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Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 321: Padawan Lost Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Barriss_Coffee, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Firstly I don?t understand the hostility about Plo being a key role in Ahsoka?s story. It is certainly true that he was used in that role because he is Filoni?s favourite character, however it was never the less a role in Ahsoka?s story which needed to be filled. If it wasn?t Plo it would have been another character, and that would have led to that character taking the place of where Plo is now. If it was Ki-Adi then everyone would be complaining Ki-Adi appears to much. He fills an important role in Ahsoka?s story and I don?t understand why people are complaining when he fills that role in the series.

    Furthermore his appearance in Padawan Lost was the most logical choice of character. Like I have said he was placed in contrast to Anakin?s inabilities and his attachment to Ahsoka. Plo, unlike any other Jedi (apart from Anakin), is a key part of Ahsoka?s life and as such he is the only Jedi who was able to demonstrate Anakin?s attachment and what a Jedi should idealistically do in Anakin?s situation. It would have been a waste to use Ki-Adi or Eeth Koth... no representative contrast would have been given...

    This is how stories are told with multiple layers.
     
  2. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    I don't have any problem with Plo being in a key role in Ahsoka's story i just wanted to say Filoni's opinions are reason for his appearances anyway- fact i think you tried to deny..... anyway i still say nothing Padawan Lost's Felucia battle needed just Plo- once again Filoni just said there is place to stuff Plo in :p

    It's not like jedi on Felucia needed to have special relationship with Ahsoka- any jedi could've said the same to Anakin and work as contrast to Anakin's attachment to Ahsoka- in fact Plo was very poor choice since that guy has own attachmentissue towards the very same padawan....

    in Citadel Plo was more understandable due to Ahsoka disobeying orders- but in PL there was no need for Plo and yet they added him once again..... All this Ploness would be more easy to accept if trailer of season4 wouldn't start with Plo Koon in action scene:p
     
  3. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Another Jedi would have made even less sense. Another Jedi would have no previous ?attachment? to Ahsoka and as such would not be a contrast to Anakin. Plo equally cares for Ahsoka and as such his actions are the only ones which can contrast Anakin?s accurately. You are not going to get a representation and contrast of a Jedi who cares for Ahsoka and is willing to do a Jedi thing when she disappears (Plo) and a Jedi who is attached to Ahsoka and is willing to do un-Jedi things when she disappears (Anakin); a Jedi who cares and does the Jedi thing and a Jedi who cares and does the un-Jedi thing. They contrast these to show Anakin?s inabilities. Another Jedi wouldn?t have represented this. There is absolute purpose in having Plo on Felucia.

    I think you know this...
     
  4. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Jesus Christ you guys are arguing way too much. It's only 11am and you're already declaring nuclear war on each other!
     
  5. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Neither of us live in the United States... and we are discussing topics which we obviously disagree on. Furthermore we are the only two on at this time typically... which obviously means that there aren?t others to contribute to a discussion...

    Tell me, how many nuclear bombs have you dropped? I can think of a few instances where I saw you within a discussion with another person...

    ;)
     
  6. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Neither does Tom live in U.S. (Notafanboy) but UK- here clock is 2 hours ahead Greenwhich main time- when there is 11AM here is 13 AM and in Australia woah is there soon evening already?

    I don't think there was any clear contrast even needed- Plo didn't serve his purpose on Felucia- he just was more hypocrite than ever now suddenly acting like a jedi should- while he in previous episode covered Ahsoka's lies very unjedilike behaviour- i was majorly disappointed to him in Citadel Rescue's end i was expecting he would give some lecture to Ahsoka- no way it was ok she disobeyed orders- Plo really makes her to do that by rewarding bad behaviour....

    In Padawan Lost Plo says "We have to go" while Anakin would like to continue looking for Soka..... anyone could have said that..... there was no need for any special contrast- did you notice i was talking only about Felucia scene- later the scene where Anakin thinks he goes to find her Plo could've been there- it makes sense he would be more interested in Ahsoka's disappearance than others- but he was in both places- in battle and there advicing Anakin- clear overuse of Plo IMO......
    besides it was funny how he is not important at all in Wookiee Hunt- only one line- suddenly Ahsoka is not so special to him anymore as she was in Citadel Rescue where she received special treatment- or is it so that Plo encourages all padawans to lie and disobey orders- great jedi master he is then:p .....
     
  7. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Yeah but I keep it to one topic at a time. What can I say, I'm a very angry person. I am aware that none of us are American. And finally, I am also on every morning at the same times as you guys, but unless I already have loads of caffeine in me I usually don't care enough for petty disagreements to step in and voice my opinions.

    You seem stressed Phil. Here...
    [image=http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k546/ImNotAStarWarsFanboy/Haveabreak-HaveaKitKatsmall.jpg]
    [face_peace]
     
  8. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    My mistake.

    We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree on the matter, because I think Plo served a purpose no other Jedi could have filled. He demonstrated, while he cared about Ahsoka, he was seemingly disaffected from Ahsoka being missing. Something placed in contrast to Anakin and a contrast only possible by another Jedi close to Ahsoka (Plo being the only established one). He served for that little bit of extra characterisation and contrast to Anakin... his appearance was far from meaningless nor could another Jedi have filled the role in the same way.


    STUFF YOU IMNOTASTARWARSFAN
    I?VE ONLY GOT A CHERRYRIPE AT THE MOMENT SO THAT IS WHAT I?M GOING TO EAT
    STICK YOUR KIT-KAT UP YOUR ***
    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:













    ;) Just Joking
     
  9. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    How much they pay you from advertising?:p

    And Plo being disaffected by Ahsoka's loss was very odd really- he is ready to defend her when she disobeys everyone but when she is missing "I don't care" suddenly he is reasonable but also cold and calculating person really..... i understand the contrast with Anakin in the end- where Plo actually says he trusts Ahsoka can survive and it's true they don't have resources to look for her- he is simply realistic unlike Anakin who blames himself and prepares to do stupid things to look for Ahsoka who can be anywhere..... but still it was thanks to Ahsoka and Anakin and their unjedilike behaviour that Plo even is alive at the time- they should've let him to die in Rising Malevolence- that's what Plo would've done obviously since it was not their orders to look for survivors back then...... jedi are portrayed very contradictingly in TCW- and many times they are extremely hypocrite in my eyes Plo being worse all the time- he really was horrible in Citadel Rescue- apparently Ahsoka's problems are not all from Anakin......

    TCW should sometimes portray how jedi's way of act is not always clearly 100 percent good- moral conflicts are not always so easy to solve- attachments can be problem- like Anakin killing entire tusken tribe to revenge death of his mother- but it's not always so damn simple what hero should do- neither are attachments 100 percent evil- that's very unnatural point of view really.....
     
  10. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Not nearly enough.

    Unless you count boxes of Japanese KitKats as payment, in which case too much.
    [image=http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k546/ImNotAStarWarsFanboy/japan-kit-kats.jpg]
     
  11. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2008
    I once saw a Kitkat commercial where there's this character in a karaoke machine. After a bout of singing, she joins the customers in a Kitkat bar. So, yeah, that adds nothing. I only agree that there's not much worth getting steamed up over, at least not with one another. :p

    My conclusions on Plo, personally (meaning, they are certainly not fact :p) is that he's had his ups and his downs, they seem to be building him up as a prominent supporting guy (he's mostly in the background, not taking the leading role), I've mostly enjoyed where they're taking him, and yes, he is the new Ki-Adi in terms of hogging the limelight from the other Jedi. So while I'd be happy to see him, I'll be even happier if the other cast members get a chance to catch up. [face_laugh]
     
  12. Humble_Jedi

    Humble_Jedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Plo's the one who factors most into Ahsoka's plot-line after Anakin. Deal with it. :p

    If Ki-Adi would be the one with ties to Ahsoka, people would be going: Why not Plo? Why not Saesee Tiin? Etc. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    It's kinda fair though since Plo was so random background jedi in movies he has no lines and was hardly seen- even in old CW he was hardly seen at all- not at all in the action like Ki-Adi, Mace, Shaak Ti, Luminara etc. so yeah it was Plo's time in TCW- i was happy to see him first as one of the main jedi there but well too much is too much- however i think Plo in trailer don't mean massive number of Plo-episodes so no big problem:p .....

    i just think Plo was not necessary in Padawan Lost but ok since he was still as supporting character in Ahsoka-centered story we can say it was somehow in line with his role as Ahsoka's mentor......

    Actually would be interesting to see Ahsokaless Plo-episode so we would learn more about Plo himself- right now i'm not sure what to think about him really he seems to be very contradicting character....
     
  14. jedi-soon

    jedi-soon Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2001
    Wow. Star Wars was such a huge success precisely because it followed the classic journey paradigm right down to a "T", or so said Joseph Campbell. It was easy to relate to because we'd seen it all before!
     
  15. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    I don't see any inconsistency with Plo Koon's actions.
    1. In Citadel Rescue, he's "covering" for Ahsoka as he believes it was the Will of the Force that she be included in the mission. That's consistent with a Jedi's belief that everything is subject to the Will of the Force.
    2. In Padawan Lost, he's placing his duty as a Jedi above personal attachment (assuming he has any personal attachment to her). It is Anakin who's subject to his personal attachments.

    (Swashbucklingjedi - I notice by your icon that there is still good in you. This forum hasn't driven it from you fully.)
     
  16. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    that will of the force is fanmade theory to explain the clear contradiction- nothing in episodes tell he thought so- whatever i hope Plo will receive some more characterisation in his next appearance- he is in fact becoming interesting- i'm tired of Plo as background character but then again would be nice to see him alone for once- with no Anakin or even Ahsoka.....
    btw isn't it great irony how according to EU- Plo was trained by wookiee master and he trained trandoshan padawan himself[face_laugh] he is man with contradictions really:p

    I don't really buy all this "attachment" stuff- it's clear Anakin goes too far but it's not so simple- avoiding attachments altogether is simply unnatural- it's more like controlling them than avoiding them that should be done... I dunno I guess i'm a rebel jedi:p



     
  17. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Are you saying that Plo Koon cannot be friends (or allies) with both?
     
  18. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Of course not who knows how many direct wookiee-trando-friendship or interspecies relationship there is- but it's still interesting -because those two are usually considered worst enemies- trandos are portrayed extremely violent in TCW as well- would be interesting to see what kind of person trandojedi is- i guess he/she is not proud of his/hers species' culture
    actually could be that Plo became interested in trandos just because Tyvokka told about his species and their hostility with them- causing Plo to take a risk by trying to train a trando to jedi knight......
     
  19. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    It was clearly implied when paired with Even Piell?s actions. Plo?s words aren?t saying to Obi-Wan ?yes, I sent her on the mission? but it was rather ?the advice I gave her obviously sent her on this mission as it was the Will of the Force?. Remember he said that he guesses he sent her on the mission ? Obi-Wan and Anakin know what he means.


    No, that would defeat the purpose of the entire Saga I ? II ? TCW ? III ? IV ? V ? VI. There is a difference between attachment and caring for someone. Attachment is the inability to let someone or something go... an attribute which is a flaw to anyone. You can care and love (as Anakin states) however you must not let this develop into an attachment. Obi-Wan cares and loves Anakin as a brother... however he is not attached. Obi-Wan is an example of how someone leads a healthy life. You can care and love someone or something however you must be ready to one day let that person or thing go... otherwise you will go down the dark path.

    The reason marriage is forbidden is not because the Jedi are against the concept but rather because of how dangerous it could be for a Jedi. Humans can easily be corrupted into attachment. This is why fear is central to everything. Fear is what ultimately leads to attachment... the fear of loss of that which you are attached.
     
  20. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    That's your personal interpretetion remember that- for some reason i see your most comments somewhat supercilious- it's like I or someone else states something and you come and say "you got it wrong- I will tell you the truth- I know the truth- you don't!"
    I think that's not your meaning but it really feels like that....you don't seem to give any space for other interpretetions than your own....


    Maybe GL's own vision is similar to yours too- i agree about most of the points- but i would say Obi-Wan was attached to Anakin- but he was able to control that attachment- that of course depends on our definition of 'attachment'- you seem to define it differently- what i call "controlled attachment" you call "caring for someone" but i dunno could be cultural confusion also but does attachment have negative connotation then? If so it's the word our language don't have so let's call it love- is it too syrupy or too strong or something? Anyway i cannot see clear border there between dangerous attachment and love- thing Padmé and Anakin discussed in AOTC- Padmé was under impression jedi are not allowed to love- Anakin defined love differently.....

    I think SW is good story just because it's open for different interpretetions i don't see Anakin's attachment as only reason to his fall it was pathway to his fall but reasons were not so simple- like the Force -love has two sides (compassion and fear of loss) light and dark and it's all about finding the balance- if jedi avoid attachment because it has dark side- would be also better to avoid the Force altogether since it's similarly two-sided thing.....
    Also it looks like to me that Anakin's attachment was the thing that also saved him- if it wouldn't have been his son his and Padmé's son there i don't believe he would've killed the Emperor it just doesn't work with his character...

    If Lucas decides to define his saga too much i think i have to leave the franchose- i cannot accept his word as any word of God- SW shouldn't be religion damn it- as long as there is space for interpretetion SW is great but if Lucas decided to tell "the truth" it's unavoidably just his own vision of truth and that ruins his franchise- i like SW as fictional story with philosophical/religious meaning you can yourself figure out but if it is "Don't love be 100 percent selfless saint"- I cannot really agree with that- that's unnatural it won't fit in to my view of the universe as a whole......
     
  21. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    You?re right.
     
  22. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    [face_laugh] I write a horrible wall of text and you are just like "you're right"- hey good that you notice that too;)
    You're right......I'm right:cool:

    One problem in SW is that it is so one man's universe- while i usually like GL's ideas- sometimes i don't agree with him- still i can see possibility for interpretetion as the greatest thing in the saga- i hope GL won't comment further about decisions of characters etc. or alternate endings- it's better if they're left ambiguous- "what if" Anakin would have left the order and openly married Padmé- and so on......don't wanna know GL's vision of that for example....... still Mortis was left too ambiguos IMO and i didn't like it - it's balance which is the point in so many things both in real world and world of SW....

    I guess i'm guilty myself what comes to "agree or leave the franchise" kind of thinking :D but SW really raises up questions that are some of the hardest questions ever - which is right and which is wrong it's not so simple after all- i think SW and other fiction should raise these questions up and offer possible answers in form of humane characters and their biased opinions -but leave the truth -both IU-truth and OOU-truth- somewhat ambiguous- i don't like the idea of divine truth of good and bad being told- even IU-truth- that's not what fiction should do it's religion if we start to belive in some statement as absolute truth - fiction should offer us something to think about- and at the same time it should be also escapistic and on the other hand somehow mirroring the reality and teaching us something about the reality at same time- nah getting too hard now:p ....
     
  23. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Attachment is that that gives us our truest life. It is also that that can shatter it.
     
  24. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    poetic:p ... but also a truth i would say- it is the balance when one is not fully good but knows it, accepts it and focuses on keeping oneself in the state where he still is capable of good -where he/she is as good as possible... i like that idea better and for some reason i see that this is the point of whole saga not that Anakin was simply flawed, wrong and one to blame from everything- he was natural combination of good and bad from the beginning- just like the Force itself- but he let the dark side get the hold on him- he lost the balance he had- he struggles to keep himself in the balance but he looses the faith to his light side- he looses the trust and faith and it's replaced by fear of loss- Palpatine uses this for his advantage and jedi being somewhat extremists in their ways also really makes it easy for Anakin to turn the situation to look like different what it is.

    Luke goes down to same path but as his father as rolemodel for him he is able to control his dark side and return to balanced state- he sees what is his destiny if he continues down the same path- he will be Vader number2- at the same time Luke manages to make Anakin to return as well- but ultimately point is that Luke is much like his father but in different situation with different background and Vader didn't have such a possibility to see his own destiny- he didn't realise Dooku was not too different- when he killed Dooku he killed just "a bad guy"- if Luke would've killed Vader- he would've killed his father- someone like himself.....
    Palpatine was much like Anakin's father- but he is such a corrupted character he would probably kill his own son similarly..... not sure if real world can have such a 'perfect devil' (please no hitler there- guy was dangerous wacko but i don't buy the idea he was devil:p)

    SW is wonderful story and i wouldn't like to see it destroyed by any another Mortis-arc trying to "explain it":( .... this season3 arc was pretty much nothing though.... it didn't change my personal view at all.....

    ok off-topic :D
     
  25. Humble_Jedi

    Humble_Jedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2004
    No, he says: "It appears I did." I agree with your interpretation though, subjective as it may be.