Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 415: Deception Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    I think it was either B_C or Garth that said they thought the whole thing on Naboo would be the attempted kidnapping. Looks like they were right
  2. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    On first viewing, I missed the upcoming event on Naboo, the one Palpatine will attend. Hearing it the second time helped make sense of the kidnap plot. It also makes sense, logically speaking, that Palpatine would go, considering he is from Naboo. Hard to remember sometimes.

    OH! And Bane has escaped more than once! That explains Aura's participation in the hostage situation at the Senate.
  3. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    This, to me, was the best episode since the Umbara arc. Some great story ideas here, and subtlety, and decent dialogue, and some moral decisions.

    I love it. Can't wait for this arc to take off. I just hope they find a way to break out Boba and Bossk.
  4. CGI-BOBAFENT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 3
    Beards no prob, I pretty much only have to click my fingers and I have full grown captain birdseye facial fuzz so can't imagine Kenobi having much of a prob, as for rapid hair growth for ROTS ...hmmmm.....he's rolling with a bad crowd now and the dark side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be ....unnatural ;)


    Banes voice ftw and nice to see Obi-wan using "Ben"
  5. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, growing facial hair is no problem for some men, but the rapid hair growth could be a problem.
  6. AvadaKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2009
    star 2
    Wow, that was a load of fun. I must say I enjoyed that a lot and, like Obi-Wan, I liked seeing him play the villain. ;)

    - The tension between "Rako" and Cad Bane is fun. I have a feeling Bane is going to figure out who Rako is pretty quick.

    - Anakin definitely was completely torn up about Obi-Wan's death. I find myself criticizing Matt Lanter's work as Anakin, but he played him very well here. You could just feel his pain when he went to arrest Rako.

    - "Jedi? Eh, I already killed a Jedi today." Nice, Obi-Wan. [face_laugh]

    - Obi-Wan seemed to be having a ball with this whole undercover thing, but seemed to lack any empathy for Anakin or Satine's feelings. Hell, he seemed to be amused about how his funeral went. I dunno if I like that very much. I kinda expected him to be more upset about the fact that he's lying to the people he cares about for the sake of the mission.

    - Speaking of which, it's bad that they kept Anakin out of the loop, but I understand why. I doubt that grieving over Obi-Wan would be something Anakin could fake convincingly.

    - Obi-Wan established his bad-ass role in the prison quick. Must've been all those prison films he watched on the Holo-Net to prepare. ;)

    All in all, I was excited for this episode and definitely wasn't disappointed. Kinda bummed about them not showing a real teaser for next week's episode, but oh well. I'll be watching next week regardless.

  7. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Thoughts as I go, haven't read the thread.

    High hopes for this.

    Good newsreel.

    Huh. Pretty convincing by Kenobi.

    Ah. Confirms my guess the Palps plot was supposed to occur on Naboo.

    Awesome he looks like Ewan in TPM.

    This is like MI.

    Ah ha ha the beard grab with no beard.

    Interesting that Ahsoka isn't restraining Anakin.

    Prisoners repeating lines. Is that purposeful or lazy?

    He's meeting Eval a little early.

    This is Ben!!!!!!

    Best script this show has had in some time.

    Boba doesn't sound like himself.

    They put Bane into a prison he already broke out of?

    You'd think they would lock the ship so that a trooper only could operate it.

    Really pretty great episode. Cliche to an extent but fun. Good pacing.
  8. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    That whole scene was the only major issue I had with the episode. I explained it in the previous page.

    Garth: "They put Bane into a prison he already broke out of?

    You'd think they would lock the ship so that a trooper only could operate it."
    Yeah, good points, especially the Bane issue. I didn't really look into that when I watched the episode. That's pretty stupid of the Coruscant Guard.
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Okay, I really think I need a second viewing - hair, what's all this talk of hair growth? And Obi-Wan's "death" - slipped by me, he escaped injury how?

    As for his "lack of empathy" I gather he didn't see it and probably didn't realize Satine's or Anakin's actions (I can't see Mace clueing him in, either).

    I can see why they left Anakin out of the loop initally, but after the "funeral" couldn't they either drop him a very broad clue or fill him in? They wanted an authentic reaction and got it, so NOW explain what's going on. (Maybe Obi-Wan thought Yoda or Mace would - [face_thinking] - he might be pretty upset to find such was not the case later on.)
  10. AvadaKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2009
    star 2
    He was wearing some kind of chest plate under his robes. Sort of a Blaster Proof Vest.
  11. GGrievous Prequel Trilogy Trivia Version 2.0

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I thought he got shot in the arm and then he fell conveniently onto some boxes (I think they were boxes). That vest seemed like a back and chest only blaster proof vest.
  12. CGI-BOBAFENT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 3
    I think everyone is neglectting what was quite possibly the best moment in the Clone Wars ever...nay ....scrap that, best moment in Star Wars EVER!

    SAMMICH IN BANES FACE!!!!

  13. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    GG - yeah that's how I saw it.

    The hair growth thing will just be explained away by saying the episode after this arc will be several months afterward.
  14. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    I'm interested to see by the end how anakins reacts to the fact that even his own master kept this whole undercover mission thing making him think obiwan was killed. It'll be interesting to see how hurt he is and how much mistrust is formed between him and the council.
  15. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    Anakin could decide to leave the Jedi Order but Palpatine talks him out of it, he'd trust Palpatine. He'd lose trust in the Jedi Order, especially Obi-Wan though.

  16. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Eh, I had to post quickly because a friend called...

    Yes, I saw the chest plate thing. I meant the whole set-up. It seems the whole attack was real. It also seems that Obi-Wan either took advantage of (or it was a set up all along) because he clearly seemed to let go of his lightsaber and step into the line of sight.

    I guess I'm questioning how much was set up and much of was "taking advantage" of circumstances (and what was that sentence or two about how he fooled Ahsoka - that too went by while I was chomping away on some nachos[face_laugh] ).

    And that facial transformation thing - yeech, what was that procedure? Seemed painful.

    I did like how beardless, bald Obi-Wan looked like TPM Obi-Wan.

    I agree with whoever stated it will be interesting how Anakin and Obi-Wan confront this issue of deception IF they do (and they should, they really should).
  17. CGI-BOBAFENT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 3
    I do wonder if they'll keep the look for a little while for Mauls return
  18. WedgeWalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    -And "good guy goes under cover in prison isn't a cliche? I mean, really, writing a blindingly original story is really pretty difficult these days, given how many stories have been told. And it's not like GI Joe and Harry Potter invented the plot devices you mention. I mean, was I the only one who thought "InnerSpace!!" ? I say, "yes, audiences have seen these plot devices before...but not in Star Wars."
    -Episodes II and III seem to establish those two has the top two Jedi in the order. It sort of makes sense they'd be point on this mission. Plus, if all the council gets involved, that would have made for a crowded room, and might have raise suspicions.
    -Maybe he's away on a mission.
    -"...Since it happened." Presumably some time (at least an hour, but probably longer since Satine is there) passed between the "death" and the funeral. Ahsoka's claim is that during THAT time Anakin hasn't said anything

    And I don't think CN showed a preview for next week's episode in particular. Bummer.
  19. AvadaKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2009
    star 2
    Mace sorta explained it to Rako when they captured him at the bar. The real Rako was hired by Mace and Yoda to assassinate Obi-Wan in order to steal his identity and infiltrate the prison. Rako had no idea that his employer was the Jedi. So, to Rako, it was a real job. All Obi-Wan had to do was get into place, get shot and fall into some boxes, probably placed there before the whole thing started.

    Obi-Wan falls, Rako escapes thinking his target is dead and he goes to the bar to celebrate his victory. The only thing is how did the Jedi know he was going to go to the bar for a victory drink? Maybe that was where they agreed to meet afterwards. I dunno.
  20. WedgeWalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    I figured that although he might not like it, he's already accepted it (indeed, he tells Mace and Yoda that it was important for Anakin to have been left out of the loop), and is now trying not to dwell on it. You know, focusing on the mission.

    Or, perhaps his joking is an attempt to hide his feelings.
  21. Confederate_Republic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2011
    star 1
    That was... definitely interesting! I'd go ahead and say best episode since Umbara just gonna list some Pros and Cons instead of a fuller review because it's late.

    Pros:
    -Obi-Wan Episode. At last.
    -I never thought the Show did Coruscant well, but this was pretty good.
    -Wide Variety of Alien Species. The Bartender was cool if a cliche in the voice department.
    -The Karkarodon Scene.
    -Design of the Prison was good.
    -I liked the addition of the Morgue and the escape.
    -Sandwich. Best. Weapon. Ever.
    -Addition of "Ben" Codename

    Cons:
    -Ahsoka was pointless. She did nothing, said nothing, she only served to just be there.
    -Another "RAARGH! ANAKIN SMASH!" moment.
    -The hell was that? Plastic Surgery in a shot?
    -Voice boxes double as Assassin probes, it seems.
    -Boba, again, seemed like Fanservice.
    -Speaking of which, the Republic really throws in Minors with Adult prisoners?
    -Morolo Eval was ridiculous. He killed his mother because he was bored? Really?
    -Morolo Eval is a Separatist. Demonic Separatist Trope Activated.

    Undecided:
    -Not sure where I stand with Obi-Wan refusing to kill the guard. Yeah, he is unarmed, but even more, he is technically on his side, but the whole idea of the mission is deception and sacrifice. His mercy accomplished neither. To play the "Bad Guy" you need to get into the role, get inside his head, not your own. I'm worried he may blow his own cover by acting like a Jedi instead of a ruthless criminal.
  22. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    Obi-Wan's hair is shorter in ROTS than it is in AOTC. So this likely explains why.
  23. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    I wish Poggle and Tambor would've gotten cameos, even if it was a short glimse of them in their cells.

    That wouldn't of hurt anything.
  24. Strika23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    The episode was really good overall, my only complaint was that facial construction plastic surgery thing. It seemed way too farfetched. I can see the voice robot thingie being more realistic, but changing the bone structure on a person's face? Not to mention Obi Wan magically got tattoos from this procedure too? HUH?

    My second complaint is not seeing Aurra Sing. Season 2 and 3 built her up to be just as badass as Cad Bane. Why is she not in this arc? Actually for that matter, where are any of the female criminals who have been arrested thus far? (Aurra, Cassie, Ione, Cato, etc). I understand if they keep the men and women separated from one another, but if that is the case then why is Boba (a minor) mixed in with a bunch of adult men? If women criminals are separated then shouldn't the minors be too?
  25. quiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 2
    Nice episode, enjoyed the city scenes well done.

    I thought the Jedi told the bounty hunter that the whole thing was to "fake" Obi's death. Just didn't tell them the reason to fake Obi's death was to have Obi take his place in prison. I thought the shot hit his shoulder not arm, covered by plate.

    I think they handled Obi fighting the guards okay, though I think he might have "knocked" out the guards some how rather then avoiding shooting them thus leaving it to Bane. Could have laughed it off then, I only kill when I'm paid sorta thing, don't like excess bodies.

    Don't mind the face change, voice change, though again we see Obi tortured, though this time by his own side !!!!

    IT will be interesting to see where this episode ends up in the time line ... how close to ROTS is it ...

    edit: if you think about it having the whole thing be a fake murder attempt from the beginning would explain why Anakin, Ahsoka did not sense anything before the shot's as they were not really done to attempt to kill anyone.