Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 402: Gungan Attack Discussion Thread

Even Fives seemed to realize that and gave up. =P

I figured the Gungan council scene was playing on the Gungans' usual reputation for stupidity myself.

 

Their logic honestly baffles me. On the one hand, they're using one individual as the basis or template for the entire characteristics of every single member of the species. Every Gungan in TCW is a clone of Jar Jar Binks. Just like every Weequay is a pirate. Yet they make such a big thing of how different and diverse the personalities of all the Clone Troopers are. You try telling me that isn't kriffing textbook irony right there staring you in the face.

 

What reputation?

In TPM the Gungans are reasonably intelligent people, no more stupid than the Naboo humans. They're certainly smarter than TCW's Padme. Jar Jar is the only exception and he is exiled for this.

I think another commenter made the salient point that TCW sometimes seems to go out of its way to appease Prequel-bashers. Conflation of Gungans with Jar Jar Binks is part of that. The same point could be made about the conflation of Padme with Leia and the perennially moronic idea presented in S3 that the Republic Loyalists and the Separatists should actually know that they're being played like harps by the Sith.

 

No, they really are that dense. Or cocky. Nute Gunray sure likes to boast a lot, being the massive coward that he is and all.

 

It sucks they had no Tikkes (everyone knows that ) but it would've been wondeful to see how Nossor Ri who for human looks identical to Tikkes is still totally different character- so it would've been fun to have them both.... TCW needs to get rid of speciesistic/racistic stereotypes. But that scene only proved Lyonie is idiot- Jar Jar didn't say anything more stupid than he usually does, Lyonie just is not bright- I miss Nass. He had that awful manner to shake his head, but he still is better than some random "Boss Lyonie".

Nass and Tikkes are great characters that could've redeemed the arc just by appearing- i remember how happy i was to see Nass in ROTS It was awesome, but Tarkin was even better I'm sucker for extremely minor characters like background folk-that's why I am so disappointed to their background folk - there is usually no interesting random characters like there is in movies.

 

What prequel bashers Quango? TCW is aiming at a target audience that grew up with the prequels. To them the prequels are the classic movies. Many characters on screen are technically prequel characters. If anything TCW panders to old fans by throwing so many OT characters out there thinking that will shut them up. TCW really is not on the same level of complexity as TPM. This is a cartoon. To this audience the Gungans are a bunch of comical idiots. This blanket was already put over them in "Blue Shadow Virus" and even in "Children of the Force". The casual fans and kids probably laughed at that and I'll confirm that when I get the chance to show the episodes to some kids. That's why TCW thought they could get away with that bit of cheesy dialog when they didn't have time for a long debate. Really if they had though it through they would of showed the beginning of the transmission and let the rest take place off screen.

And this.

 

Perhaps "Prequel-bashers" is too strong a term. I was paraphrasing someone else, after all.

However, I think it's fair to say that TCW's writers often don't seem to get the PT. The S3 political episodes show they don't understand much about the character of Padme Amidala in the PT, or much about the Clone Wars themselves as they were portrayed in the PT.

Hence the butchery of Padme's character. Hence the wholesale transplanting of Iraq/Afghan War discourse into an inappropriate setting.

They probably don't hate the Prequels, but they certainly don't pay enough respect to the story and characters of the PT, which is a disappointment (to say the least) considering TCW's canonical status as the effective Episode 2.5.

In addition, I doubt that those who grew up with the PT are the target audience. Most of them are now older teenagers or adults.

 

"I think I'm gonna be sea sick"

 

You didn't watch them again did you? Even I haven't done that.

 

No, I just remembered the awful dialogue in these episodes.

 

Fair enough. Your comment just seemed so spontaneous and out-of-the-blue is all.

 

I don't think the writers, directors, etc research the films and characters properly myself which is a common problem with anything that gets a spin off or rebooted for cash. I also don't think they get the existing fanbase or really care. They aimed the show at casual fans and young fans which is a smart enough move, something aimed exclusively at hardcore fans usually fails. But if they were more capable of real universal writing and understood the material this show could take off the way Rugrats, Sailor Moon (DIC Dub), and even Simpsons did which are all renouned for having a narrow core of fans and very wide demographics that draw huge swaths of viewers to the entire network they are or were on. Ive had an argument before with someone off forum who believes TCW is that rare kind of show already. I beg to differ. The things that carry the show IMO are lack of competition, is usually interesting, easy on the brain fun, good original characters, experimentation, and that atleast half the episodes each season work well.

ROTS came out in 05 right? Thats like what six years go? If someone saw that movie at 7 or 8 years old (and was likely shown the first 2 prior) then they are 13 or 14 which is the upper limit of the target demo. Still prequel era teeny boppers if you ask me.

 

Anyone else think that Dooku wanting to enslave the Mon Calamari was a little to much?

As far as I know he's never enslaved any other race, Grievous has, but I don't think Dooku has.

It's just not like him too, he'd rather try and get them to join the CIS than enslave them.

 

@ Seerow

I think you've hit on something important - how good the writing of TCW is now affects how loyal the fanbase will be, which in turn predicts how fondly-remembered TCW will be in 2040. It could be cherished as a timeless classic of the 2010s. Alternatively, it could be remembered as a trashy 2000s/2010s kids' show, worthy only of retro-kitsch commemoration by the hipsters of the 2040s.

However, I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised by later episode arcs in S4. It could yet become a show with bona fide universal appeal.

They just need to start respecting what came before the show in the EU and the PT. Fans of the EU and PT may be less numerous than OT/casual fans, but they'll be spreading the word-of-mouth anyway...

Nah. Slavery is the ultimate cheap labour, which the toffs at the Techno Union and Corporate Alliance would certainly appreciate.

No doubt they tried to get rid of the Republic's anti-slavery laws before AOTC.

 

The way its going now I think in 2040 TCW will be looked back on the way I look back at Power Rangers. I'm fond of it literally because of how bad it is, easily the worst kids show that has ever existed. TCW could easily be more like Batman: The Animated Series. Fondly remembered with 90s kids and hardcore fans.

I agree that I think we've got some good stuff coming up that I think are going to be great and really raise the bar. I'm looking forward to Umbara, Deathwatch, More Nightsisters, Savage, and even the Slave Arc. I think water is part of the problem here which is very difficult to animate well. Once we get out of that it should be great. Otherwise I'm less enthusiatic about the Umbara arc if the action is this hard to follow and burns up my HDTV.

@Super_Battle_Droid
I know we aren't supposed to talk about future episodes but maybe that will tie into the upcoming slave arc.

 

He's already got the Quarens on his side. Sometimes you gotta lose some to get some.

 

I've now watched this pair of episodes 5 or 6 times, and I have to say, although I always hate this complaint because it inevitably can be made (and is) about any character in any episode regardless of context, these episodes really did not need Padme. They never even attempt to explain how or why she was chosen of all the senators to go to Mon Calamari, or how and why Anakin was chosen to go with her. Since she had such an extremely negligible role, I strongly believe they should have just sent Anakin alone. Rather than having Padme as the diplomat and Anakin as the grunt, they could have actually showed a multifaceted aspect of Anakin's personality by having him fulfill both roles. By time the fighting comes around Padme's just standing around looking dumbfounded. I really don't see what role she served that couldn't have been made up by Anakin.

Fortunately for me, when minor details in TCW bother me, I recognize them as such rather than dismissing the whole episode due to them.

 

Yeah well. These episodes just didn't feel like Star Wars to me. That, and the story wasn't really involving.

 

Padme wasn't so bad in this epiosde. She is in these episodes as a plot device so the Gungans will come help, I think. Really I think they actually should of substituted her with Obi-wan and used the Anakin/ Obi-wan dynamic duo which is better recieved than Padme anything since back in "Blue Shadow Virus" it was said he had a good relationship with the Gungans. Jar Jar would of had the same dumb exchange for him or Ani really but would they be that dense? I didn't see a need for a senator at all and the negotiator could of handled Tamson. He probably still wouldn't have done much but hey he would have been cool in one of those dive suits and would of had some better wise cracks than -- "Says the boy from the desert planet."

 

Once I found out the shark-dude's name was Riff I was really concerned that they were going to make him some lame generic supposed bad-@$$ archetype. I was VERY relieved that not only did they make him relatively mild mannered and diplomatic, but he was almost always addressed by his last name only. Way to pull that one out of the $#!++er guys.

@H_J The whole "feels like Star Wars" thing means something different to everyone so it's hard to discuss. Personally I think most TCW episodes have something of a Star Wars feel in one way or another. These episodes did it more with cinematic "camera" angles and music more than anything else. And it ends on a rather Ep. V-esque note.

 

Did you just call Tamson 'mild mannered and diplomatic'? You do realise we're talking about a guy whose battle strategy is to swim around like a madman and bite peoples' heads off? A guy who shouts down the Prince in his own Council for daring to voice his legitimacy and threatens to kill his allies for insubordination? A guy whose master plan as an ambassador is all-out war and steal the crown for himself? Shyeah, reeeeeal mild mannered.

Or are you being sarcastic?

 

The word "relatively," was in there after a description of my expectations, as if to say, compared to what I expected, he is relatively mild and diplomatic. Obviously while fighting he's not in diplomacy mode. And I wouldn't say him cutting off the Prince in the beginning of Water War is necessarily undiplomatic. Given that his goal was to get the Quarren to bail on the negotiations, I'd actually say it was a pretty shrewd diplomatic move. If he was all aggression and no diplomacy, he would have just started eating him.

So yes, I was serious, but no, you don't seem to have interpreted my post correctly.

 

Uh huh.

Well, in fairness to me I am skim-reading these posts at 1AM, I think you can cut me some slack for not being up to par right now.

 

Fair enough, you're off the hook, pal. Crom knows I've made my share of 3 AM posts here in the EST. Not that he cares.

 

After watching this episode I got depressed realizing that we're going to have another dull episode next week. Outside of the "vortex scene" I was bored to the death.