Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 318: The Citadel Discussion Thread

Nobody said it's just Bespin. Vader acknoledged that the facility he was in was crude. Why is irrelevant. If he thought it was crude, then he needed to test it on someone. And since Vader's line indicates that he's familiar with the process, there's nothing wrong with the episode.

Nitpicking. What else...

 

Alexrd, Vader didn't test out any other facility than Bespin. If he did test out the Jedi Temple's one, then that could make sense. Don't you think if you're going to throw yourself into carbonite, you would want to test it out first? It shouldn't say, oh this chamber is nice, and this one is crude/needs to be tested out. If Anakin mentioned that he tested it out beforehand, then that would be fine.

 

I agree a simple line by Anakin stating that he had tested it on a womp rat or something would have been funny, informative, and would have made a greater TESB reference.

 

Yes, but dothey really need to show that? If he was the one who got the carbon freezing chamber, one is led to assume that it was safe, or that he tested it first.

 

The episode implies that even if carbon freezing living things isn't common, it is at least known about. No one reacts with surprise at the idea of actually doing it and so the Jedi's freezing chamber must be able to do it. The point is that Bespin's chamber is probably intended to freeze living things because it's solely an industrial facility. The equipment is old, not calibrated for the task and the workers probably don't have the experience. The Jedi's freezing chamber has probably been used for living things before and so there is no need to test it. On Bespin Lando raises concerns about the equipment being able to freeze a person and so Vader tests it first.

 

Did they really need Anakin to say "this is the first time for us, too" and render Shipyards of Doom non-canon?

No, but they did it anyway.

 

That would have been EPIC! Han paralleling a Womp Rat!

 

Mentioned, not actually show.

 

Is there any reason that the Jedi Temple couldn't have a human-rated carbon freeze facility, while Bespin just has one for Tibanna (or whatever)? The EU has presented Carbon Freezing as a method used by early explorers for pre-hyperspace interstellar voyages, Anakin plainly knows that it is an option for evading lifeform sensors, so the knowledge of the capability is there. Maybe it's in the Temple because it's a way for safely containing and transporting captured Dark Siders or other powerful or dangerous lifeforms, which is sort-of exactly what Vader wants from the Bespin facility, except that it's never been used for humans - hence the test. Thus it's a possibility that the more technically-aware members of a 10,000 year-old galaxy-spanning organisation might be well aware of, and want to have at their disposal, but the galaxy at large is not.

 

I have a question: What would have happened if the Clones had gone into the Carbon Freeze with their helmets on? When they are on, their suit becomes sealed against vacuum, so would they still be conscious if they were surrounded in carbonite? Does carbonite only hibernate people on skin contact, or would the clones still be unconscious if they had their helmets on?

 

I assume that the helmet would protect them from the gas, which would make them detectable on CIS scans.

 

Yeah but that's the inherent problem with the TV format right? They're already having to cut out things to get it to fit 22 minutes. You wish they mentioned the carbon freezing (which I get), another wants them to mention something else, etc. Eventually you keep adding seconds here and there and you just can't fit it in.

I feel like people need to understand that certain allowances have to be made when watching a 22 minute cartoon. To you that comment may be vitally important. But to many others it isn't. In the end, Filoni and co. sided with those who thought it wasn't that important. If people would learn to accept that it's a limitation of the format, we can all be a little less nit-picky.

 

Ah, back to the regular Clone Wars. This is my favorite kind of episode, pure action, pure fun. Loved all the refrences to the OT. Seeing Tarkin was awesome, his voice was perfect. Great stuff between him and Anakin. Also nice to see the commando droids again. Even Piell is a fun character and Osi Sobeck is an awsome Christopher Walken character, it sounds like JAT had a lot of fun with the role. I might have said "fun" too much but oh well, that word just sums up this episode well. 9.5/10

 

This talk of a prequel for a carbon freezing chamber in the Jedi Temple hangar makes me think we'll get an episode called "Carbon Footprint", wherein they either a) discuss things with a maintenance crew a'la Han Solo in ANH to get a chamber, or b) rescue some Ugnaughts who get them hooked up in gratitude.

Or even c) a band of bounty hunters, infiltrating the temple, have a Han Solo moment which leads to the carbon chamber being placed for no apparent reason.

 

What I find amusing is that in the commentary Dave refers to Season One as "that time when we used to quote and reference the movies a lot in the episodes". Say what? I don't believe this sort of thing has ever been done as heavily as in Season 3...

 

Oh, yeah, Filoni, season three is void of any movie references...

Season two has multiple instances as well, but a lot more references to other films.

 

Actually that's not a bad thought: Maybe the difference between living and non-living carbon freezing is some sort of prep chemical. Maybe something that's put into the gas to help the body handle the shock of carbon freezing.

The only thing I wish they had done was have one of the clones killed by the process. If for no other reason is that it might tamp down some of the debate about why it was dangerous in ESB and didn't seem to be in TCW (lol).

 

Like I said before, this carbon freezing thing don't jive with me too good. Never liked the idea and one of the big reasons I brought the episode down several notches. Leave that stuff in The Empie Strikes Back.

 

Well, overall a very enjoyable straightforward adventure episode.

3 things that irritated me:

(1) Does Henry Gilroy get writing credit for this episode? This is beyond a ripoff of the beginning of Shipyards of Doom. So I was completely unsurprised when Ahsoka managed to tag along. Oh, they mention it in the episode guide, but don't seem to have a problem with taking the exact premise that we've already seen and re-using it. That's a little weak.

(2) Using the carbon freezing was already somewhat sketchy in Shipyards and it continues here. I don't really care as much as some of you, but it's just another "tie-in" to the OT that is completely unnecessary. It's like BSG: "This has all happened before and will happen again".

I will give them points for having the actual sound effects from the ESB carbon freezing and it was nice to see an Ugnaught, also the animated model doesn't work too well.

(3) Obviously Ahsoka was coming along, but of course there was a maintenance hatch that only she could get through. What would they ever do without her?


Otherwise, I thought the episode was great, although the Christopher Walken prison warden was kind of strange. Also somewhat funny that they would have a prison on a half-destroyed(?) planet with its core exposed.

The dialogue was pretty great, they absolutely nailed Tarkin, and the action was excellent.

It was strange how the episode ended but I'm hopeful they'll just jump right in after the newsreel next week or whenever.

 

As the fortune cookie says, "Adaption is the key to survival." I'm sure they would have found another way into the Citadel if Ahsoka was not with them. Her being able to fit in the ventilator shaft was just the fastest option at that point. It's not as if the entire mission would have failed had Ahsoka been left behind.

Why are people having a problem with carbon freezing being in this episode? Is ESB some sort of sacred ground that nobody better dare use any idea from it ever again?

 

People, let me tell you a little story.

This one movie came out a while ago where this guy got frozen in carbonite, and this other guy was all, this facility is crude and we better test it. So some people who saw that movie thought that freezing people in carbonite was way new and had nevar evar been done before, which was fine.

Then three years later this other movie came out where some chick got the same guy out of the carbonite, and he was all "I can't see" and she was all "Oh yeah, hibernation sickness, happens all the time". So then we knew that enough people get frozen in carbonite that the symptoms of unfreezing are commonly known. So I guess we found out that some of us were wrong about what we though we learned about carbon freezing in the other movie.

The end. Until thirty years after that...

 

Oh my goodness- still complaining about carbonfreezing..... well in ESB Vader says This facility is crude, but it should be adequate to freeze
Skywalker for his journey to the Emperor. it is like "This facility sucks (compared to better one on coruscant)but I think it can freeze Luke (because i know carbonfreezing is safe i've done it before)- this should there really suggests that he knows someone have survived- if he would have said it "could be adequate" then it would have given impression of crazy idea- now it sounds like he have done it before- i always thought he have- not even Vader would try something that crazy for his own son...

and Lando says Lord Vader, we only use this facility for carbon freezing. If
you put him in there, it might kill him.
he is like "What the heck man we cannot carbonfreeze living guys- it can kill- i mean... we have never tried and sounds damn dangerous (I've never done it before)" might tells that Lando has no idea what would happen....

and then- only then Vader says I do not want the Emperor's prize damaged we will test it on captain Solo (just in case- i don't want my son to be killed by some ****ty chamber on some backwater world with hardly legal gas-mining-activity) so there is no probs

later 3po says "Oh...they've encased him in carbonite. He should be quite
well-protected -- if he survives the freezing process, that is." So even 3po is familiar with process and knows that if living being survives freezing it won't kill-

Boba is not sure so he asks what will happen if this crude chamber kills Solo- Vader says- oh Empire will compensate that....so Boba apparently is not terribly familiar with that idea......

 

Use the Force to press the button?

 

TCW-jedi are many times like"...oh hey i almost forget that i can use the Force"- i'm sure they could've made it without Ahsoka- but ironically she proved to be useful- it was "lego star wars- moment" a special hatch only small character can use to gain access to the next area

there was lots of references to sw-videogames- unintentional maybe...

as i said JAT saying droids have magnetised feet reminded me of ROTS-game- little turrets were like tripmines from Jedi Knight- games and entire mission was funnily similar with one level from Rogue Leader- Prisoners of Maw- where Wedge and rogues go to Maw- cluster of blackholes- there is one shattered planet (or planetoid)naturally in asteroidfield where is Imperial prison on that planet (amongst the lavalakes) really similar situation- i wonder if it's pure coincidence

even more ironic is that EU knows another Maw-installation and who was behind that... well Tarkin of course

 

Regarding carbon freezings remember that Vader clearly didn't expect it to work, 'perhaps you are not as strong as the Emperor thought...impressive, most impressive'. So therefore to me he tested it on Han just in case and cause he could and thought why not. He probably thought back to his experience and thought it was a good fake attempt so no-one would ask questions so it doesn't really matter how he got the idea, it was a fake attempt.