Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 408: The General -- Discussion Thread

I'm sorry, 55, I'm not that much of a clone guy either. I like Rex and Fives perhaps, but the rest...don't really mind what happens to them. It is interesting what remains to be seen in the upcoming episode. Four episodes just about Krell and the 501st seems a bit too much, I'd say! It would be good to see this battle from Ryloth-like perspectives, also focusing an episode on the war effort on Kenobi's and Tiin's side. But we'll see. Looking forward to it!

 

I sure do care, and I appreciate the effort you put into identifying those boys, FistoFan. I tend to get the more minor clones mixed up. I always feel guilty when one of them bites the dust and I have to admit I don't know who he was. I'm hoping Tup pulls through; I always have a soft spot for the shinies. Hardcase is awesome, but I don't feel good about his chances either.

I like Jesse mostly because of his role in "The Deserter" - I think his little lecture to Rex about outranking him was just a hint at the conflict with Cut that came later. Could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

And by this point, I'm hoping Krell is as implausibly stupid as they can make him. Oh, for no particular reason at all, uh uh. .

Seriously, I only consider him a foil for the clones; he's not a character that interests me (not yet anyways; that could change). He's a terrible Jedi (unlike Anakin Skywalker...), and he's not a straight military officer. They should have replaced him with Tarkin - now that would have been awesome!

 

Hm, the fortune cookie doesn't make any sense to me. Isn't it ignorance that causes fear? Not the other way round?

 

It definitely sounds like one they made up themselves.

 

Once again it reminds me of Goliath's quote from Gargoyles. -- "What humans don't understand they fear and what they fear they often seek to destroy."

 

Exactly. What humans don't understand, they fear. So it's ignorance that causes fear, not the other way round.

But, as someone on another forum said, fear might in turn reinforce ignorance... just think of Christian parents being paranoid about their kids playing D&D.

 

Man it couldn't be any more obvious Krell is gonna get fragged.

 

It was obvious the minute we knew he would be in this arc.

 

Not in this episode, I think.

 

Nah, not yet. He's got to create some carnage first.

 

Actually, it was Kix that told Rex he outranked him since he was the team-medic. Jesse just took command afterwards because he was next in rank after Rex.
In other words, Jesse was Denal's replacement as the 501st second in command clone.
Yeah, you are kinda behind on knowing minor clones.

Here is a guide:
Jesse- Top ranking of the 501st aside from Rex, the Jedi, and the Arcs. He has the giant Republic symbol on his helmet and his scalp.
Kix- Team medic. Kix has zigsags on his scalp and helmet. In Phase 2, he has a medical cross on his shoulder.
Hardcase- The nutcase with the big gun. He has teardrop-like lines under his eye.
Tup- This clone has less blue on him than any other 501st troop. He has a tear under his helmet's visor. His hair is tied in a ponytail.
Dogma- His helmet has a large jagged "V" on the entire front. He also has a jagged V tattood on his face.
Hawk- Famed 501st Clone Pilot that was in this series since TCW film. It was only in "the Hidden Enemy" that his helmet first had unique features on it like the red birds on both sides of his blue painted helmet.

As for anyone outside the Umbaran episodes:
Denal- This was the first clone of the 501st to have unique paint on his helmet aside from Rex. He was killed by Cad Bane in "Cargo of Doom".
Mixer (Fixer?)- looks alot like Denal. He debuted and was killed in "Voyage of Temptation".
Redeye- Only unique feature was the red dot on his helmet. He has the same story as Mixer (Fixer?).
Tango Squad- The unfortunate clones from "Brain Invaders".

 

The clones are arguably the best thing about this show.

 

Awesome catch on the confusing thread name.

With this ep, we'll only be halfway through, so I doubt Krell will be fragged just yet. We can infer a few possibilities for him, though. It's possible that over time we might see more facets of his character and he might redeem himself slightly with his actions if not his words. But given the growing trends for storytelling, it's also entirely possible that Krell will remain a total murglak, and we will love him and the writers for it.

 

Heh. Told you. Actually, I get those two mixed up - I knew Kix was a medic. But I always associate the "Jesse, you better get back here!" with calling the medic, and well, there you go. I mean, it's not like they all share the same face, or anything. .

Thanks for the listing!

 

I actually hope that Krell comes out of this conflict humbled, but not dead. We need more Jedi like him to counterbalance the inordinate amount of pure heroic Jedi.

Krell appears to be taking notes about Byronic Heroes, which I definitely appreciate seeing. He's a good guy, but he is incredibly flawed, in this case the flaw being Arrogance or Stubbornness. If they want to make him into an interesting character though, they need to admit that sometimes his approach does work. Otherwise, he is relegated to being a foil for Anakin, and not a good one.

As a foil, he's one of the worst kind, a stereotype so blatant that you can see the neon lights spelling "isn't Anakin sooo much better than this loser?" over his head.

 

I actually would like for Krell to make it through the arc and not learn anything. That stuff is overrated in cartoons. =P

 

If he doesn't learn anything, then it defeats any higher purpose Krell might serve than just being a jerkass.

A grudging respect he might get, but I don't expect a 180 Degree personality change. He can still be a jerkass, just a jerkass that has had some more experience with dissenting opinions.

 

That was my main problem with the last episode. It felt like he had a 180 degree personality change near the end, when he refers to Rex by name (and in the preview for the next episode as well).

 

Krell didn't change at all in the last episode in my opinion. I think he mocked Rex then dismissed his opinion, basically told him -- "You've got fire kid, but I still don't care about your opinion."

 

There are pros to both options, really.

Learning from the experience is standard for character development, and hints at deeper depth and innate qualities. Certainly, change and conflict are part of what drives storylines. The basic idea is that "The character can change, so he is dynamic."

On the other hand, Krell IS already an example of a very obvious 'jerk Jedi'. Having him keep that preserves the novelty without dipping into the chance of being accused of 'losing his fangs', so to speak. The basic idea here is "They avoided the warm fuzzies cliche."

I wouldn't mind going the middle route as Seerow suggested, though. I'm a big fan of that.

 

I'm gonna have to disagree, he had no sarcastic tone in his voice or anything along those lines, he sounded like he was talking normal. He was more surprised that two clones just talked back to him probably. Something he isn't used to.

He shouldn't completely turn all goody goody on us but I think he respects Rex and Fives now enough to call them by their names not their numbers. I don't think that will change his strategy for taking the capital though and Rex and Fives will continue to question his orders.

 

I give you that he doesn't sound very sarcastic and I think Krell was doing that on purpose. For a moment when listening to what he starts to perceive as progress Rex puts on his characteristic smile using only his eyes until Krell puts his finger in his face again and looks him in the eye, when Krell starts talking again about how effective his command is. Then he said -- "Your opinion has been noted and dismissed." -- And walks away without a second glance. At that moment Rex looks like he wants to punch something. In my opinion he was mocking Rex whose fairly sure of it. Fives' -- "I think he complemented you." -- Was completely sarcastic. I kinda think they set this seem up to be a little dubious so the viewer can read into it how they want.

 

I love this picture:

[image=http://www.starwars.com/img/explore/the-clone-wars/ep408_hero2.jpg]

 

I find it interesting how many people think Krell is such a hardass and flawed Jedi.

I'm kinda with CT on this, as I mentioned in the 407 episode thread, he is a character that is a certain type of military officer: by-the-book, take-no-guff, commander.

I think people need to realize that Rex should really be shutting down ANY talk about the General not knowing what he's doing, or suggesting the slightest hint of something that could be treason.

In a battle situation, if you refuse a direct order of your commander, you can be court-martialed and executed on the spot.

It's also the commanding officer's job to achieve the stated goal, in any way possible. This may seem like a callous use of the clones to the viewer, but as my military history prof always said, as a soldier, you're not trained to kill, you're trained to die.

The reason why Jedi, unless they're exceptional like Kenobi and Skywalker, would make such bad generals, is because they are too concerned with collateral damage.

Remember in Shatterpoint, Mace Windu says the strategically correct thing to do on Geonosis in AOTC would be to nuke the planet, even if it did sacrifice Kenobi, Skywalker & Padme. But that's not the Jedi way.

 

You'd think a guy with 4 arms wouldn't have any trouble holding his own comlink.