Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 415: Deception Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Gry Sarth, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    If Ahsoka recognizes Obi-Wan and Anakin doesn't, I'm done.
  2. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Actually, no (IMHO)...Anakin was so full of rage he didn't really look at "Obi-Wan." He was focused on his rage and grief, while Ahsoka was much calmer with a different focus. Like I said, it was noticeable that she stared at Obi-Wan like something didn't add up.

    In THIS case, IF they go that route, I might find it plausible.

    After all, Anakin is focused on his feelings at losing Obi-Wan, not at Obi-Wan's loss, while Ahsoka is focused a bit wider with her main focus being Anakin's reaction to Obi-Wan's death.

    No one but Satine seems to be concerned that Obi-Wan is "dead."

    ~~

    Oh, and someone mentioned in the newsreel about Obi-Wan seeming weary or something. When I rewatch it, I'll check again, BUT he did seem concerned and perhaps a bit apprehensive (concerned about Anakin's reaction?).
  3. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Anakin's angry, Ahsoka's concerned, everyone looked pretty sad to me..
  4. quiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 2
    I didn't try to record this in HD, did that with the last two episodes of the slave arc... and put them on disk, was very very disappointed with the results and didn't watch them before deleting them from hard drive... so went back to my tried and true of just recording them and watch on TV and not really worry about quality of the show on my recorded disk. Which is a pity as the graphics of this episode were really good, I think I'm going to really enjoy this season on DVD when it comes out. The speeder scene in this episode reminds me of episode 2 scenes when they chased the face changer.
  5. Darth_Harmon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2005
    star 4
    I wonder if Rako Hardeen's name was in any way inspired by b-movie actor Rondo Hatton:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondo_Hatton

    The names are pretty similar, and both have pronounced noses, mouths and cheekbones. Also, Rondo's big movie The Brute Man was about a normal looking man who transformed into what Rondo looks like, just as Obi transformed into Rako. Though Rondo looks more cartoonish than Rako.

    Eh, might be a stretch, but I saw the connection.
  6. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Eye of the beholder and all that <shrugs> - it was hard to even see who all was at the funeral.

    I agree Anakin was angry and all that; I guess it's hard to explain what I mean but it's less that Obi-Wan was killed, dead and gone, but that HE lost someone close to him - the grief and anger is for HIS loss, not the loss of Obi-Wan, if that makes any kind of sense (kind of how I see Anakin towards Padme at least in the films, everything centers around HIS needs and yes, I am overstating that).
  7. AvadaKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2009
    star 2
    And Ahsoka looked absolutely devastated when she was holding Obi-Wan in her arms.
  8. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah, but at least you know it. lol I understand what you mean though. Eye of the beholder.
  9. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    What's this?! A rational, well-argued, well-thought-out response to such a scenario? What forum is this?!
  10. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Rumble - stop baiting, please.

    Valairy - yes I can see them take this exact scenario, but why? To show that Ahsoka has already surpassed her master? To show that Anakin has attachment problems?

    I'd much prefer a scenario where it is Anakin who senses the true identity - these guys are supposed to be brothers.
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Ah, why indeed...I'm not sure there needs to be a why. Anakin is not thinking clearly and Ahsoka is better able to control her emotions due to her Temple upbringing? I'm no fan of "super-Ahsoka" as I've made clear, but I don't think this would be in that category. (For the record, I don't {yet}have a preference for Anakin sensing it's Obi-Wan, or Ahsoka instead or for the good ole plot device that gets in the way of Anakin striking down Ob-Wan.)

    As for this "sensing" thing - how much is canon and how much fanon? This ability to sense and to communicate through the Force has been seen different ways in different time periods of fanon - when I first started writing fanfic a lot of writers thought such was ridiculous and now it's pretty well accepted.
  12. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    So funeral pyres aren't the norm?

    I really think that's suspicious in itself. Most EU, when a jedi dies, they get burned. First one we saw was Qui-Gon's. Personally I'd have burned a fake body to really make it hit home.

    Otherwise, enjoyed it. Love the Mace/Obi interaction as well as Yoda. There needs to be more jedi bonding in these episodes.
  13. Karachi_Kenja Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2006
    star 1
    Something just occured to me- If Obi-Wan has this giant bug of a voice emulator in his throat, how in the world is he supposed to eat? Wouldn't his food just get stuck?
  14. Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2010
    star 5
    ^yeah that thing was far too big to be believably working[face_tired] I forget to add that to the cons....

    No- it is another way around- Jocasta Nu in Assassin proves this- Ahsoka is introduced to her in Holocron Heist and they seem to know each other well in Assassin. TODO was rebuilt after that incident in same episode.


    If Ahsoka recognises Obi-Wan and Anakin doesn't that sucks but if Ahsoka somehow learns about the plot and then stops Anakin then it's okay.

    BTW I think that it may be Bane or Obi-Wan in that senate guard armor in the clip we saw in the old trailer.[face_thinking]

    Since we probably see Nal Hutta again (trailers) would be interesting to see Nar Shaddaa also... but if so it sucks if they change Shaddaa- it is my favorite EU-places I don't want to see it to be turned to purple weequayland or anything[face_worried]....

    There seems to be more human bounty hunters than Rako and Dengar and prisoners also had a lot of humans and that lady in cantina. Finally they have humancriminals- they were totally lacking from the previous seasons with all scum in cantinas etc. being non-humans.

  15. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Watched the whole episode.. that was a nice change to focus on the bad guys, and I liked the treatment of them. And I'd recently seen the jail break episode from 'Young Justice' too which seemed similar to this (and was also good). Well-done episode overall.

    Only quibble.. I've said it before: Obi-Wan's voice performance. Just while he's getting shaved it bothers me. Too bad, I was just starting to like him more, but the nonchalant and smarmy performance is just overdone. He couldn't transform fast enough. lol
  16. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah -- I kept waiting for him to ask Mace out for a spot of tea or a cricket match.
  17. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    JAT is good; but he takes it way over the top sometimes.
  18. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    Jolly good show[face_laugh]
  19. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    On a side note, why isn't every character on this show with an American accent morbidly obese and stupid? You guys want a stereotypes war, I'd be happy to get the cane out the cupboard and give you a damn good thrashing. I'm sure Humble will be happy to join in too if he's not stoned off his ass at the moment.
  20. Blackout Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    Loved the tone and pacing of this episode, but a few things are niggling at me...

    ? Why is Obi-Wan using the cover-name Ben? As cool as it is, seeing the origin of the pseudonym and all, he's supposed to be Rako Hardeen, not some bloke called Ben. Using name C when he's supposed to be name B is almost as risky as...

    ? Mace: Be careful not to blow your cover.
    Obi: What, like having a one-sided conversation to my hand in an open exercise area, rather than smuggling this comms gear to somewhere more private?

    ? I know that the plot necessitates Bane being mistrusting of Hardeen, but Kenobi's reluctance to slot that guard was sloppy. As has been stated already, if you're going undercover, you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty.

    Other thoughts:

    ? It's nice to see so many species in the prison, but from the neck down, they all looked identikit to me. I know they were all wearing orange overalls, but there didn't seem to be a lot of physical variations. Not a massive bugbear, just something I thought of while watching it.
    <EDIT 2> Watching it again, I can see some variation, so maybe not. I guess it was just because they're humanoid that I thought they were the same model. What a specist I am ;)
    </EDIT 2>

    ? Did anyone else think that Hardeen in the sniper's helmet was reminiscent of the mercenary character models from Jedi Academy? It may be a coincidence, but I liked it a lot.

    ? I loved the tone of this episode. I re-watched RotS for the first time in about 6 months yesterday, and it struck me again that TCW Anakin neither looks, sounds or acts like the movie Anakin (in RotS or AotC). It'd be nice if there was a permanent darkening of his outlook after this arc, rather than him just saying 'Oh, you guys! You had me there! Ha haa! etc' and pretending it didn't happen.

    Despite my nitpicky grumbles, this is among my favourite eps of Season 4.
    More like this, please. Bravo!

    <EDIT 1> Thinking about the name thing, I suppose it could be so that anyone eavesdropping to an audio-only version of the conversation can't trace it directly back to Hardeen. Then again, the commlink is either secure, or it isn't (in which case, don't risk the mission by using it), and he is talking in direct view of the rest of his cell-block. Duh.
    </EDIT 1>
  21. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    The name thing was most likely their way of throwing a bone to the fans, but of course they didn't fully think it out. It's quite a jarring scene to watch and it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief to accept that no-one looked in his general direction for the entire duration of his not-so-subtle conversation. Even the shock trooper who was walking towards him and forced him to hang up early, was completely blind and oblivious to what was going on around him. Which begs the question why was he put on guard duty if he doesn't notice any of these things?

    And I'm glad someone agrees with me over Obi Wan's hesitation.
  22. Togruta Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    Nice rant.
  23. Blackout Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    Oh, and another thing.

    After Mace Windu debriefed him personally, and Kenobi appeared as his doppelganger talking about being in prison, Hardeen's aleady got way more information than he can be let loose with, even after the completion of the mission. In a realistic sense (and that's the vibe I'm getting from the episode), Rako Hardeen is a loose-end that'll need to be tied up. Permanently.

    That's the other thing I loved about the episode. I don't expect the act to be shown on screen or explicitly referred to, but as long as Hardeen isn't just mind-smudged and released, I'll be happy if we never see him again. [face_devil]
  24. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    A code name, with Ben a bone to the fans, in case the real Rako escapes?

    The voice box modulator: it looks larger than the throat, so yeah, how does he eat and more important, how will Obi-Wan get rid of the thing?

    "You, down there, time to crawl out and do hurry it up so I don't gag."
  25. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    I'm still getting over the fact that he managed to swallow it all in one go.