Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 408: The General -- Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Barriss_Coffee, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Doesn't change the fact that sergeant is a non-comm rank. The Appo thing is idiotic but like I decided at the start of S4, I'm just not worrying about TCW's continuity idiocies anymore.
  2. General_Un-Co Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2010
    star 1
    Sorry If I'm missing something here but why does a clone being green make them a commissioned officer?

    I have never seen them refereed to as Rocket launchers before, do you have any sources? All games to my knowledge (Battlefront, Episode 1 game, Jedi Knight) use Missile launcher or torpedo launcher. Actually according to the Wook Galaxies uses the term Rocket Launcher.
  3. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    Attack of the Clones Pilot during the chase against Dooku. "we're out of rockets sir!"
  4. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I forgot mention this earlier, but I'm not gonna be able to watch these episodes again without that in my mind. [face_plain]
  5. Fistofan55 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2009
    star 3
    Any clone with stripes in AOTC was considered a commissioned officer. Wookiepedia emphasizes this and all of Hasbro's AOTC clone figures with stripes are called "Clone Tooper officer".

    When it comes to clones and their weapons, I've received the names from Hasbro figures. Just about every "missile launcher" or "torpedo launcher" was called a "rocket launcher". I believe I've read that that is what they are called in sourcebooks for TCW as well but I will need to check on that.....
  6. Darth_Gamek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2009
    star 6
    I thought Battlefront referred to it as a rocket launcher? :confused:
  7. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    Damn gonna have to watch it again later, keep getting interruptions of some sort. A testament to how good these episodes are I watched them back to back and everyone who came in to interrupt me ended up sitting down and watching which kinda sucked because they asked me loads of questions about what was going on. Ended up loaning my blu-rays out. -.-;
  8. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Well maybe we see explanation to this- SW-version of Manchurian Candidate or something.... I had problem with this clone-issue when season1 aired but no more since they have to deal with order66-training somehow- clones are no more "droids with a skin" so they cannot be those in ROTS anymore either- order66 is magic word but brainwashing process need to be explained better now.....
  9. Tordelback Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 2
    There's a certain futility in applying 21st Century western military rank structure and progression to the GAR, which has been in existence for maybe 2 years, is made-up of 9-12 year old GE clones of a bounty hunter, led by generals drawn from a caste of magical warrior-monks, under the direction of an executive made up in part of elected Queens and corporations who supply the enemy. It didn't work that way in Star Trek, why would it work in the much more fantastical milieu of Star Wars?
  10. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I'm no trekkie, but TNG at least was pretty much exactly the same as US Naval ranking.

    Ensign < Lieutenant < Lieutenant Commander < Commander < Captain < Admiral
  11. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    There is nothing IU-logical in clone-ranks so OOU-logic is too far away even to think about:p Appo probably did something very heroic then...

    what was more odd was that tanks were also filled with it, but still tankpilots used closed helmets[face_thinking] where is the sense in using closed helmet in already closed space?

    odd was that tanks were also filled with it, but still tankpilots used closed helmets[face_thinking] where is the sense in using closed helmet in already closed space?

    So we can always blame superiorso_O - Kenobi was as well following orders- probably Yoda's or Windu's and ultimately Palpy's(who is quilty to entire conflict)- besides he had no idea what Krell is doing- he puts the pressure to Krell but that doesn't justify anything- odd logic there...


    LOL it sounds bit odd that way but elected monarchs have been existing in real history and corporations supplying enemy and stuff are at least theoretically possible- political situation during the war have been very strange in real history. What is totally unrealistic is magical warriormonks but those guys have been around since 1977:p
  12. Jabba_The_Hutt_123 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2003
    star 3
    Tanks can get holes, a helmet on top improves chances of survival [if they need the gas which I assume they do]. It'd also mean entering/exiting the tank is far easier, and they can leave the tank if its damaged and useless.
  13. Blackout Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    I don't know a lot about Umbara, but it seems odd to me that the indigenous population are (apparently) unable to breathe the atmosphere, while the clones and Jedi can. Unless, of course, they usually live beneath the surface and breathe from gas-pockets there? Maybe the gas is a stimulant used in battle? Anyway, I'm not going to think about it too much :p

    I enjoyed this episode very much, despite the glitches that you've all pointed out.
  14. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Umbarans needing some gas on their homeworld but not on Coruscant makes absolutely no sense at all since humans needed no gas on Umbara8-} - real reason for umbaran pilots having closed helmets was that they didn't bother to do a different model for them...

    What's even more interesting is that Sly Moore and Mee Deechi were fine in same atmosphere as humans on Coruscant8-}....
  15. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Another outstanding episode.

    This was just so well directed. All scenes were beautifully shot, with the moving camera giving the whole thing a great sense of urgency. Even the music was good, with those deep drums. We didn't really got much development on Krell, he seems to be just a very two-dimensional character, being not much more than a stubborn ****. The clones on the other hand got a real chance to shine this episode, with lots of development for Rex, Fives, Hardcase, Tup and Kix. Great to finally see wounded clones being dragged around and treated, it all felt so real, with actual stakes. I feel for those clones, and the hopelessness of the mission really added a lot of excitement to the episode. With all this heavy foreboding, it was great to see Fives and Hardcase having a real blast with the starfighters at the end.

    If they keep this up, this is well on its way to being the greatest CW arc ever.


    VERY well put. It's perfectly reasonable for Krell to chose to lead from the back instead of fighting in the frontlines.
  16. Tordelback Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 2
    I meant to refer to Kirk's promotion in the '09 Star Trek - cadet to Captain in about an hour - in reference to Appo. I should have been clearer, but the observation stands that these things happen in a fantasy universe, and for dramatic rather than pragmatic reasons.
  17. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    One thing that some published reviewers picked up on is that Rex initially acquiesces to Krell's demands when he's reminded that the 212th is depending on the 501st to reach the airbase. Time is of the essence and Rex understands this. He knows that Krell's tactics are effective, and the viewer now understands this and that they might just result in a Republic victory. We're encouraged to see a slightly less negative side of Krell in the beginning... that is until things go pear-shaped and Rex proves to be a better tactician.

    Krell certainly does get some development. At the end, he's impressed by Rex's success and doesn't relieve him of command as he said he would. Perhaps he's trying to build bridges?

    However, Rex begins to be the hostile end of the relationship, visibly angered by the idea of seeing dead troopers as an always necessary cost of victory. Neither he nor Anakin have ever been soft on the 501st, and earlier episodes have some pretty high clone body counts, so he's naturally indignant when some Field Marshal Haig figure tells him to change the way he thinks about clone lives.
  18. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    This is how I see Krell's attitude towards the clones:

    The Jedi are supposed to respect all living things. Freedom and freewill are very important things that the Jedi should be helping to uphold throughout the galaxy. However, the Clone Wars thrust them into a very awkward position: They are supposed to lead into battle a throng of troopers that were grown to fight. A mass of people that were engineered to be soldiers for the Republic, and never had any say on the matter. Now on principle the Jedi should have just flat out refused to get involved with the clones, leading them into battle just went against some of their basic beliefs. However, they NEEDED the clones at that point, otherwise the galaxy at large would suffer. So most Jedi went with the "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade", meaning when fate gives you a very handy army of slaves, try to exploit them in the most humane way possible. They give them names, value them as individuals, fight and die alongside them. Doing that, they try to compensate for the fact that they are still exploiting a slave force.

    Krell, on the other hand, seems to have taken a different path in resolving this conflict, one that is actually much simpler and conflict-free: He chose not to recognize the clones as actual people. If the clones are people, the way the Jedi are exploiting them is just about irreconcilable with the Jedi precepts. But if the clones are little more than organic droids, suddenly things become much simpler and straightforward. Clones are tools to be employed in the war, no more than that. And it's not really hard at all to think of the clones that way, when they are mass produced in factories for this exact purpose. If Krell doesn't accept the clones' humanity, there's really nothing wrong with him sending thousands of them to their deaths in order to achieve an important goal. There's nothing wrong with him manhandling them, calling them by numbers and ignoring their protests and advice as little more than programming malfunctions.
  19. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    Another very enjoyable episode! Light on story and character development, yes, but heavy on dramatic battles, great atmosphere and memorable moments.

    Not sure why it was called "The General", though. That title would have made more sense for the first Umbara episode.

    Anyway, another fine achievement, creators of TCW!=D=
    When I'll heard the Clone Wars being mentioned in the movies from now on, the last two episodes will be part of a selection that will pop up in my mind, along with Genndy Tartakovsky's original show and several episodes from this show's four seasons.
  20. InterestingLurker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2011
    star 4
    The glitches are barely noticeable. I think it's just us Star Wars nerds that notice this thing. I never noticed any of the glitches that Fanboy talked about, but then again, I only watched the episode once.

    But there is something that did puzzle me when I watched the episode: the fact that Krell said "Appo" instead of CC-1119. I think the writers just wanted to toss a bone at the fans and it worked out pretty damn well. Every other fan on the internet was like, "Holy crap, it's Appo!" This is, of course, on other SW fan forums besides this one. It doesn't make sense for Krell's character. I actually think that if Krell referred to Appo by his original name, fans still would've picked up the reference. It's really a minor flaw and not meant to imply anything. I'm actually glad that the writers gave a nod to ROTS, even though it doesn't make much sense.

    Anywho, with a race as obscure as the Umbarans getting the spotlight in a major TCW arc, this gives me hope that we could get a Sun Gard arc as well. Oh, Filoni, please make it happen! [face_praying]
  21. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5

    odd was that tanks were also filled with it, but still tankpilots used closed helmets thinking where is the sense in using closed helmet in already closed space?

    Yeah...that really makes me think that the gas is more for the technology than the people.

    Especially since it is heavier than air given the way it leaked out of the crawler tanks.

    Perhaps the gas is the fuel for their tech?

    the fact that Krell said "Appo" instead of CC-1119.
    Maybe Krell just doesn't like Rex.
  22. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I think thats pretty clear[face_laugh]
  23. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    Sergeant Appo cannot really be CC-1119 anyway since that "CC" is clone commander or captain (or other officer maybe)- and when even Rex was CT to him (maybe they all have two designations though) so Appo should've been CT-1119 and that would've also left a little chance of speculation whether he is Appo or not:p

    And he also calls Rex "Captain Rex" few times so he is not totally against using their names - he just prefers numbers to remind them about their place as mere clones...

    If we would have decent ep guides and commentaries we would certainly know by now[face_frustrated]
  24. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Swash, CC doesn't always mean Clone Commander or Clone Captain. Multiple commanders and captains had a CT designation and not a "CC" designation. Appo, and Rex, could still have their CC designations. However, we just don't know why Krell is calling Rex "CT," and why Appo is now a sergeant.
  25. Master_Fwiffo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    star 3
    Two fantastic episodes in a row. My only complaint is that Krell didn't vary up his strategy just a little bit. I'm really hoping this Arc isn't just a one off, but a sign that they're addressing all my issues from the the last season and a half.