Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 314: Witches of the Mist Discussion Thread

I'd like to point out that Maul was not only chopped in half but fell what looked like 100+ meters down a reactor shaft. The impact of the landing would have literally splattered his body. Don't even claim that he cushioned himself with the Force, he was in no condition to do that.

Also, Palpatine showed up to save Anakin in a timely fashion. He kept him alive with the Force and medical technology and then built a life support suit of armor for him. If Palpatine had never showed up, Anakin would have died.

Somehow I doubt Palpatine could have recovered Maul's body and kept him alive without anyone knowing. Maul wasn't nearly as powerful with the Force as Anakin was anyway.

They never showed what happened to Maul's body nor was he dead the last we saw him (still alive falling down the shaft), but COME ON.

At this point, the best I can hope for is seeing Maul's upper body get around on a hoverboard.

 

Except there was no end. Everyone got away, there wasn't any closure.

Except Luke said it was impossible because he actually thought it was impossible, he never saw anything like that before. He had to see Yoda do it to believe it. Dooku had JUST DONE IT when Savage said "you ask for the impossible".

 

It was pretty much Savage screaming out in frustration because he couldn't do it. Impossible might of not been the best word to use there but it was to show Savage's frustration and a way for him to lash out at Dooku.

 

I am really tired of seeing Anakin being owned by yesterday trainee of the darkside. I am tired of seeing the one that KILLS dooku be a freaking padawan. Anakin must start to own up already and so does OBI-wan. I saw Savaj do what no one has done really... I agree with one of the posts above... So now all of the sudden, no one knows how to defend against a simple force choke?

What is wrong with the writers portraying anakin and obi wan so WEAK??????????????????????????????????

 

^It's a villains arc, the writers likely just want to make the villains look cool and capable. Besides, Savage was the one who was wounded and collapsed at the end, not Anakin or Obi-Wan.

 

That shouldn't matter

 

^What point are you trying to make?

 

I was thinking something similar. Ventress and Savage haven't trained together or anything. If Savage is engaged with Dooku, and Ventress jumps in, Savage might accidentally chop an arm, leg, or even her head off.
(And for those saying "what about Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan in TPM...they'd been together for years.)

I don't think it's clear at all.

I'm wondering what that means. Origin as in sure enough origin? Or origin as in something else?
Either way, while I'm curious about the info we'll be getting, I'm also apprehensive. Getting too detailed can take away some of the mythic resonance of the story.

What if she realizes this quest for vengeance is ruining her life and the life of others? What if she realizes she has become the very evil that caused her so much pain when her Jedi master died?

What if she realizes it's not too late...


Anyway, I have a lot to say about this arc. Definitely enjoyed it. But it's late, and Josh and I are recording an episode of The Clone Cast about these eps tomorrow, so I guess I'll just summarize:
-Animation: Wonderful
-Music: Wonderful
-Characters: we saw new layers added to existing characters, and were introduced to new characters who also appear layered and complex
-Plot: A lot packed into 3 episodes...but still good
-Politics and/or politicians: none (yay!)
-The Hammer: there were a few

 

Filoni mentioned at C5 that villains like Grievous shouldn't be seen too often b/c they always run away/escape in the end and it diminishes their characters - like it becomes a gimmick.

Well in this one arc - Ventress was beaten three times and had to run away - once on the droid command ship while fighting Obi Wan and Anakin, once while failing to kill Dooku in his palace, and then tonight. I mean... that's how virtually every episode with her has ended. She opened the dang season that way when she failed to get the clone DNA material from Kamino and had to escape as Anakin and the clones had her dead to rights.

If you're not going to kill her and she can never "win"... then shelve her character and let's not revisit her for a long time. I think the writers have failed her character by not giving her a legitimate great death tonight or by allowing her to be the victor, i.e. Dooku should have fled in the escape pod while she watched and Savage and Anakin/Obi Wan battled into the hangar. At least let her stand on the bridge - watching Dooku running away - and then she makes her exit vs. yet another tiresome "I'm almost beat, better get" moment.

I'm sure she'll reappear and so the writers/Filoni/GL didn't want to kill her off - but this arc (I think) demanded more.

As for Savage... would have loved for one of these three episodes to have been an hour so we could have gotten more of his training. Magic or not... he simply didn't seem to get enough training to allow him to be able to deal with Ventress/Dooku/Anakin/Obi Wan. Clearly he'd yet to get the notes on simply holding up his lightsaber to block the lightening.

 

I've been wanting this for a while, but I seriously doubt they'd even consider it, much less make it happen.

 

One thing that REALLY bugged me was Gallia's remark:

"The only person who is capable of this is Dooku's assassin Ventress, but she was presumed dead at the Battle of Sullust."

1) Ventress is capable of killing two Jedi and a whole squadron of clones on her own? Last I checked she's been beaten every single god damn time she shows up.
2) That is just bad writing. Even if Ventress were capable of this they are too closed minded to believe that they could possibly have somebody else?
3) I guess this renders the Clone Wars microseries version of Grievous totally non canon.

 

Am I the only one hating this?

What a terrible, TERRIBLE episode....

A TRAINWRECK, is what it is.

Okay, so! Here we go! Check it out, we got this cool new Saesee Tiin model. Yeah, sorry, we didn't have a voice actor, so Adi's doing the talking here. Nevermind that. Oh yeah we made Delta Squad too, but we're not using them really!

Oh, Dooku's zapping Opress but he can still use the Force to lift stuff? Awesome, noted.

Obi-Wan, about this guy. Darth Maul? Yeah him, how do you know his name? Oh, we found that out from this Neimoidian li'l Anakin er, 'questioned' way back. He also said something about a 'Lord Sidious', no clue what that was all about. Mace: Anyway! Here's the deal: he's not from Iridonia. He isn't? No, he's from Dathomir. And we base that on absolutely nothing. Now off you go!

ZIP! Dathomir! Witches! Witches? Oh, we're granted an audience! How lovely. Hey mother Talzin, long time no facebook! Howsitgoin! Hey Kenobi! Good thing we're familiar with eachother, or I wouldn't tell you what you want! Check out this magical PLOT DEVICE! See that face with the horns and stuff? That's him. Hmmm, from the way he's holding his double-blade I can totally tell he's on Toydaria! Obi-Wan: Whoa, Anakin! Get a load of THIS thing! We might want to get one of these for master Yoda, what with the dark side clouding everything and all! Talzin: Yeah, you bunch of freaking amateurs. By the way, telling you all this and letting you go might not seem to make sense, but don't worry about it. It's because of my secret master plan! That we're not telling you anything about! Now shoo!

And the wild bantha chase continues! ZIP! Toydaria! Oh noes! A crashing elevator! Let's use the Force in the last instant, so we can walk away without a scratch! Wait, Anakin, wait. I know that elevator didn't really crash on us, but don't lift it too quickly, because Opress needs to super-push our ship off the platform first! Okay, he's gone, let's go! Haha! He forgot the other ship! What a pointless display of his über powers! Haha!

ZIP! Command ship! Ah, Dooku's zapping Savage again! Again! Again! Hey, Ventress! Ah, there we go! Oh wow, she's got Savage under his spell now! Witchcraft FTW! Cool, honestly cool. Now let's see if this gets interesting! Dooku zaps savage! Clashes sabers with Ventress! Dooku zaps savage! Clashes sabers with Ventress! Dooku zaps savage! Clashes sabers with Ventress! Is this guy METHODIC or what! I thought Dooku was gonna choke, push, pull, zap, choke, throw stuff around, you know! He doesn't even NEED all that!

Wait what? Opress is attacking both of them now? For no reason whatsoever? I guess the water of life must have been past its expiration date because that Spell of Eternal Servitude sure wore off quickly! WHOA WHOA! Opress is doing the über dual choke and Dooku can't handle it! Wait, so Dooku can't push or lightning when being choked, but Opress can lift stuff while being zapped? Okay, awesome! Also, that dual choke move took Ventress years of training, WITCHCRAFT BABY, YEAH BABY! Hey, so why didn't Ventress undergo that same ritual again? Oh wait, what is this! The jedi! Oh wow, they're slamming into the wall! How come every freaking time Savage does that move, the camera is on something else! NO FAIR! Oh hey wow! Ventress is swinging her two sabers all over the place, but Dooku only needs to do a slow cha-cha-cha to evade her! That is just so 1337!

Anakin: Was that a Force Repulse? Obi-Wan: Oh, shut it. There's no such thing, silly. But we're nearing the 22 minute limit, so let's wrap this up, shall we! Ventress bails out! Savage takes off, leaving the two Jedi in bewilderment. Uh, what just happened? Why are we fighting droids now? We've been chasing this guy like headless chickens all day long, going in and out of spaceships, hopping from planet to planet to planet and he takes off, just like that? Why are we in this episode again?

Opress knows why! Ventress betrayed him! She sent the Jedi after him! It makes PERFECT SENSE! She didn't want to kill Dooku at all! Nosirree! She wanted to betray S

 

Remember in the Star Wars universe respirators and cyborg suits aren't the only way characters can live on forever, there's always... Wait for it...:

CLONING! I know, still weak, but you never know. Think about it: The contract for clone army was around the same time as Maul (10 years before ATOC). Maybe Maul had himself cloned.

Far fetched, but then again, anything is possible.

 

Dang, I just saw you beat me to the cloning idea of Maul

We'll see!

 

So it was all I feared it would be.

No, I have not yet watched it - and might not watch it ever based on what I've read in this thread. My biggest issue going in is the Darth Maul deal and it sounds as if the Insider was accurate, which is unfortunate.

This is it, on this day it was made official to me, though its been suspect for a while. Nothing counts anymore, there is no such thing as continuity, character building or story telling in Lucas's version of Star Wars.

I don't know that I can now watch the films and beleive anything that happened within them is accurate. Was Alderaan really destroyed or was it an illusion? Did Order 66 really happen or was it a holodrama?

 

Great post, Humble Jedi.

See my post at 6:43 PT, I had similar views.

This reminds me of a very similar Jean Claude Van Damme joke.

Double Impact. Maximum Risk. Replicant. What's better than Van Damme? TWO VAN DAMMES!

Why bother coming up with another interesting character? Just kill two birds with one Van Damme!

If they had made a GI Joe movie in the 90s Van Damme would have been a shoe in for Tomax and Xamot.

 

What it boils down to is making the "uber" become more important than the rational.

The script, quite frankly, sucks.

I'll continue to watch Clone Wars because I'm a diehard fan and I love to see lightsabers waved around. I no longer expect it to make a whole lot of sense, mechanically or (most importantly) thematically.

 

i think they totally overpowered savage, what has he had, like a week of training or something and now he can best asajj? also didnt like how he just throws obi wan and anakin and they dont even seem to be able to fight back.. i do like the way the made dooku look badass tho, how asajj coudnt even hit him when he was disarmed lol, and he just kept shocking savage i couldnt stop laughing lol, i love the character of dooku, how he is so proper and powerful. also agree with most the people on here, KILL ASAJJ!!! she flees every single episode shes in lol, its getting tiring, whats with her and grievous?? one last thing, i reeeeally hope they dont bring back darth maul, maybe as a force spirit brought on by the nightsisters or something, but please oh god dont bring him back in physical form, i loved darth maul but i accepted it over 10 years ago, HES DEAD!!! if the emperor couldnt survive falling down a shaft, then how the hell could an already dead maul???? the emperor wasnt even hurt so if he couldnt stop himself from falling down then who the hell could?? just doesnt make sense especially since you would die almost instantly after being chopped in half from a lightsaber, then falling helplessly down a seemingly endless pit to you ultimate demise!

anyways i liked the nightsisters plot line, learned alot and liked the overall story, just not asajj and overpowering savage. and i was a bit dissappointed that king katuunko died, especially since the very first episode of clone wars was about liberating his planet and saving him from ventress in the first place, seems to discrace the first episode.... also where the hell was the republic security that was promised in the first episode, shouldnt they have been atleast protecting the palace? seems you should have joined the seps after all lol much as i hate to say it

 

Cloning Force sensitives is the worst. It makes death meaningless. It pretty much breaks the universe.

Man, what a tragedy Order 66 was.....no problem! We can just bring them all back with the power of cloning!

But why bring back those weakling younglings when you can just clone Yoda 10,000 times!

That's right, another 900 years of our little green friend! Try to stop us now, Palpatine!

Oh no, Darth Vader just lost his legs and remaining organic arm and was horribly burned!

Stop right there Palpatine. No need to use that clumsy suit. Just let him die.

We can just bring back your all powerful apprentice with the power of cloning!

The Chosen One gets another shot! Will he choose the dark path once more or become the great Jedi he was supposed to be?

LAME (I'm looking at you, TFU)

 

my views are the same as yours.. it seems that any character with superior "physical" power is made to be able to best characters with years and years of trained and honed force skills and dueling skills, which is totally innaccurate imo... but what worries me most is continuity and respect to the movies, what is set is set, keep it that way dont tamper with any of it, even tho it was never officially said that maul was dead.. i mean come on, how could they clone him if they even wanted to? clearly he was a useless pawn in palpatines plan, KEEP IT THAT WAY!

 

yes tfu is right, i dont like the idea of cloning someone who is dead one bit, makes dying completely pointless.. ESPECIALLY force sensative cloning, the force is not an object that can be easily transfered to another dummy in a tank like a virus, it is a gift

 

I don't know about this episode, a lot of action but it was really rushed.Bunch of issues with it.

Dooku needs to stop using force lightning it's just way overused, don't the Sith have any other powers?

Anakin and Obi Wan sure are weaklings, "Sith lords are our speciality" more like getting owned by Sith lords is their speciality.Anakin really is just a minor character in this series.

Why do the Jedi even fight with Lightsabers if they can just choke or force push their opponents around?

Mother Talzin is an interesting character, I would have preferred if that design had of been used for the Sith Lord in Attack of the Clones instead of Dooku.

And with Dooku we don't really know anything about him, why is he so evil?

Savage is an alright character but I'm guessing he is one of the few characters that's going to be killed off.He became way too powerful way too fast though.

Battledroids are just comic relief at this point but in AOTC they were gunning down Jedi quite successfully.

 

I'd like to point out that you just don't play around with Force lightning. It has serious effects on both the victim and the user.

Luke was in pretty bad shape after getting hit with lightning by Palpatine on the second Death Star. IIRC he had to get around in a hoverchair.

Pretty stupid risking crippling your newly acquired apprentice during training.

Using Force lightning accelerates the decay brought on by the dark side, so it's probably not a good idea to be so casual about its use.

 

Source?