Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 319: Counterattack Discussion Thread

We've had virtually no battle droid humor since season 1, I'm perfectly fine with it as long as it was subdued (along with Jar Jar humor, Star Wars always needs a humorous edge to it.)

 

Tarkin's comment about the Jedi being wrong to lead the war felt out of place and more like the writers bashing the Jedi to me. Palpatine is the top commander of all Republic military forces and he is leading the war. For Tarkin's comment to work, he needed to give some examples of poor Jedi decisions. Was rescuing him a poor Jedi decision? And he should have be shown actually doing something useful, instead of just complaining for the entire episode.

 

Wow. I firmly believe a group of JROTC cadets could do a better job of escaping than the Jedi and "ARC" troopers.

Throwing grenades two feet away from your master to kill a couple of droids?

In past episodes we've seen Obi Wan and crew get captured only to suddenly KO the few guards in the room once they were brought to the commander of the week. Yet now they meekly get led away and interrogated by four commando droids? And then transported by four BATTLE DROIDS?!!

I felt like the deaths of the grunt clones were purely to show how "better" Echo and Fives were. (which didn't work)

Besides the bad tactics there was also the pointless death of Echo. Who also acted out of character.
He draws fire towards their only method of escape to save it? WHY? He has a range finder. Fives couldn't give him cover fire while Echo sniped the droid? They've done that before in the Battle for Kamino.
Imma Gonna Die's ARC trooper was able to kill more droids and withstand more damage than Echo. Side note: They really need to diside how much ARC armor can take. Rex gets taken out by a sniper, IG's ARC can take a grenade and two blaster shots however, and Echo who has more armor than both Rex and IG's ARC get incinerated. Except for the helmet of course. You know, whatever those helmets are made out of I want it. Every ARC's helmet is able to withstand a nuke I swear.

Fun episode, but pointless deaths. Although I will admit. Like Justice League Unlimited, they're getting away with a lot for a "kids show." Then again both shows were on before Adult Swim so maybe they're the bridge between the line ups.

 

I agree that more Tarkin would have been better, but I loved that bit of dialogue. He has a rational(ized?) distaste for the Jedi, and Anakin agreeing with him that the Jedi Code hinders them from doing what must be done is a weighty moment in my opinion.

 

No he had a point. The Jedi are mostly peacekeepers. They are not the best people to lead a military force. It would be like asking a cop to lead SEALS. Different mentality. Cops want to arrest the enemy and use deadly force as a last result. The military is just there to kill you.

 

I like that we can see the guns poking through the shields, as in certain droideka shots.

 

One was massacred by a turrent.

The comment page for the episode guide is going nuts after the death of Echo.

 

Really enjoyed it. It was a strong second episode. Some great action once again and I enjoyed the Anakin/Tarkin interaction. It's not surprising too psychos would find something to agree with. This episode racked up some new violent deaths. Poor Echo.

 

Overall I enjoyed it, lots of stupid but entertaining action. I was partially distracted during the episode, so I'll have to watch it again.

Pretty much made it clear that Ahsoka lied...

Awesome clone deaths. Loved the clone getting shot point blank. Why didn't the warden keep going?

Echo's final actions were pretty stupid, glad he died, too bad he had to take the shuttle with him. It's possible the turret was going for the shuttle anyway, but still pretty stupid.

Can't say I feel bad, they're just droids with skin to me.

Now all that's left of that group is "Call me Fives" Fives, who has no personality other than blasting droids. I'm fine with his personality and I hope they keep it that way. I hope they kill him off and move on.

I guess when the B1 battle droids work for the Republic their effectiveness increases by 200%.

Many of the actions in this episode didn't make sense, but I guess that's consistent with the level of tactics shown in TCW.

Oh, and can Even Piell do anything that doesn't involve a piggyback ride? I get it, he's small.

Oh I loved the appearances of the mouse droids and what looked like a Viper Probe droid.

 

Good episode but seemed pretty ?flat? to me... but then again the middle episodes of three-part-arcs typically do. So I?m guessing this episode will improve in retrospect with the final episode.

The clone deaths and the progression of the story was rather well done... however it seemed a bit repetitive at times. Understandably however it naturally gets that way in action packed episodes and they did try and change it around with the fuel pipe, etc.

Tarkin?s character development is great and realistic. He outlines some of the problems with the Jedi Code which, in my opinion, are justified. He seems almost like a ?General Patton? type character; brash, head-strong, true warrior and critical of higher officers. He seems to mix that character with the quintessential British WW1/WW2 officer with the accent etc...

Echo?s death was heroic in my opinion and not ?stupid?. The turret was going to destroy the shuttle and he did what he could to stop that. However I would have preferred if Fives was killed instead...

 

Tarkin gave no examples and since he is a military member, if he thought he could do better, then his character should have been shown doing something. If it wasn't for those peacekeepers, he would be still sitting in a cell awaiting to be tortured.


EDIT:

Tarkin hasn't done anything except complain for the last two episodes. He has done nothing to aid in the escape.

 

I really wish Ahsoka wasn't involved in the episode. She just annoyed the hell out of me for some reason. Echo's death and the repetitive use of the word "trap" in the beginning were other issues I had.

I said it before, Echo didn't need to go out of character to do something heroic but ended up failing miserably. It didn't felt like something Echo would have done.

 

Not to start anything but that's pretty simple minded. This show has shown that these clones aren't "droids with skins."

If that was Rex that did that(someone who has been fleshed out as a character, not just a tough guy clone) the reaction would of definitely been much bigger but for the audience(a lot of younger kids probably) to have that kind of reaction to Echo, who's has gotten had some character growth, one of the most out of all the other clones that have made several appearances on this show minus Cody and Rex means something.

It's one of the reasons GG likes this show probably.

 

Yeah, I don't think "droids with skin" would ask metaphysical questions about their own existence. At least, not in the Star Wars universe. It's clear that droids aren't respected as sentient in the Star Wars universe, and it's made just as clear in TCW that the clones have infinitely more self-awareness/self-concept than do droids. Now, whether or not one empathizes with that or is indifferent towards it is another issue.

 

She just seems to be more of an ass every time we see here. After Anakin scolds her for lying, she's just there with a smirk "Whatever, I do what I want!"

And then she throws grenades at Anakin's feet. Is she insane?

 

I don't even think she gave them a heads up.

 

Yeah, I was expecting her to use the Force and do something strategic with them...when she just kinda randomly tossed them in there I was like...huh?

 

I wouldn?t say he has complained as much as he has offered military advice and provided criticism on the tactics implemented by people he thinks shouldn?t be leading the military.

I also don?t quite understand what everyone expects him to be doing... he is a military officer and isn?t exactly ?young?. I don?t think he should be running around with a gun.

 

I enjoyed this Episode for what it is,the 2nd of a 3 part story arc.
RIP Echo.I know a lot of people are saying it wasn't like Echo to do what he did,but I disagree.The facts are we got to know one group out of 1000's,these are soldiers trained to fight and die and Echo did his duty and died doing just that.
I know every single clone trooper has a story like Echos,but we just won't see it.

 

Why not. I'm sure Patton would have been running around with a gun giving orders. He would have probably tried to take over the whole Citadel.

However, I do remember Tarkin saying in the last episode that they should all have stayed together, but the Jedi said they should split up. To me that made no sense story wise, except to split the characters up, just to split the characters up. So maybe Tarkin has some tactics in his head, but the show portrays him as a tag-along. If the Jedi weren't there, he seems like he would be lost on what to do.

 

From the preview of part 3, I see they're still using "Secrets Revealed" in the Lola Sayu arc.

Secrets such as what type of move Even Piell might use to take down a probe droid.

So just as we saw when the same tagline was used in Season 2, "Secrets Revealed" really just means "new episode".

 

This second episode is not that great, but slightly better then the first one. Bad death for the clone, and yeah, whats with the easy getting caught.

 

Watched it again...

I like the Warden, I just do, even though he doesn't taste like apples.

I think it's pretty clear Ahsoka was lying. If she isn't smacked down hard by the end of this, all I can do is shake my head.

The "trap" Obi-Wan and Co were caught in was just poorly executed.

Again, loved the clone taking one to the face point blank. I loved that Piell didn't back down, either. Glad they went there. Warden should have kept going, though. He had them in a tough spot and then he pulls a Bond villain move, sending TWO, just two, B1 battle droids to escort the prisoners to interrogation. They didn't even have the rear covered. Seriously, the clones in the back could have just walked off. Why not just ask Obi-Wan and Piell to promise to report to interrogation?

Ahsoka monkeying around when all she had to do was climb the ladder.

I liked the bit between Anakin and Tarkin about Jedi methods.

Apparently Ahsoka didn't see the two B2 battle droids until they were standing right next to her.

Again, Echo's death was just stupid. Why not try to snipe the droid? He couldn't cover the entire shuttle with his body anyway. Stupid clones deserve to die so I guess I'm glad he's dead. Too bad, he was probably my favorite clone of Domino squad, although that's not saying much. I liked that he was by the book, always quoting regulations. Too bad he didn't die that way.

I liked Anakin's portrayal in this episode. His dialogue was solid, they kept the lame one-liners to a minimum. His display of badassery was well done.

They have strongly emphasized the difficulty of this mission, which further reinforces the idea that Anakin was right and Ahsoka shouldn't have come.

I hope the next episode features a nice space battle. There's a fairly large blockade in orbit and it should take some heavy reinforcements to punch through it. I hope it's not destroyed too easily.

 

Agreed!

 

I guess it depends on the situation. He has doubts about the Jedi?s ability to escape, he isn?t allowed to run the operation as he likes, and he isn?t confident in the Jedi?s methods. As such he seems to have ?gone into his shell? and is insistent on being arrogant and pointing out the flaws in the Jedi?s plans... As for why he hasn?t picked up a gun... well, admittedly, his character differs from Patton?s somewhat...

It made perfect sense so that the information both Tarkin and Piell were ?carrying? couldn?t be ?captured? in one move. It is more difficult to capture two halves of the information than to have it all in one place at one time.

Simply put the reason he was a ?tag-along? was because this wasn?t his plan. He wanted to use different tactics, and because he can?t, he?s allowing the Jedi to do it their way. He is also of the opinion it is impossible to escape the Citadel... he obviously doesn;t know the escape routes that the Jedi have researched and studied...

...what would you have him do?