Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 318: The Citadel Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Feb 14, 2011.

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  1. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    It wasn't an asteroid though. It was a half blown-up planet with its core exposed. Which creates other problems, but oh well.
  2. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Hey come on SW is more like fairytale.... in other thread Falor Windrider whines how politics is not realistic in Sw and now we get into physics here[face_tired] :_| Leave the realism alone damn it - realism doesn't belong in Star Wars- it's epic tale that has made up universe and yes it's not realistic.... ESB has asteroid with "nearly breathable atmosphere"- they has tiny masks only when going outside and actually they are in the belly of the beast that lives in vacuum.... yeah terribly logic that is....
  3. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    ^This. People think too much when they watch this show. It doesn't have to be completely flawless and realistic for me to love it, enjoy the show for what it is.
  4. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Guys, I said "oh well".

    Which means I don't really care about it. ;)

    Chill out. :p
  5. KelDorMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    You cared enough to post it, so expect a response :p

    This has probably been discussed but Lola Sayu looked very much like Peragus. It was at least modeled after it. After Selkath in Pursuit of Peace, Revan almost being in Ghosts of Mortis, and Peragus essentially showing up in The Citadel one can only wonder what other KOTOR references they'll bring up...
  6. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    No, I cared to tell Robimus that it wasn't an asteroid, but a planet. ;)

    Yeah, it totally looked like Peragus.
  7. Anakin_Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2005
    star 1
    Having a carbon chamber in the temple does seem odd.... I guess they borrowed it and the ugnaught. haha
  8. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Yes, I assume they set up the carbon freezing chamber in the Temple.

    The Jedi are basically like the guys from Mythbusters.
  9. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Well there is much more severe physical impossibilities in TCW than Lola Sayu- for example Rising Malevolence- even if clone armor and Plo's mask protect them from the vacuum they have not enough oxygen to breath without oxygentanks.... what about Jedi Crash with tiny world orbiting it's tiny star so close that flight from star to planet takes just few secondso_O
    Not even to mention interesting contradiction between internal logic of these eps- while they turn all systems off in RM internal gravity of Twilight remains- while in Jedi Crash it disappears too.... of course this artificial gravity may not be electrical system and therefore need not to be turned off in RM but well we shouldn't think this too much writers should[face_monkey]

    Star Wars has it's own laws what comes to physics;)... One thing i want to be logic is that gravity is towards objects like celestial objects or big ships (internal gravity of ships is of course another thing) not "down" because in space there is no "up" or "down"- ARC troopers for example used this idea right- still would be nice to see some fleet that wouldn't be always on same level just near planets equator:p.... also would be refreshing to see planet with no breathable atmosphere- droids and clones with special armor and jedi with environmental suits or something:p
  10. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    I'd argue that the universe Star Wars takes place in never has adhered to each and every one of the same laws of physics as our own, even as of the Original Trilogy. Case in point, the grandaddy of them all: asteroid belts.

    Watch The Empire Strikes Back, then read about our own solar system's asteroid belt, and right then and there, you should realize- expecting Star Wars to explicitly adhere to each and every law of physics we have in the real world is pointless, because the way Star Wars portrays asteroid belts is G-canon, and thus can't be retconned away in the interest of real-world accuracy. Besides which, even if such an attempt were made, ESB-style asteroid belts are so ingrained in the way Star Wars tells stories there's no way you could extricate it. It's a part of the universe by now- and a tell-tale sign that the universe Star Wars exists in demonstrably differs from our own.

    In other words, as Swash says in the post above me, maybe these sorts of things aren't as against the laws of Star Wars physics as they are against the laws of real-world physics. [face_peace]
  11. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I didn't realize that but by all appearances it doesn't change my thought process much. It would have been nice to see some specialized equipment, including some type of breathing apparatus.

    Overreact much?

    All I know is that I said numerous positive things about this episode when I gave my thoughts and once again something I percieved to be a negative was the focus of the usual suspects.........And people accuse me of being negative.............

    To continue my previous thought, Citadel was an episode I quite enjoyed, but because I have a critcism I'm suddenly not enjoying the show and thinking too much.....

  12. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Actually my comment was not only about your comment but mainly about Alpha-Red's physical essay about "how planet's core exposed really behaves in the vacuum of space" Damn it we don't even know what material the core was- or what kind of space there is around Lola Sayu - what if it's not cold vacuum but filled with warm but invisible intergalactic dust[face_alien_1] this sort of thinking really tooks all fun away from the episode and makes all too complicated.... sorry nothing personal about your comments criticism just went bit too far IMO and considering how damn serious analysis there is in other threads about "realism of politics in SW" i just feared similar issue is brought up here- sorry my mistake- forgive me i didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings[face_praying] [:D]


    And about asteroid belt we really didn't hear anyone to say it's similar asteroid belt than one in our solarsystem- reason why it's so filled with asteroids is not told but it may make sense with real physics even if we just add odd coincidences there- universe is not thoroughly known and while i trust science i think it is bit overrated since many basics things in the universe is not possible to thoroughly explain with science without some completely made up theories like gravitons or dark matter- those are simply X:s and Y:s added to their calculations that universe would 'make sense' in their mathematical theories since it doesn't otherwise- galaxies have not enough matter to exist as objects yet they do etc. (don't worry invisible and undetectable dark matter explains that)

    Science is nice and right way to explore universe but still "we can explain everything with science"-attitude is just one of the world's religions- science today is not all-knowing all powerful theory that explains everything and if you believe it is... then.... what are you doing here:confused: we are talking about made up popcorn-fantasy with shattered planets, sound in space, extremely humanlike aliens and magic known as the Force -nothing that would really make sense according to science....
  13. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I call hijinx here, if your not concerned with some realism in Star Wars you shouldn't have an issue with Darth Maul surviving being cut in half by Obi-Wan. It can just be explained away as "something that makes sense in the Star Wars Universe".
  14. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    I suppose that there would be another good example of the 'dislike one thing, love others' attitude. I've seen it before, really, with some fans gravitating more towards one side than the other, and there are no hard and fast rules on what they can like or dislike. It's really something normal. Sometimes befuddling maybe, but it's also a very human thing to do.

    But really, we should keep in mind that this episode has been liked by a pretty big majority. [face_peace]
  15. ChrisMathers Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2008
    star 1
    I know I'm more than a bit late in sharing my thoughts on this episode as if it weren't for the break they would have aired the next episode already, but meh...

    While it was an excellent episode, there's just one nagging issue that's so blatant it made me go crosseyed and see stars - Dave talks in the commentary about how he and Henry Gilroy talked about this idea of carbon freezing, and it's even in Shipyards of Doom. But they add in a totally unnecessary couple of lines about how they've never done it before when...they have. And not in some novel from the 80s or a video game from seven or eight years ago but IN THE CLONE WARS COMIC! That comic is pretty much part of the show which means that the show contradicted ITSELF! This isn't an issue of The Clone Wars vs the EU, it's an issue of The Clone Wars vs The Clone Wars.

    BUT! Anakin DID get his mind wiped clean of his Darth Vader future on Mortis and maybe it had unintended side effects, and "a lot of the General's plans involve falling" so maybe Anakin didn't catch Rex in time once and he hit his head. That or he shaved so much he went past the skull and kept going. Still, it's hard to make excuses for the writers when WOOKIEEPEDIA IS RIGHT THERE AT THEIR FINGERTIPS.

    But! It did NOT affect my enjoyment of this episode. I still give it a ten out of ten, a score I have, in the past, only reserved for episodes that were about or at least had a strong focus on the clones. Only episodes that scored so high in my book were Rookies (and the two episodes that bookended it), The Hidden Enemy, The Deserter, and Brain Invaders. Good enough as it would have been without him, Tarkin is what bumped this one up from a nine, but I'll get to him later.

    Snips being her bratty little self wasn't really a bad thing for me. In fact, I'll be disappointed if she ever develops a mature attitude. And I don't know what Plo said after he got all silent, if anything, but I very much doubt he gave her permission explicitly. And while he probably might let her get away with more than Anakin does, I don't think he'd appreciate her using whatever he said as a greenlight to just disobey Anakin. The way he said "He IS your master" sounded like he was either making excuses for Anakin's decision, gently reminding her of her place, or both.

    While the background behind it was a huge misstep, I liked the way the freezing and unfreezing was handled. They even brought in an Ugnaught! Because hey, let's face it, Ugnaughts just love being one-note stereotypes who like to freeze things. The best part about the carbonite process was how Echo and Fives came out stumbling and disoriented. No, wait...actually the BEST thing about the whole carbonite thing was the part where the reprogrammed battle droid pilot told Citadel Command, in a subtle but epic moment of battle droid humor, that his cargo was "Supplies and, uh, frozen rations."

    The part where the Jedi and their troopers were running around blasting the cameras and turrets took me back to when I was ten years old and watching A New Hope for the first time during their 20th anniversary. As awesome as all the homage episodes from Season Two were, I absolutely loved this: an episode of Star Wars, inspired by Star Wars. Some neat touches with the electrified magnetic ceiling and the commando droids' magnetized feet, also how the six-lens camera doubles as a loudspeaker.

    Osi Sobeck was cool. I liked how he was all insane and going off on ranting monologues to his his droids. The interrogator droid had a suitably creepy voice and that "Say goodbye to your one good eye" line was just...uuugh...that was awesome. Even Piell's Russian accent just sounded badass. But despite the Russian accent and the Christopher Walken voice, the best voice acting in this episode belongs to the guy doing the Peter Cushing voice. Forget A New Hope for a minute and watch this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbveLj9_rfc and compare the voices. It's divided up into parts so you'll have to keep clicking on the next one once every ten minutes, but, smal
  16. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Why do people keep telling me this? I simply don't get it. Didn't I like it enough?:-B I did give Citadel one of the best ratings I've given any episode this season.
  17. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5

    You're not allowed to criticize anything, ever. You must praise TCW at all times, preferably in song form. Your heart must gush over the wonder that is every single frame of TCW.
  18. koonfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 4
    Uh, Rob, I was actually trying to defend you. As in, 'don't get blindsided by a negative comment, he's not hating on it'. I could have been more specific about that, I suppose. My logic behind that was directed at the guys who mostly liked it. I was thinking 'a lot of people had good things to say about it, so there isn't really much hate despite the errors', not 'be quiet with the criticism because you're drowned out by the majority'. [face_peace]
  19. AhsokaMiro Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2008
    star 3
    Carbon freezing was invented by ugnauts. They have a monopoly on the technology and they manufacture all of the equipment to be ugnaut-height, with ugnaught-specific ergonomics, and all of the instruction are in ugnese. You wanna freeze ****, you gotta bring in an ugnaut labor force to get it done. That's my story, anyway.

    Still would be cool to see an ugnaut Jedi.
  20. KelDorMaster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    Not exactly. We've never seen someone survive being bisected before. At least to my knowledge and at G-Canon
  21. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    Fair point. If an orbit can have far too much material without its combined gravity having caused it to sort of... glomp together to form a planet while the Hoth system was forming and instead have become an asteroid belt with paradoxically massive amounts of large asteroids that orbit really, really close together in a stable manner in total, inexplicable defiance of the law of gravity in a number of ways, then I guess getting cut in half and falling down a pit and surviving isn't necessarily that ridiculous an idea after all.

    So much for my respect for this franchise. *sigh*
  22. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    What - you think this hard sci fi? ;) It's space opera, fantasy - :D
  23. Darth_Tarkus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2011
    star 4
    Golly gee, don't ya knows it! God knows other than you select few geniuses we common folk never have anything negative to say about any aspect of any episode of the series ever.

    That's ugnaut labor union, get it right.
  24. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Ugnaughts don't just like to freeze things. They like to play keep-away with the blasted-apart spare parts of protocol droids.
  25. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    While working in a smelting furnace. And also operating a nasty boss machine for Chewbacca to fight in said smelting furnace.

    Gee, maybe they AREN'T such one-note stereotypes after all!
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