Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 314: Witches of the Mist Discussion Thread

I always assumed Gunray spilled the beans on Maul's name. It wasn't exactly a secret he was hanging out with the guy at one point.

 

I was so hoping for Anakin and Obi-Wan to enter the bridge, only for Dooku, Asajj, and Savage to scream "Get out!" and knock them back out with the Force. That would have been funny.

Poor Katuunko. I liked him.

As for Maul being alive - I wonder if that's true or not. It could be that Mother Talzin sent Savage off on a wild mynock chase.

One thing's definitely for certain - in terms of the timeline, this trilogy clearly took place before Obsession, since Adi Gallia is still alive.

 

The Jedi knowing Maul's name can easily be explained with them capturing the Mechno Chair in TPM and going through its records.

So its official: Maul is coming back in some form. I think he's still dead, Savage might reappear in the Mortis Trilogy and Maul will get the Qui Gon coming back treatment we saw the clip of.

 

Enough p----footing around. Someone important needs to die. I'm tired of every character simply running away. Kill someone to shock us. I don't care what the EU says - Ventress should have died tonight. If Grievous, Dooku, etc can't die bc they show up in ROTS then someone like Ventress needs to fall. This running away every time is seriously ridiculous.

 

Wow. Such a great episode. Now, I'm gonna watch 'em all together.

 

Pretty cool episode. I liked t overdoing Savage... but then he starts taking on Dooku and Ventress. Still I was glad he was forced to flee from Kenobi and Anakin.

 

Honestly, this was a damn good episode. Probably in my top ten for the series. However, it did have its flaws.

What Worked

-Savage Opress. Seriously, his character works on so many levels. Not only as an interesting villain whose fate is unknown to us, but also as a pretty layered character. I honestly felt sorry for him at the end of this.

-Ventress. Still stealing the show, this has been a great season for her, can't wait to see more.

-Delta Squad and the Jedi Council. Good to see them, and their take on the situation was interesting.

-Animation was great as always

-The entire lightsaber showdown between Savage, Ventress, and Dooku was fantastic. There was surprising amounts of emotion in it, and it built tension more so then most battles in the series. I was actually convinced that Ventress might die.

-Personally, I love the twist at the end. If handled well this could make Clone Wars a pretty damn unique and exciting show.

What didn't work

-The major flaw for this arc has always been that it tries to cram in too much into one 22 minute show. Clone Wars works best when focusing on small events with not a great deal of travelling. Clone Cadets, Rookies, and Landing at Point Rain stand as some of my favorite episodes because they tell stories that fit well into the time provided. This whole arc suffered for feeling like too much was going on and certain scenes werent given the amount of time needed. This was worst in Nightsisters, but its still apparent here.

-That whole sequence on Toydaria felt awkward. Primarily for the reasons stated above.

Overall I'd give it an -A. Not sure what out of 10 though. I normally do letter grades.

 

Another great episode and a great end to a now legendary trilogy in TCW.
I really do hope the return of Darth Maul makes since when we find out.Im sure when the time comes its The Night Sisters who brought him back to life,I could handle that for this series.


P.S.NOW BRING ON THE DELTA SQUAD'S OWN TRILOGY!

 

Ventress ran off beaten three times in this arc alone. Come on. Kill her already.

 

The duel between Dooku, Ventress, and Savage alone made this episode fantastic.
Though I'm not sure if I'm supposed to believe that Savage is as or more powerful than the good Count.

 

Agreed. She really needed to die this episode. I know it would mess up the EU... But the plot was demanding it! Plus Obsession is pretty much gone now as it is anyway.

I don't think he really is more powerful. It seemed more like his attack caught Dooku off guard. Still he held his own extraordinarily well against him and then later on Anakin and Kenobi. So I do tend to think he was a little too powerful. Honestly, not sure what Maul can teach him, Savage seems far more powerful than Maul ever was.

 

Yes! I was on the fence about this episode before, but it definately paid off!

Good:

- Let's get this out of the way first: LIGHTSABER FIGHTS WAZ COOL!!! Seriously, the final battle was beyind a doubt the most well-choreographed lightsaber duel we have seen so far.

- Savage's training. It had an interesting parallel to Jedii training in TESB, even including the lifting of stones.

- The episode had great pacing, which is suprising given that it is te last episode of a trilogy, which are notorious for being rushed.

- Mother Talsin really shined. She was no fool. She knew how to play her cards with the Jedi. If she didn't help them, it would have negative implications on her people. But she still had an overall plan working towards her ends. Very sneaky...

- Anakin and Obi-Wan had some great interactions. I loved Anakin's "women love me" line.

- Darth Mauk looks great. He hardly looks stylised, which I like. Some characters would ook good that way. Some wouldn't. Darth Maul should look realistic.

- The animation continues to improve. The opening sequence was so well rendered I could have sworn it was live action.

- The music blew me away! And that is rare. I liked the choral elements, and did anyone else catch Battle of the Heroes?

Bad:

- One line of dialogue took me out of the moment, when Anakin calls the Nightbrothers "warrior-like people." It just doesn't sound like something in a natural conversation.

- The final act was too dark, in the literal sense of the word. There is a difference between atmospheric lighting and near-total darkness.

Random Thoughts:

- After the huge, exhausting battle, the droid's "you're not supposed to be here" line cracked me up.

10/10. Great ending!

 

That was sweet, but having seen the whole thing now I'd much rather they'd have concentrated on Sith training than on Savage's selection last week. Whole thing felt rushed. I liked that it showed quite a bit that Dooku was Yoda's padawan when he was teaching Savage. Seeing Delta squad was awesome, though I couldn't help noticing they screwed up Sev's helmet. The duels were awesome, though Savage's power level was all over. I guess that's a downside to using emotions.

Very glad they didn't reset button Ventress, looking forwards to seeing what the do with her next.

Talzin clearly wants to use Savage and Maul for something and wasn't above screwing over Ventress to get it. What, though? Hopefully this will pick up with a stronger continuation next season than Mandalore did this one.

 

MAUL LIIIIIIIVES!!!!!!

And was that one of the Sith race I spotted in the preview? Keep mixing in that EU Lucas.

Now I understand why they made the first half of the season a little bland.

If both halves had been of equal quality then our heads would have exploded from the sheer awesomeness of it all.

 

The more I think about it, I believe I'm going to conclude that Savage is not yet on Dooku's level. Simultaneously Force choking the Count and Ventress was impressive, but it was very similar to Ventress's earlier attack on Obi-Wan and Anakin in "Nightsisters"; it was more of an explosive outburst of raw power than what Savage could probably produce in a typical engagement. He was embarrassed, furious, and desperate.

Meanwhile, Dooku held off Ventress and Savage in what was a highly coordinated attack in a relatively confined space. Most importantly, Savage was absolutely no match for the Count's Force lightning and admitted as much: "He's [Dooku] too powerful!"

Does that mean Dooku could own Savage? Hardly; Opress has clearly transcended Ventress and would be a credible threat to Darth T., but for now, Dooku is definitely more than Savage could handle on his own in a typical duel.

As of now, I'd say the power chart is as follows: Dooku > Savage > Anakin = Obi-Wan = Ventress

 

Well, if they weren't already, I think we can safely write off battle droids as harmless comic relief for the rest of the series. There's just no point in them any more.

Overall, an excellent episode to wrap up the trilogy. I'm really sorry that I didn't go to the Chicago screening when I had the chance. It must have played out brilliantly on the big screen in one long cut.

Points of interest:

You know, when I was watching last week's episode, being so intrigued by the Nightsisters in general, I found myself watching the trials Ventress put the men through and wondered if perhaps that's the usual course of how a Nightsister takes a mate for breeding. It made sense to me. Sure enough, we learn this week that's exactly what the males of the village thought Ventress was doing! I'm really hoping we see more Nightsisters, or, of not, we see them appear more frequently in other forms of media.

The battle between Savage, Ventress and Dooku was even more thrilling than the battle from the first episode. Of course, of course, Dooku had to live. Didn't stop me from watching every second, wondering if either of the other two would live or die, or how the battle would play out in general. Great suspense, great action. Great way to cap off the episode.

"I will not be intimidated." Yeah, famous last words, your highness. You know, no matter how many of our real world leaders refuse to be "intimidated", their security staff still has an evacuation plan for when danger looms that usually involves lining up guards to get mowed down in the name of King and country, while the king/president/whatever gets rushed out the back door! That the King's bodyguards didn't have such a plan was just amusing to me.

It was kind of morbid, though, how Savage was just dragging his body around. That gave me the creeps.

Darth Maul. Well, seeing his fragmented image in a crystal ball is a far cry from the real deal having had his two halves stitched back together with a ball of twine and some duct tape, and being none the worse for wear. The truth is the people on these forums will debate endlessly on what form Maul will take, if any at all, but I shall hold my tongue until I actually see whatever episode next deals with that particular plot and just leave it for now.

What's next for Ventress? Will she return for the Nightsisters? Or strike out on her own? I know i said I wanted an episode that tied everything up, but leaving this one thread wide open was a good move, I think.

All in all, a great way to wrap up a good trilogy.

 

Was good to hear Obi-Wan ask about the whole Iridonia / Dathomir thing...

Just curious -- is this Maul thing have a resolution in sight?

It simply cannot be that open-ended -- and honestly -- I really cannot stomach him being alive.

I am one who can accept ret-cons to wazoo -- and get over it pretty easily.

But the only reason I can think of to cut Maul in half was to ensure he was DEAD DEAD DEAD

GL having 2nd thoughts... and a bunch of people that couldn't say NO.
Every single member of the Skywalker Ranch shoulda wrote a petition against this.

Sorry - maybe it won't turn out that he's alive after all in the end.
But I am very disappointed by it -- and I even knew it was coming.

They coulda just sent him off to Mortis or something for more training... Anything else woulda been ok with me than Maul being alive.


And unless this is the end of Ventress in TCW -- which maybe it is -- how else could they ever keep her around?
This has to lead into Obsession and her going AWOL -- and I honestly cannot remember her relationship to Dooku in Obsession.
But she can't possibly work for him again.

Plus - Sidious has got to be pissed that Dooku has this Savage guy around, he had to feel THAT presence in the Force.
And that will lead him to somehow feel Maul's presence - as naturally Maul and Savage tweeking the Force together has to create some rather major Disturbance.

I don't know -- I was so pumped during this whole arc and especially this episode - but I didn't realize until I saw it how much the Maul thing would bother me.

It appears some people are excited about this - but my guess is that it might skew to younger fans.
And I am not one of them. ["Younger" or "Excited"]

Ho-Hum

 

Dooku certainly looks like a real Sith as a result of this episode.

This.

 

It was worth it for the preview.

The episode was good, though -not spectacular, but it had the solidness of Star Wars, the sort of thing that I'd come to expect. Good fight scenes, good Obi-Wan/Anakin interactions, decent dialogue. Very good animation, too. Probably 7-8/10, for me.

Edit: And this is entirely inconsequential, but I hated Savage's ship. It looked like... I don't even know how to say it. It looked liked a little hut where Smurfs or garden gnomes or something would live.

 

Stupid. Just stupid. At least it wasn't boring.

"You ask the impossible". Ummm, Dooku just did it. Obviously it's not impossible, but nice try at ESB nostalgia.

Why did Anakin and Obi-Wan jump on Savage? Why didn't they just kill him?

A minute ago Savage couldn't lift a few objects, now he can take on Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time.

Anakin and Obi-Wan just fly onto the Separatist ship, without even getting shot at. I guess they keep the hangars open for everyone.

Savage is stumbling around clumsily, yet Dooku doesn't kill him. Savage was more likely to kill himself than anyone else.

Ventress can't even touch an unarmed Dooku. Why even bother with lightsabers if you can't hit an unarmed man standing right next to you.

Why didn't Ventress attack Dooku every time he turned to hit Savage with the lightning?

Savage rage chokes Dooku and Ventress at the same time. Then rage throws Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I guess everyone forgot how to defend themselves from the Force.

Ventress gets away in an escape pod, why didn't they just shoot her down? I guess they couldn't afford the laser power.

Same thing with Savage and Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Is Savage wearing Wizard Armor? Because he got shot like 100 times.

Aaaaaand Maul's back, I guess I'm supposed to like that. I don't, he's dead. He died like ten years ago. I made my peace with him long ago.

 

Yeah, they didn't coordinate their attacks very well. However, I don't think the films do all that much better in justifying the failure of the 2-on-1 setup. It was more obvious here, though.

Sadly, we have precedent in ANH.

If this was an Alien film, I'd be calling android.

 

Well, you see it more prominently in kung-fu movies, but one of the first rules of a fight scene where the "hero" is outnumbered is that the bad guys aren't allowed to attack all at once. They have to go one at a time while the others stand around looking menacing.

 

To be honest, I always just thought that if too many people ganged up on one person, especially in combat as elegant and intricate as kung fu or lightsaber duels, they'd end up doing more harm then good for their own cause. I'd feel like they would get in each others way. The idea of peppering attack after attack as a team instead of all attacking simultaneously makes sense.

 

yeah, Ventress has to remain in her ready stance like a dummy controlled Mortal Kombat character on Genesis.

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