Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 320: Citadel Rescue Discussion Thread

Honestly the only problem I had with Tiin's controversial line was just that it implied there had been no big space battles in a long time, which implies he has NOT been paying attention in this war . Other than the space battle was pretty good.

 

Again, Tiin said "no battles like THESE", not "this", meaning that there haven't been battles such as those of the Clone Wars since the Old(er) Republic.

 

Many have mentioned love for Artoo's squad of battle droids, so I won't repeat them.

Instead, time for another pointless observation!

When Anakin volunteers to meet the Anoobas and Obi-Wan clears his throat, I thought "well, Obi-Wan doesn't need to do that, does he?"

Then it hit me.

He's jealous of the growing bromance between Anakin and Tarkin!

...

 

I knew many of you would hate this episode just because Even Piell died. Just deal with it. This episode was the best of the trilogy and best of season 3. Loved the space battle, loved the action, Piell's death was well done, and hearing the Imperial March at the end when Anakin and Tarkin shook hands was epic. Finally got to hear Saesee Tiin's voice, didn't expect it to be Dee Bradley Baker though.

This arc was arguably the best of season 3, just pure Star Wars.

 

A rather simple point of view.

Obi Wan has finally come to the realisation that he is happiest with Anakin. Reminds me of Zapp Brannigan in that episode of Futurama:

Obi Wan(Zapp) to Anakin(Lemon) and Tarkin(Fry): The two of you are...good friends? But I thought WE'D be...good friends.

Speaking of which, I need to ask DanGrievous to to an Anakin/Tarkin parody of the Guy Love song.

 

Wait, so Even Piell really dies in this episode? Bummer. I don't mind minor canon problems, but something this huge... just sucks, and shows a lack of caring. And while some choose to believe it, I personally and respectfully find the "Lucas's work is the only true canon" to be 100% crap. The EU actually really does have some great stories, some just as good, and many better written, than the Original Trilogy. Ugh... first groan worthy clone wars episode in awhile for me. I'll have to see it, though.

Honestly, I think for something like this it's good to have restrictions. Pretty much all canon "mistakes" in TCW I can chalk up to honest mistakes, but I really dislike the notion of stomping on other works, especially since the work they stomped on is, in my humble opinion, better than any individual TCW episode or arc.

Oh well. It's a great arc, very classic Star Wars. However, while I won't lose sleep over it, the death really seems like a kick in the groin. Eh, maybe the canon guys will pull something like the whole Dodonna surviving thing (he died in Classic Star Wars, but showed up in Dark Empire... simple solution? He was captured! Yay!)

 

You won't be saying that once you've seen the episode mate...you can't come back from deaths like that.

 

Ah, the old bait and switch. He's not really dead!

Bring back Maul! Bring back Mace! Bring back Coleman Trebor! Bring back Jango Fett!


Interesting point on Piell's asking Ahsoka to give the info to the Jedi Council; I can see your interpretation, but it's also possible that because it's so vital and the Jedi Council are the war leaders, it should directly to them.

 

So in other words, they didn't hit the groin by accident, they were consciously aiming for it? Interesting

I don't see why they couldn't have just killed off some other background council member... hell, even if they appeared in Episode 3 in a non-speaking role. That's much easier to retcon than something like this. Maybe... he was a force doppelganger or something (anyone played the Dark Forces games? XD)

I have been very vocal about my appreciation for the show lately, though. I think they've been on a role in terms of episode quality, but I probably won't be able to watch this arc anymore without imagining the creators with a big, evil grin on their face. Who knew something this small could be so annoying?

 

Out of interest, is it possible that both Jedi Twilight and Season 3 were being written at the same/similar times? Not trying to make excuse for them or anything.

 

I can't say... I don't think so, since Twilight came out awhile ago, but maybe? I don't know.

Either way, let's say this never gets explained. It will be annoying, for sure, since I like to think of SW as one super-long series. But it won't ruin either Twilight or this (really good, from the first two episodes) arc. They'll both be good on their own, and while I'll probably enjoy each a little less, there's no sense letting a, for all intents and purposes, background characters death ruin two really cool works.

And, this is Star Wars. There are always, always super-convenient-near implausible-totally illogical retcons to be had. And they usually work, too. Maybe Piell put an uber force shield around himself? Maybe it was all a figment of Ahsoka's drug-induced imagination (Anakin wouldn't mind)? Maybe a war story Tarkin likes to tell his children so they don't think his daddy is worse than the bogeyman? Or possibly even one of Obi-Wan's senile recollections of his adventures. Must get boring in Tatooine, after all, and even jedi don't have perfect memory.

 

well it is still bit funny to say it now when war has raged more than a year but perhaps that operation reminded him of some specific happening in history of the Old Republic he have read about or something..... people really should not think this too much.... Saesee apparently chose his words pretty badly

Luke:" R2 you fought in the Clone Wars too?"
R2: "Beep boob Beep peep!"
Luke: "You commanded squad of battledroids to help Obi-Wan and my father?!- (sarcastically) sure, sure i believe you..... "
R2: "(disappointed)Boop! "

 

Well this is the first time we actually see him in battle for TWC so maybe he's been sat around doing nothing in the Jedi Temple for the past year or however long it's been Was he at Geonosis in AOTC? Maybe he's just been super out-of-it for a long time (probably working on upgrading his ship lol)

 

He is in arena fight I'm pretty sure- as one of background jedi

 

Yep I just checked it on Wookieepedia.

 

I believe it was nearly the same time, more or less. Leland Chee (the OS's continuity guru) mentioned in his blog that they were able to curb the damage in the EU somewhat because they had been warned of TCW's plan to kill Piell immediately after Jedi Twilight was released, and so they made a move to keep any and all mention of Piell's Coruscant Nights' version of the event out of subsequent EU books/reference guides/etc.


EDIT: Also, a comment on Saesee Tiin's poor word choice: He's obviously so psyched for the upcoming Old Republic MMO that it's the only thing on his mind.

 

As opposed to just...changing the script. "Oh but that would have been too much work" they cry.

Yeah was just wondering, seeing as Jedi Twilight came out in summer '08, and for some odd reason I am interested in when these TCW episodes were actually made and how long they've been sat on someone's hard drive for.

 

It's things like that that would make me interested in a "Making of..."-style book for TCW, once the show is over. Little facts like why they came up with certain plots, or how long they had an idea and how ideas changed, or the order they made the episodes in or chose to air them.

 

That seems like a somewhat inefficient and even a bit lazy solution. I prefer the implausible retcon

Watching the episode now. Enjoying it so far, I'll make random notes as I watch.

-I have to say, the image of Tarkin literally riding Anakin like a horse is pretty funny. A lot like in A New Hope, isn't it? XD

-I really like this Phindian commander. I recently read the first few Jedi Apprentice books, which is where they originated, so I have an easier time picturing those guys. He is completely crazy.

-These "anooba" are pretty cool. Apparently they appeared in Tatooine Ghost, but I don't remember it.

-Seems like Tarkin and Anakin are already competing for Palpatine's notice

-Oh wow, the "choreography" (I'm not sure if there is literal choreography in animation) is phenomenal here. Anakin is powerul, Obi-Wan is graceful, Piell is jumping like Yoda, and Ahsoka is using her dual lightsabers to cool effect. The clones have been pretty good so far as well, and it's somewhat eerie to see someone sacrifice his life for Tarkins.

-Piell telling Ahsoka she's now the most important part of the mission. I have no problem with Ahsoka, and actually do feel she's progressed a bit, but I can see many rolling their eyes at this.

-Of course, Piell's death... it was well handled, but I just can't enjoy the scene like I normally would be able to. Had they not thrown him into the lava, it could easily be said that he was in a force hibernation or fake death state... maybe his species skin is just super flame retardant? XD. At one point, Luke is able to save himself from near certain death (being crushed to death by a Nightsister with the power of most Sith Lords) and recover within an hour, so maybe Piell is able to have a "one with the force" moment too.

-I've got no problem whatsoever with the Old Republic line. Could easily just be peptalk, not something meant to be taken 100% at face value. As for even calling it the "Old" Republic, I imagine that's what they called the time of Revan and Bane, and later that term was applied to everything before Order 66.

-Yay, space battle.

-I like Tarkins comment; "You trainer her well". I take that as her mercilessly killing him.

Best episode of the trilogy, if not for that stupid canon mixup. I can't get over how horribly disrespectful that is. Besides, I think limitations can often improve creative thinking; the writers have apparently realized that they can step over anything that isn't the movies (mostly the prequels, and honestly, a great deal of the EU I find far more compelling than Episode 1 and 2), things could get ugly. I don't believe Piell's death was any more dignified here than it was in Twilight... he just had a makeshift funeral and sad music. I personally find the way the episode guide matter-of-factly states that "this is his true fate" rather pretentious.

 

Well technically the Jedi Council serve as war leaders on behalf of Palpatine, and under the rule of Palpatine (the Jedi would say: the Senate), so it's sort-off strange they don't share the info.

 

Well expect more canon screw ups becuase the head writer is not a EU fan, and GL will tell a story even if it overwrites something else. He said before and he'll say it again. He will not hestiate to tell a story. The books and comics are something else. Funny, this trilogy kinda grew on me a bit. I've watched the last episode 4 times. Guess I have to take back my earlier comment that this one sucked and revise my score. As a whole, the three together are a 9.25. Of course not a 10 beucase of the death of EP, but nevertheless when you look at all three there in order there pretty damn good.

 

You are right about that. I was just at Barnes and Nobles and saw the "Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia" on the back of the box I saw them showing a lot of the EU and saying how it is a part of Star Wars saga. Maybe it hasn't been GL but his company that has been leading us down a false road.

 

Yeah, it's absolutely no secret that Lucas contradicts himself and seems to have no problem doing it. I've already said I hate the "Lucas canon" idea, because the films on their own, to me, are just very entertaining films. When I view the series as one truly epic sci-fi/fantasy series, that's when I begin to care. For example, with what we're given of Qui-Gon in "Lucas canon", he's a nice character, but one that's not well established. Adding everything in there, though, makes the story itself, the one continuing story, so much richer. Same for Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Grievous, etc. In the movies, they're just token sinister looking villains, but are at some level brought to life in the EU.

I don't think Lucas has "lost touch" with the series he created like others say; the Mortis trilogy was very good, and it was mostly him. I think a lot of it has to do with money, and in a sense, milking the franchise for all it's worth. The Star Wars EU, no one can deny, has both eyes set firmly on cash. That's why it's so surprising that there's some genuinely well written fiction in the series, which is why it's annoying, to say the least, when he steps over it when it suits his storytelling purposes and endorses it when he knows it can make him a mountain of cash.

That's okay, though. People who really enjoy the SW "series" (as I prefer to think of it) will like it enough to look past these inconsistencies. To me, the "Lucas canon" is just a four really good movies and two fairly average movies. Episode 2, on its own, is a badly written sci-fi. With the EU, it's a huge, huge climax and beginning. When Lucas says that he would have "done things differently", than I just think "of course". Different authors, different perspectives, and in true SW fashion, different points of view. I'm sure Michael Reaves isn't the type of guy do something like Karen Traviss did and just not write SW again, but that would be tragic, considering I'd much rather never see another episode of TCW than never have Reaves write another book.

 

Jedi Twilight was written years before Season 3 was. The book was completed early and held back for a long while, actually being re-edited before its release iirc.

 

It's possible some Jedi think the current Republic wouldn't be the same after the war, and so therefore assume the now Old Republic will be enforced under new governmental laws which would make it the New Republic.

Well, it's obvious that (Obi-Wan had also suspected of Palpatine's personal motives way before AOTC) that the Jedi Council don't trust the Chancellor at this point in the saga.