O
  15. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Someone pointed out that the shopkeeper resembled Jerry's guitar playing cowboy uncle from Tom and Jerry, and expected him to go Crambow. He wasn't too far off the mark, actually. :p
  16. _ThatJediScum_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 3
    Just watched the episode again, and I have to say I liked it more this time around. It is still not one of my faves but it is what it is. To me it seems like we shouldn't take it too seriously. The problem is that it's been written as the lead in to Hostage Crisis and it's setting up the conclusion episode to Hostage Crisis, which was a very serious eppy.

    After a day or two and a second watching, I can't take it as seriously as I did when I first saw it. And I'm certainly not taking it as the end of the world as we know it. The season isn't half over yet and already there are dire predictions for the rest of this season and for the show as a whole. I don't agree with that. IMO, this eppy isn't that important comparatively to the episodes we know are coming up this season. Not every episode is going to be perfect or give us what we think this show should be. Regardless of the target audience of the show, it is Star Wars, which means it's going to span 'target' audiences as well as genre. I don't think we are all going to like everything that happens on this show, and I think that's ok. But I don't think not liking an eppy marks the decline of the show as a whole.

    bran
  17. fett51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2008
    star 1
    If I'm remembering the season 3 press correctly, most or all episode ideas come from Lucas. Filoni's commentary made it pretty clear this one started as "a day in the life of the droids." As that, I think they did a decent job but not a particularly good one. I don't necessarily object to episodes like this being in this show as I frequently enjoy it when they add depth to the universe. I like Corruption a lot more than...well, everybody because it added depth to the universe, even if the actual story wasn't what I would expect from this show, much as this wasn't. However, whereas Corruption furnished us with a lot of new information about how the star wars universe works, this...well, didn't. We could've seen more of what C3PO actually does in Padme's service, or seen more of Coruscanti society, or seen how Bane operates day to day. In absence of the episode doing something to flesh out the universe, advance the plot, develop characters or show us anything new it just feels like a waste of an episode slot.
  18. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    No r2 didn't get full memorywipe- he never received that one- just recent happening were erased- they still remembered their fruitmission... there is nothing unlogic in that- r2 is still the same- his all memories are there- except those within few hours.....
  19. fistofan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2009
    star 4
    As much as I love Tom and Jerry, I still think the shop owner was Yosemite Sam. :p
  20. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I bet if you had a million years, you wouldn't be able to stress it enough. Just keep on stressing it...
    I'm not sure that the marriage is treated like an open secret (paradox?). It's implied that Anakin and Padme are good friends from having met in TPM and their exploits together in AotC, but then Anakin hides under the desk in Hostage Crisis so that he and Padme are not seen together in her senatorial chambers. Then Bail asks Padme (in Hostage Crisis) why she has a Jedi's lightsaber. Ummm...yeah I wonder why...when a Jedi is present at a dinner party in Padme's private apartment. There's not a lot of imagination to stretch on that one.
  21. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Well- every dinner party with so many senators needs a jedi- there is so many bounty hunters in the galaxy and everyone wants some senator dead[face_laugh].... instead of snatching the plans from r2:s memory- Bane should've changed those fruits to bombs and he could've received awesome amount of money by blowing up those senators... wait....Ahsoka would've foreseen that anyway and saved the day- since apparently Anakin cannot foresee anything but certain happenings.....[face_laugh]
  22. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, every dinner party needs a Jedi to protect the senators, then a certain Senator Amidala just happens to have a lightsaber in her possession, a very rare and extremely valuable weapon.
    "Oh my, where did that come from? I guess Anakin Skywalker must have left it in my apartment! Tee hee! He can be so scatterbrained sometimes!"

    Bail Organa's not a stupid man. He'd put two and two together. (To make four! Math lesson!)
  23. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 3
    At least Ahsoka was absent from this episode. Nice to see Anakin and Padme together.
    next weeks episode looks good
  24. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Stop trolling.
  25. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    I think Bail did.... at some point- like many others too -like Obi-Wan.... but Bail didn't want to intervene- he knew that it would mean trouble for both and they were his friends- however i don't think Bail guessed they are actually married -he just guessed they have something going on....
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