Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 404: Shadow Warrior Discussion Thread

Absolutely right - that was my first reaction on watching it, and if we hadn't been assured that everything would be in a chronological order this season, I'd just assume that it was a prequel to Water War - in which context it works brilliantly: it'd explain why there's no Tarpals in Gungan Attack, the reason for the Ani'n'Padme traveling diplomatic roadshow, the trust Leonie has in Jar Jar, the Gungan's (even greater) willingness to help Padme etc. In fact, I think I'll just switch them around in my head... ahhhh, that's better.

 

Gungans attacking Naboo is a great idea (especially great for explaining humancentrism of Empire- almost all non-humans are about to join CIS at some point) but this execution was the worst possible since only one gungan and Lyonie wanted attack- I would've liked some actual racial hatred- Gungans wanting Naboo dead and Panaka's man ready to slay some gungans -

But really it is not something that is believable at this point when gungans even went to Dac to fight for the republic and Padmé.... how can anyone- even Boss- now rally gungans to such a crazy and irrational attack if they have no reason to fight against Naboo......

 

I agree that this episode would have done better had it aired before the Water War arc or even a while after it so it wasn't so fresh in the mind. I kinda wonder if we are getting snowed about the episodes being in chronological order since the Water War arc episodes have season 3 production numbers. If there are episodes that are going to get carried over to the next season every year then there are always going to be episodes that seem out of order. Or maybe that's just me over thinking or misunderstanding things.

Hmm, when do we get the episode thread for "Mercy Mission"? No rush but the episode guide for that one is up and I for one am ready move on from this one to hopefully greener pastures.

 

True on all accounts, unfortunately. But I'd like to re-emphasis another major problem with the show: it's score. Kiner's scores usually consist only of bland scene change cues and filler in the middle buried under the unnecessary excessive expository dialogue. It just doesn't do Star Wars justice. They should hire Joel McNeely/ Walter Murphy, both able to perfectly recreate the aura of John Williams' music and both work in television. Lenny Bruce or, since Shirley Walker is no longer with us, one of the other fellow composers for Batman: The Animated Series, an animated show that defined the what animated shows are capable of achieving. The scripts, the characters, the dialogue, the action and the score. That's how The Clone Wars should be like.

Oh, and since this is a Star Wars board:

 

Wow. I never stated it as a fact; I stated it as a question because I really did think it was typo. Either way, saying that would be like saying you could engage three people in horse-comeback without breaking sweat.

But fine. I get it. After seeing the fight a third time, I agree that Grievous was underpowered.

 

Maybe it's because all of the Republic friendly Gungans went off and were slaughtered on Dac.

 

Heh... that's certainly one explanation.


Also, did anyone get the feeling we were dealing with a whole different troop of Gungans than the Otah Gunga/TPM ones? I only saw the episode once, so I can't remember if Jar Jar or Padme specifically said, "We're going to Otah Gunga." Everything just seemed different somehow.

I guess if Tarples was there, it had to be Otah Gunga. There was just something fishy about it. And I'm not talking about the Mon Calamari.

 

That's the thing we are not just talking about someone; This is AMIDALA. The woman who refused to betray the republic even though it would have saved the life of the man she already loved, his mentor who she had intended to rescue and hers in AOTC; the woman who at large stood her ground despite her personal agenda which eventually lead to her death. Padmè as shown in movies would not have surrender GG for Anakin like that...I dare say she would offered herself in exchange for Anakin which would create a whole set problems but at least it not only seem more logical in her position, it would show actual flaws and be a correction of her character on sooo many levels... the fact that TCW insists on making a blank cardboard out of her annoys me to end as fan of hers.

I know! I once said that good FF writers could do a better job and after this episode, I strongly stand by it...sad really. I'm sorry but I cannot longer consider TCW & its nonsense Cannon; the fact that George/Dave say it is seems just laughable me more than ever.

 

Well I think that we can safely throw Shadow Warrior away from our personal canons without probs since it has no significance in the larger canon- Death of Tarpals is not that big thing- he was so old anyway another things were returned to be like they were- no one remained captured, all relations returned to normal, Rish Loo killed like he would've never existed and naboo and gungans are friends again (how quickly they change sides is really remarkable- enemy-friend-enemy-friend.....) so nothing in larger continuity even needs this episode.....

If Grievous returns to Naboo "to have his revenge" then this explains something.... If he doesn't then this episode is not even canon to me... I liked Rish Loo though, but if this episode is not canon then he is still alive ....

Political prequel to explain this gungan-naboo conflict could save this episode and Grievous needs training from Dooku after such embarassment.... as bizarre stand-alone this is random stupidity and hard to see it as working part of continuity of any kind....

 

1. Why was this episode titled "Shadow Warrior"? Who was it even referring to? It can't be Grievous because he was an absolute embarrassment and I doubt it could be Dooku since he wasn't really the primary focus of this episode and didn't show up in person until the end. Do the writer's even pay attention to naming the episodes anymore or did they just choose this one because it sounded cool?

2. How the hell do Separatist cruisers land on a Republic controlled planet with nobody even noticing? It's not the TPM days when Naboo had no army or defenses -- they are in the middle of a galactic war! Not to mention that Naboo has already faced Separatist threats numerous times already.

Overall I was very disappointed with this episode. And the Gungans were the least of my problems with it...

 

Because this is based on Akira Kurosawa's film Kagemusha that means Shadow Warrior- so they just stole the name and forget it makes no sense in this context

 

lol pretty much

 

I don't know should i laugh or cry to TCW season4- It has been extremely poor start to this season....

I did find it funny that no one wondered Dooku on Naboo? Maybe next time we learn that there is third secret lab under Padmé's bedroom in Varykino- someone should be done to these secret labs that seem to be very usual on Naboo....

"Hey secret separatist lab...again!"

 

Well it is the home planet of the Dark Lord of the Sith, so it's pretty much Secret-Lairs-R-Us.

 

Now THAT would have been neat

 

That's the best way to go about it! I already did some tweaks of my own

You know, for sec I thought I was being mocked for some reason...I'm glad you agree.

 

I don't know, it'd probably end up as some hideous Return of the Jedi homage with Padme starring as her daughter, if y'all're catchin' ma drift.

TCW Padme in a Leia slave bikini

Now that would work great in a live action version of TCW with Natalie Portman still being Padme, but for a CGI animated show...nah. Tentacle Monsters would most likely show up in some grotesque way too, seeing how George Lucas is all about the Japanese anime.

 

*shudders at the idea of more horrific parallels*

Nah, Nat would of never made it into the suit...Dooku is too classy for that.

 

Don't give them any ideas

 

I seriously doubt any of them with accounts here give enough of a rat's ass about their fanbase to log in again and see all this.

 

Heh... they could do a remake of 'Possession' that way

 

First time I watch it and I was disappointed. Second time though I thought it was pretty good. Sure it could have been a lot better but I can at least accept this episode.

 

The series still has to take a huge dive in quality before it can be compared to most of the crap you find in FF.net. Actually, despite the plot holes, this is still better than even the micro-series. Yes, plot is weak, but it still makes up for in creativity and non-repetitiveness.

 

Yeah but that's exactly why Palpatine shouldn't sent Dooku there, because this way Palpy may reveal himself- too risky.....

Padmé in bikini? Whatever..... not good nor bad- only irritatingly clear OT-reference if that happens- and also they better have upgraded model for that.... TCW-Padmé is now better though- look at her face she is much better than her original model was- same with Dooku in fact- he is still ridiculously stylised but i'm used to his sharp face nowadays....

This episode is good background for actual Naboo-arc they should make- one huge battle with Grievous and Gunray teaming up and having their revenge- of course they couldn't hold planet for long but at least they could torture and kill Boss Lyonie - failure would also explain their bad relations in ROTS- Gunray has no faith in GG's abilities (who has after seeing this episode? )

Now Grievous has a reason to return to Naboo and they have models for Gungan Grand Army as well...

 

Ah, but Dooku more-or-less implies to Anakin that he was the Sith on Naboo during the first invasion, effectively redirecting any connections between Sidious and Naboo that may have been made... Now obviously this makes no sense timeline-wise, but it is in line with his chat with Obi-Wan in AotC, where he sows all sorts of confusion with his 'the Viceroy was betrayed by the Dark Lord', 'I wish Qui-Gon were here, I could use his help', 'thousands of senators are under the control of a Sith Lord', 'join me and together we will destroy the Sith' speech. This is more of the same - truths wrapped in lies are the worst kind of deception.