Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 318: The Citadel Discussion Thread

Well whatever, maybe not ENTIRELY one-note, but hey, you want cheap labor, you want Ugnaughts. I don't think I've ever seen one NOT wearing a vacsuit, coveralls or SOME kind of work attire.

Actually i have no problem if that's the case- let's say Sidious has power to keep people from dying- that makes sense since he says Plagueis had and he taught his apprentice everything he knew- he just lied to Anakin he doesn't know and used same power to keep him alive after he received fatal injuries on Mustafar- Palpy arrived Naboo right afte Maul died- maybe he found him nearly dead and saved him in secret....

but things like "Zabraks can survive easily from that" are not making sense in-universe because jedi obviously think Maul must be dead..... I just fear they ahve explanation that doesn't make sense in-universe... in real life people are known to survive alive after being cut in half- believe it or not....

Maw in EU is example of a half guy still living.... and in G-canon Maul and Poggle and some other geonosians may be only living beings bisected at least for now i don't remember anyone else there is mostly severed limbs.... if we don't count decapitations of course(Jango, Dooku, Gree)- those are more lethal due to disconnection of heart and brains- causing immediate loss of blood in the head- killing brains very fast- Zabraks are known to have two hearts so maybe they have more blood and loss of blood that was huge in TPM and would've killed human may not be lethal for Zabrak .... also as Force-user (not even to mention ex-nightbrother- he may possess unbelievable "magical" talents) Maul can be surprisingly tough- Starkiller survived some time in vacuum and his clone spent thirteen days in isolation with no food or anything- just the Force... and he is closest to Maul i can think of what comes to powerlevels- Anakin's injuries on Mustafar and Grievous are also examples of nearly dead guys still living.... not even to mention Sith Lords like Darth Sion or Nihilus from Kotor .... and G-canonical Plagueis who knew to "cheat the death" and forceghosts of jedi which are G-canonical- and even Sith-Ghosts known by EU nearly made their way into T-canon....

My biggest problem with Maul still living is that it makes no sense with continuity- he was replaced by Dooku and not seen in over ten years- also his death was confirmed by all official sources- one book version of TPM even says "he felt to the pit and was never seen again" and as said official databank says it was moltening pit and if loss of blood when being bisected don't kill ya- or the impact when you hit the bottom of the shaft- or falling to the pit of molten metal or something... well... you're dead

enoug non-topic talk now

Plagueis himself may be G-canon, but it is not G-canon that Plagueis "cheated death". In the EU it is specifically said that he did not achieve the ability.

Well that's EU- G-canon doesn't reveal if Palpy is lying or not- actually Plagueis-character is not even confirmed to be real in G-canon....it's just like Talzin saying Maul lives- it is said out loud by in-universe character- but factual accuracy is disputed in-universe- looks like Palpatine lied then well.... he does that quite a lot but if Lucas wants to steamroll over EU there is one way to explain Maul's survival without having conflict with G-canon- Plagueis and his hypothetical powers- i think George has confirmed Plagueis is real and he was male muun sith lord who taught Sidious(you have his pic as icon i see)....
I don't like this Maul-idea any more than most people but i just hope it's making sense with movies..... and if also with EU- even better but my personal take is that eu-continuity can be replaced.... but usually there is no need to do that....

He's in the OS databank, for whatever that's worth.

Doesn't that make it G-canon?

Actually, he tends to manipulate while using literally true statements, while his public persona as kindly Chancellor could be said to be a "lie" in a different sense. Though it may have been implied, he never specifically said that Plagueis "cheated death" ( which in the EU is different from saving other beings who are dying ). He did say that Plagueis was dead... that he could save others from death, but not himself. The key here is that Palpatine's needs and Anakin's needs are not entirely identical. Anakin wants the power to keep Padme from dying, while Palpatine wants the power to keep himself from dying.

I only watched this episode yesterday. I don't have time to read through all 22 pages of discussion on this episode, so forgive me if someone mentioned this already...

I understand that the suggestion was made that the carbon freezing units they used in the episode were far less "crude" than the one used in TESB, and therefore were far "safer". What I don't understand is how Anakin knew that it would be safe to carbon freeze life forms without any sort of testing. Isn't it a terrible risk to take? Or are they somehow implying that this technology is used to freeze life forms all the time?

It seems to me that carbon freezing is usually used for commodities other than life forms. Lando expressed his shock and anger when Vader mentioned testing the facility on Han Solo. "We only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put him in there, it could kill him!". They only use it for "carbon freezing". Isn't that what the random ones in the Jedi Temple (WTF?) were used for as well? Yet, somehow Anakin knew that his band of infiltrators would survive the freezing process.

To me, this episode cheapens the drama we experience in TESB when Solo was frozen. It takes away from the sense of danger.

Oh, and why are Ughnauts the only people capable of operating carbon freeze units?

Did I miss an episode this week or was there a break? I didn't DVR Friday and it's set to DVR all new episodes... :/

Break.

yeah, there was a two week break between Citadel and Counter Attack.

This 2 week break couldn't go any slower could it? Someone wake me up when it's Friday

I'm glad there was a break.

Nope- George's sayings or confirmations are not G-canon until he adds them to some movie or something- he have also said "Emperor will never get cloned and Luke won' get married" still that's not G-canon- and OS databank has errors- and for unknown reason Maul is still also from Iridonia... and for another unknown reason SW.com doesn't work now

Hey wait a minute- is it confirmed that Plagueis really was able to save others- i was talking about that power in the first place- he couldn't save himself but is the "saving others" also lie? And yes Palpatine uses cunningly even truth as 'lie'- he is able to manipulate others because he is soo good in making truth to look different than it is- but sometimes he also just lies....

Well maybe they already tested temple's freezers with something that lives...

Good. Keep it that way.

Nope- George's sayings or confirmations are not G-canon until he adds them to some movie or something

That's not entirely true because G-canon includes works done by GL and also his notes which may or may not be public knowledge. There may be many things that are 'G-canon' that we do know about. As long as he means it seriously, what GL proclaims should be G-canon, but we will not necessarily know whether it is 'true' or not unless it is included in a source or acknowledged to be part of continuity - ie Lucas can name a character as he did with Motti, but whether that name is actually going to be treated as canon is unknown until someone confirms it, or GL makes it clear when he says it. GL created the character of Plagueis and also said some time later that he was a Muun. Although that info was not in a source at the time, it was still ackowledged as canonical.


What I don't understand is how Anakin knew that it would be safe to carbon freeze life forms without any sort of testing. Isn't it a terrible risk to take? Or are they somehow implying that this technology is used to freeze life forms all the time?

Carbon freezing living things may not be common but it must be known about in order for them to be so confident about it. Perhaps it is even less common to freeze people because there is some risk involved and there is not usually a reason to do it. In ROTJ Leia mentions 'hibernation sickness' and in The Citadel Obi-Wan refers to 'carbon sickness', indicating that freezing people must have been done before for such conditions to be known about, but it is probably not without some risk to your health, especially if you stay frozen for a long time.

Bear in mind that carbon freezing hasn't been seen often and Ugnaughts have been seen doing the freezing twice. In TESB the Ugnaughts are workers on Cloud City - you can see that they do other jobs as well. It may be the case that Ugnaughts or their companies are involved with the technology - perhaps they invented it, or developed a particularly good version of it, which is why their people are experts in running the machines and maintaining them.

The Jedi may have had a chamber for freezing perishable supplies or maybe dangerous and volatile substances. They also had an expert Ugnaught working there, which may be why they were so confident about freezing people. The Cloud City chamber was an industrial facility and was not calibrated for living things, since a Tibanna gas mine has no need to freeze people. It was possible for it to be done but much more risky, which is why Vader wanted it tested on Han. Freezing people is probably relatively safe so long as you have the right set up to do it - which Cloud City did not really have, so Han's life was at risk.




And people were saying that Threepio's appearance was a bit pointless, but I wonder whether they put him in this episode to hint at him having seen carbon freezing before, owing to his comments in TESB.

Well 3po's mind was wiped in ROTS but he probably saw carbonfreezing sometime prior ANH -but good explanation for carbonfreezing thing.....

and thanks for clearing up the "officiality of GL's sayings" issue

Actually if Father from Mortis really was a real being once before his exile it seems possible he knew how to create life by manipulation of midichlorians since his "children" seem to have no mother and they are real embodiments of the Force Ok off-topic here....

It ain't there. It's been totally blown away. Destroyed...by the Empire!

From the EU POV ( Dark Lord specifically ), probably not. Outside the EU there's no hard confirmation that I know of.

Blasphemy!

Personally, I like that it's so quiet out here. I can catch up on the reg manuals.

Plus I wasn't able to get a bag of...um, er, uh, let's just call it glitterstim...last week.

Haha yes, for some reason glitterstim is hard to come by right now in my area too.