Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 316: Altar of Mortis Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, but you're mistaking me. The place is real for me. I'm saying the way these characters are interacting with our heroes is largely determined by our heroes' attitudes, it's their Karma, so to speak. This place is strong with the Force, just like the Dagobah cave, and the place will reflect our heroes just like the cave reflected Luke.

    I even called the 'Contact' ending, remember? It went exactly as we predicted, including the 'off the scanners' remark by Rex.

    So I'm not even disagreeing with you. I'm just saying its purpose is the same as the cave's.
  2. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    As am I. Essentially if you agree with this 'GIF' then we agree completely...

    [image=http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Commander_Gray/final.gif]
  3. Darth_Tarkus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2011
    star 4
    I agree with most of it. ;) My only major disagreement is that I don't believe the Son and Daughter represent the Dark and so-called "Light" Sides of the Force, or good and evil for that matter, but you already knew that. (And what I mean by "represent" is that they are not the full embodiment or epitome of their respective "sides.")

    P.S. You should let me point out the couple spelling and grammatical errors so you can fix them. :D
  4. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    By having the Son and Daughter above ?dark? and ?light? I wasn?t intending them to be ?good? and ?evil?. Remember Evil is only brought into the equation once the Son is corrupted and mutates. Light on the other hand isn?t necessarily good... the FORCE is GOOD (in other words the entire scale). I think I will remove them in the revised version however.

    And please point out the spelling errors. I am going to revise it with the suggestions from you guys so we can get it more definitive.
  5. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I suppose that there's one thing worth re-asking (because I'm assuming it's been asked already at LEAST once) now that we have seen all three episodes, but to dial back to the original Overlords episode for a moment: is there any symbological significance to the fact that the signal the Father sent out to bring the gang to Mortis incorporated a Jedi distress signal over two thousand years old? Why that specific number of years? Does it have to do with the fact that the Sith Order, as the films understand it, began two thousand years ago with the defection of one rogue Jedi Master who became Darth Ruin? Or are we reaching way too far now? Discuss. :)
  6. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I think that idea has been brought up several times in this thread. I don't know anything about Darth Ruin though, so I can't remember what was said.
  7. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    And, by the way, to go totally left-field from my last question, let's bring up the subject of the Father dying, after the Daughter and then the Son have already died. I've mentioned this before in some of my posts on this episode, but I suppose we have to ask ourselves: with all the sides of the Force and the balance between them being symbolically dead in a three-part story that is essentially a vision using symbols, what does that translate to in the physical universe? Can the Force actually die out one day? My reasoning leads me to say yes, it can and it will. Remember that the Force is generated by life and living things ? and by that, we mean any and all forms of life in the universe, presumably from the lowest form of pre-animate matter to the most advanced form of sentient being and all the flora and fauna in between. The simple point, made by Kenobi and Yoda in the films themselves, that life is what creates and sustains the Force can give us a rough idea ? albeit on an unimaginably vast timescale ? of how long the Force has existed and how long it is likely to exist, especially if one takes seriously the proposition that the Star Wars galaxy exists in the same universe as our own, though it is situated very far from our galaxy in both distance and time.

    The existence of the Force, it would seem, depends on the existence of life itself, so the Force would have to have sprung into elementary existence not long after the most elementary forms of life began to appear in the universe. The Force would have become larger and more powerful as life became more complex, and especially so when sentience first emerged. But if the Force was both created and sustained by life ? indeed, by the very act of living ? then the Force can only exist as long as life itself exists, and modern cosmologists are beginning to suspect that there is in fact a point when all life in the universe will cease. As life can exist in some of the harshest conditions imaginable, this will take an unimaginably long time to happen, but according to the Big Freeze theory advocated by most cosmologists (which is increasingly becoming the accepted standard theory for how the universe is expected to end), the universe will eventually expand to the point where every element within it essentially runs down, achieving a state of complete equilibrium where there is no thermodynamic energy to sustain motion or life. At this point, called the heat-death of the universe, life ? even the raw materials for life ? cannot exist anywhere. The Force would thus begin to weaken and eventually dissipate as it loses its source of generation. It thus may be the last remnant of life to exist in the universe, but it too may fall prey to entropy.

    The significance of this may resonate with the fact that, of all the members of this whacked-out "family," only the Father disappears upon death, and that this was a conscious decision on the part of the creators of these shows, up to and possibly including Lucas himself. Is he essentially dissipating, as I suggest that the Force itself may eventually dissipate? Or does it represernt something else entirely? I've been able to translate all the events of the final climactic fight of these episodes into tangible physical-universe equivalents, as indeed a good number of others have (even though it is purposefully left to interpretation), but this part eludes me to a point. Maybe the dissapearing act is just a nod to the times Obi-Wan and Yoda did it in the classic trilogy, but I have no choice but to assume there's some meaning to it beyond that, because they've been trying real hard for me to assume some kind of meaning from every other part of this story.
  8. Claws_Bane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2011
    star 1
    Ahsoka seemed like she was drunk and taking way too much SPD pills. The chuckling was weird and how her reaction was.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't think that proposition can be taken entirely seriously.
  10. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    Why? Because of the existence of the Force? The idea of a galaxy-spanning civilization? Beings that look exactly like humans and a number of humanoid aliens that have a similar shape to them?
  11. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    Because it defeats the purpose of Star Wars. To place it in relation to our real galaxy in any way disconnects the Star Wars Universe from its purpose as a fairytale and mythology... it's 'another' universe...
  12. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Ugh this is the most pointless discussion ever considering SW:oops: it doesn't matter whether or not SW takes place in same universe as our own it depends on real nature of our own universe and SW is fiction anyway so what's the point- SW should have no clear established connection to earth so whether or not earth's parallel version exists in universe of SW it should never be revealed
    -just because SW is fantasy like a fairytale it's like asking whether or not Cinderella happens in same universe as reality or Lord of the Rings- it's pointless and stupid debate because they're fiction so it's point of view thing really- no fictional thing exists in real universe but whether or not reality exists in fictional universe depends on point of view and definition of "reality"

  13. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    What are you talking about Swash? Everything you just said agreed and reiterated my points exactly... yet somehow what I am saying is a pointless discussion? o_O
  14. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Sorry didn't mean your comment was pointless but i think we had already enough discussion about that subject....so my own fault taking part of pointless discussion and just continuing it.... now it think we have said it all.... sorry nothing personal just saying that matter is not worth of discussion...
  15. Darth_Tarkus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2011
    star 4
    Well, the opening screen does say "in a galaxy far, far away...." but the Force does not exist in our universe so that has to be squared away somehow.
  16. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Who are you to say the Force doesn't exist in our universe? Just because you're not a Force-sensitive doesn't mean your next door neighbour isn't. Perhaps the Jedi have been a long-persecuted race and are very secretive, operating as an underground cult type of thing. Witchhunts in the Middle Ages? Jedi. Jesus? King of the Jedi.

    Perhaps Lucas is a member of the secret Force-wielding cult and he decided to tell a story about his ideal universe where the Jedi are (for a while at least) not excluded but held up as guardians of freedom, order and peace in society, and the Jedi Purge is his stylised version of the real-life Jedi purges carried out across the span of our planet's bloody history.
  17. Darth_Tarkus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2011
    star 4
    You're right, I shouldn't have said the Force doesn't exist in our universe, but that no one on our planet is Force-sensitive. If you want to say Thor and Zeus were real people and actually Jedi I have no way of knowing if that's true or not, but I know that I've never seen anything that would imply that the Force exists - or that it doesn't. I have no way of knowing either way unless I see it for myself. Like God. I can't speak about the Middle Ages but witch hunts happened in the US because people ate moldy bread and had hallucinations, so I'm pretty sure there were no Jedi Knight involved with that. I'm sure a handful of Jedi Knights would be more than capable of defending themselves against a mob of neanderthals if they were ancient persecuted earthlings.
  18. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    There's so much in our own universe we cannot even hope to know.

    I hope the Jedi are reading this and realise that they are welcome in 21st century Earth society. Imagine that :eek:
  19. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Force is created by life- so i would say more life means stronger Force- if we want to toy with an idea that Force exists in our universe- we can say it's weak here because there is only one (known) planet filled with life- or maybe few but not too much apparently... but entire galaxy filled with life that makes it stronger :p

    that what i meant with pointless discussion..... this becomes fanon..... but anyway Yuuzhan Vong were not Forcesensitive so apparently GFFA is unique place in the universe where it is-

    Haha there is my fanon for you:p - just a crazy theory -I made up after Mortis and EU-facts: GFFA is artificially created by mystical species whills/celestials- heavenly architects- gods in some sense but mortal ones and below greater mysteries of the universe perhaps below greater beings not even knowing it-

    whills brought existing lifeforms from all the places of the universe or even another universes(including humans from earth?]-}) through space and time made a galaxy to be filled with life -through some magical technology they posessed - just that power of the life -they discovered- would be strong enough to be wielded as greatest power of the universe- The Force-
    they would play God by changing environments, moving entire celestial bodies (Corellia system) creating new species from existing ones and keeping them as primitive level just in case they would rebel....

    Then they had conflict- others starting to use the Force for bad purposes- civil war- and entire species was destroyed by powers they created- leaving the Force and device they used to empower it (Mortis Monolith?) behind for those 'lesser beings'- used to empower the Force- to use it themselves for good or for bad- they rediscovered it and started to study it.... haha there is explanation nearly for everything- Father may even be last of the whills- not even knowing it ;) until after his death


    Ok what this has to do with Star Wars of George Lucas?... pretty much nothing:p that's why this is pointless because not even eu dares to explain it all but that's one theory- still i would never like to see that as canon really :p
  20. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Which came first, life or the Force?[face_thinking]:-BAnd I think the aliens from KOTCS definitely took some humans back with them as slaves. How else can humans evolve exactly the same as they are here when both galaxies are trillions of lightyears apart? Freak coincidence? I think not.
  21. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Yeah crystal skull in Wookiee Hunt is evidence they were involved[face_laugh] ancient aliens also explain how Twi'leks and Zabraks seem to be so humanlike while having their own homeworlds- and togrutas look like possibly highly evolved twi'leks- think about- it male twi'leks have open humanlike ears but females have closed earcones[face_thinking] that are much like possible starting point of evolution of montrals:p
  22. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    That's a food for thought. Cone ears=evolutionary roots of montrals? Well I think it's pretty clear that Togrutas are a Twi'lek relative of some sort.
  23. DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 4
    No problem Swash [face_peace]

    Personally I think this defeats what the Saga is about. I always saw the "in a galaxy far, far away..." was more of an opening to a fairytale than a descriptive locating of the galaxy. But that's just me...
  24. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    You've got to believe Phil.
  25. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    It is still opening of fairy tale- it tells this is so far away from real world and current time that you don't need to think about it.... whether or not this galaxy is in the exact same universe depends on our point of view:-B thing is that it's very far away and story of saga is already happened it's not the future....

    There is that -possibly canon- backstory that says 100 years after the ROTJ R2-D2 told all happenings of the Saga to Shaman of the Whills who preserved them for future generations to come - sentients everywhere in the universe could hear about story of Anakin and Luke Skywalker and learn from it- including us:p

    Of course i'm well aware this is made-up fairytale... you don't have to worry about my mental health[face_laugh] ......but SW has this fantastic mythological aspect if we play along and imagine it "really happened" somewhere......of course it didn't - hey i know:p- but hey where is the fun in that?:-B

    Then George Lucas learned about this ancient legend and made movies from it while he let others to explore the "historical material" to write EU- that means all material including movies can have errors and R2-D2 - of course kept somewhere in the secret governmental warehouse in U.S[face_flag] (With Ark of the Covenant) don't always reveal all his secrets.... that's why material is sometimes contradicting [face_laugh]