Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 316: Altar of Mortis Discussion Thread

Oh yeah. Sure. Though we still have to see where the Son ends up by the end of all this.

 

My guess is Anakin will end up destroying him, (perhaps after first falling to the dark side himself), so we will have seen the saga in a nutshell, in the form of a vision.

But that's speculation for now.

 

so are you saying he is deceiving himself with this 'balance thing' and really just is blinded by attachments... maybe so

i agree not sure about turning- but there is foreshadowing of that- and then Son is naturally killed because his sister is dead -only way to gain the balance anymore on Mortis is to kill the Son-

i would still say it supports the idea of destroying the jedi being part of bringing the balance as well- to gain the balance by killing the Son -Daughter must already be dead- but what is she would stay alive what "too much light" would be??? would it be bad??....

the most interesting question and we probably never get the answer- what if Anakin wouldn't have turned and would have killed Palpatine with Mace- would Force be in balance or not would jedi mean 'too much light' or not or is this overlightfull order of forceusers already killed (are they those whills? I still think they could be mixed up with all of this )


Since Dave obviously loves to say these things are metaphors what do they represent then? If Son is the Sith... ... and Daughter is the jedi.... well it makes no perfect sense anyway- If Father is Balance shouldn't he be dead already since there is no balance... anyway what is dagger then and Son accidentally killed his sister while Palpatine purposedly killed jedi with the help of the clone army so is dagger a symbol of an army?- clone army? LOL that's pretty foolish symbolism maybe it just represents violence and will to fight, kill and die for one's own views or something.... what if father is the jedi... no... but he is much like Ben and Yoda.... well if these three real beings Ani, Obi, Ahsoka mirror these three metaphorical ones

Son,Father,Daughter ... damn that works so well with my theory of Ahsoka's fate being killed by Vader during the dark times ....

anyway i wonder if retcon will come that says Vader and Obi-Wan dueled during the dark times- it wouldn't be impossible (we get similar kind of Obi-Grievous retcon) "We meet again at last", "When i left you i was nothing but a learner- now i am a master" not impossible to retcon with another duel after Mustafar- 'leaving Kenobi' doesn't even refer to duel- anyway....

is Ahsoka going to die defending Obi-Wan from Vader? .... after all she was rescued by Daughter and her adultform was probably portrayed by Daughter so is this just random unintended foreshadowing or is Ahsoka going to be "lightsidesister" for Anakin- the one he slaughters and convinces the Fath... i mean Obi-Wan that Anakin is completely twisted "more machine than man" and cannot be redeemed anymore....

 

As much as I have enjoyed the two Mortis episodes, and appreciate how well done the writing, animation, and voice acting have been in this story arc, I can't help but feel a little cheated.

For my whole life, "The Force" in Star Wars has been a mystical energy that is difficult to explain other that it is created by life, sorrounding and penetrating everything, and binding the galaxy together. Only a rare few individuals are able to weild it, and it is their own individual nature that determines how they weild it. I would have been perfectly happy to leave it at that, but then Episode I came along with freaking mitochondria (*cough*), sorry, midichlorians and cheapened the whole thing for me. Why couldn't they have left it mystical?

Now these CW episodes have come along and cheapened the Force up a little bit more. There's a huge section of my brain that refuses to accept that three deities control the Force, and essentially, the amount of Dark or Light permeating the galaxy. Mortis is akin to Mount Olympus, and we're supposed to believe that the Father (Zeus), Daughter (Hera) and Son (Hades) control the fate of the galaxy?

I don't know, but I have a hard time accepting that the Force is controlled by the gods. The Force just -is-. Just leave it alone. Anakin turned because he was selfish and was corrupted by power, not because Hades is taking over ancient Greece.

 

I'd recommend you watch the latest video commentary for 'Altar of Mortis'.

It might put things in a more agreeable perspective.

 

Have you guys seen the Clone Cards for the Mortis trilogy? They're doing them in a different, very nice style, with the fact files replaced by a quote. I guess that pushes the idea that those things are not exactly real (though they have an Obi-Wan card in that style as well, isn't he real?)

Now, someone make an icon of this:

<img src="http://www.starwars.com/clonewars/tradingcards/cards/lg_mtdagger.jpg">

The eyes! The eyes!!

 

These beings are not supposed to be gods controlling the entire force but more like metaphorical visions that somehow resemble gods- after all it's clear that Father and all are mortals and Force is much older than them- it is not their creation they haven't created the Universe nor the Force they may not even exists but are hallucinations created by the mystic Force to test the Chosen One (Dagobah tree with fakevader).......

And notorious midichlorians are just little things in cells they're mystery- the Force is the mystery still- don't worry .....i don't- I won't never accept idea of random deities controlling the Force but well even jedi do "control" the Force- so it matters from a point of view whether or not these 3 control the Force- but i don't accept this crazy family to be gods of the Force no way....

But i agree leave the Force alone please- they messed it up enough with this arc....

Oh my overlords what a freaky impression

 

Her expression is just hysterical. They had to be going for comedy when they made that card.

 

I was OK with the midichlorians thing, but I totally agree with the rest of what you said regarding these episodes.

 

Same with me- i never saw a prob with midis- they are crude matter like bodies- they don't mean that the force would be just a physical thing they just say it is also a physical thing and why not everyone can be a jedi and how those who can are determined...

this arc is pretty much worthless- but let think it this way: they fly in the giant rakatan mindtrap and see crazy stuff there that's it No Mortis.... no Forcegods.... it was just a crazy vision- does it have a meaning?.... Force is mysterious it may have a meaning or may not have a meaning depending on your point of view

 

Yeah, if you want to disregard this arc and pretend it never happened, it will be pretty easy.

So, uh... how was Father involved in Corruption and Evil Plans, again?

 

Well like I said before, I just hope that this whole arc ends up being a dream of Anakin's.

 

Actually, I see the great shift as being Anakin's turn, which is what a good chunk of the symbolism in the episode seems designed to represent anyway. So it still works.

That's a very good point that I'm surprised has not been addressed directly. But it assumes that Ahsoka literally died. Viewed in this context, I cannot believe that to be the case. Anakin did ask Father to save her, not bring her back, and pointed out there's always hope. I see her as having been on the verge of death only. Otherwise that's one contradiction that'd be pretty tough for me to reconcile on my own...

 

I think it's the idea of Filoni and others when this ends- it is possibly even in-universe regarded to be just odd vision afterwards or then they'll get the memorywipe i dunno....... maybe they are just like Indy who never believes in supernatural artifacts even though Temple of Doom is prequel to Raiders......

No wait a minute -poisoned tea- it explains everything - they drank Moogan tea before they took hyperspacejump- then they hallucinated all that- after placing wrong coordinates to the navicomputer... or perhaps Anakin drank that alone and last episode will end when he wokes up..... plenty of possibilities but i wonder how this trilogy will end and how they return to normal universe......

Well Ahsoka was not dying naturally but poisoned by Son so Daughter probably just neutralised the 'dark side poison'- saving life of others is not part of the dark side but keeping life unnaturally is- it is natural cycle of life to end to the death but Ahsoka was poisoned and therefore she was not supposed to die- Anakin tried to save Padmé through Dark Side it was not necessarily the only way though- actually he could've saved her by not trying to intervene at all- she was not dying for childbirth or any disease.....

 

Yeah, at first I thought Ahsoka had really died, and Daughter ressurected her, which is not only quite hackneyed but also contradictory with Light Side behaviour. But watching the scene again, I paid more attention to the dialogue:

Anakin: "Can you help her?" (talking about Ahsoka)

Father: "There is no light. Evil has been unleashed, and the Dark Side shall consume her".

At first I thought the Father was talking about the Daughter, but now it seems he's talking about Ahsoka. She's being consumed by the Dark Side, and dying of it. So if it "shall consume her", she's not already dead. Then daughter's action is not really to breathe life into her, but to pump Light through her body, purging the Dark infestation. I like that a lot more.

 

I like the direction they took with Dark Ahsoka. She isn't outright scary. It's more of a "She's so darkly light and bubbly that it's creepy" sort of thing.

The train of logic explains why there are so many horror movies with clowns.

 

I don't think it even matters was she dead or not she was not dead nor living but consumed by the dark side... it's just a vision so she couldn't have died there .... they should have left Ahsoka to live on Mortis so we wouldn't have any problem with continuity- everyone would mystically forget Anakin's padawan after Obi and Ani return to normal universe and Ahsoka wouldn't die she could be brought back any time....

Anyway.... but..... why didn't Son bite Anakin instead? even if dark side poison kills soon there would have been enought time for dark-Anakin to kill the Father ....I sense a plotholes in this episode ....

 

OK, I watched the commentary. Thanks for letting me know.

In the commentary, it is stated that what is happening on Mortis is "spiritual", and "metaphoric", and definitely not meant to be taken literally. What happens on Mortis is said to be similar to Luke's vision in the Dagobah cave...

Well, this does make me feel slightly better.

However, does this mean Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan all experienced these visions together? And also, if it was simply a metaphorical vision or dreamlike state, then what would have happened to Anakin had he accepted Father's offer to replace him as the Balance?

 

We see POV stuff of Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka, so you could assume they share this vision....then again, we also get scenes with the Son and Daughter fighting with no Jedi around....so it's theoretically possible it's just Anakin having the vision.

 

Exactly. That's why I think this is not quite like the Dagobah cave. Similar, yes, but not quite. The actions on Mortis have repercussions. If Anakin decided to stay there, he would have stayed there. If Ahsoka had died, she would be dead. Do you think the same thing goes for the Dagobah cave? Could Luke-Vader really have killed Luke? If Luke had invited Luke-Vader to come with him out of the cave and meet Yoda, we would be stuck with a second Vader for the rest of the saga? No, that was purely metaphorical, while Mortis is another plane of reality with metaphorical overtones.

Or something.

 

I don't get it, if all of this is a temporal meta whatever didn't ever happen, son and daughter can't really fly, shut a lightsaber off, balance of the whatever, then why do the episode in the first place? I agree with the reviews posted by theforce.net, these two episodes are very good in fact some of the best. Why cheapen it? Becuase some die hard group of fans want things a certain way? Becuase it was establihsed in a novel or comic book? Or because GL decided to contradict something? (like he hasn't sone that before---special edition--mutliple releases of the same movie ) Why not just tell the story and let it be. Let it be what it was meant to be, a possible (well we know the out come) preview of whats to come in ROTS. I like all these little nuggets that foreshadow the movies to the series, but the commentary by Dave. This makes me feel that this entire arc was a waste of time then. We should just go back to telling clone wars droids vs republic stories and the usual political drama.

 

You called?

To elaborate on the concept of balance (which turns out to not even contradict the movies), and to have some cool foreshadowing for Anakin.

 

Yeah.

Here's hoping... (Woo! I'm not alone on this.)

Them Mortis not-really-people-things are... it's like they have some weird psychosis, what they say and do almost makes sense, they engage you, convince you to play along, but there's still something off.

Anakin was damn right to walk away.

 

Commentary is up.

 

Believe it! I think that's part of the point. If you think the PT Jedi are out of touch in their (almost literal) Ivory Tower, the Mortis NRPTs have them beat hands down. They are out of touch, even less clear on the prophecy, and not up on current events. Out of the loop just like your average Star Trek Faux-Deity. They traffic in what sounds like metaphor, but on close examination turns out to be outdated fanfic. In the best case scenario, that's intentional.