Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 418: Crisis on Naboo Discussion Thread

Seerow-- to back up what you're saying regarding Dooku's motivation, this is from the Starwars.com Trivia gallery for the episode:

THE SECRET OF THE BOX REVEALED: The outcome of this episode illuminates the intent and reality of "The Box." Dooku's plan was never about getting bounty hunters to successfully kidnap the Chancellor. It was about diverting the Jedi from his real kidnapping attempt. That means Dooku suspected a Jedi would infiltrate his conspiracy, and the Box exercise was about flushing that Jedi out, which is why Dooku took such interest in Rako Hardeen's actions and abilities.

Of course, the trivia should have elaborated on the other layer of deceipt at play here, Dooku's apprenticeship to Palpatine, and what Palpy was really planning to get from this. It's obvious to me that this was Palpatine's plan to pit Anakin vs. Dooku to test Anakin's skill, and drive the wedge between Anakin and the council.

I have to say it was great to see Obi-Wan getting to "save the day" at the end, which was highlighted to the audience by Dooku's speech to him. A nice way to end this Obi-wan-centric arc which showed his crafty skills put to good use. On the flip-side, it was salt in the wound for Anakin to hear Dooku talk about how great Obi-wan is and how Anakin sucks after Anakin had been lied to and manipulated through the whole arc.

What a disappointing end to a promising episode-arc - pure crap once again - goodlooking yes- animation is nice but extremely crappy story of TCW- same sith spit we were offered during the first episodes of this season- ugh

Best thing in the episode was Sio Bibble animation model(and he didn't even say anything) and that tells a lot about the episode - bh:s that used to be cool were embarassed really and didn't have chance to shine- those cloned human workers from HOBS are real redshirts- killing them is not badass.... Overall story made no sense and Anakin vs. Dooku on Naboo with yellow magnas and pointless plot.... WE ALREADY SAW THIS DURING THIS SEASON! Come on Dave and George and others how many times we "need to see" Anakin fighting Dooku on Naboo(WTF?) with Dooku's magnaguards and no sense involved in the story?!

Dooku just sits there on Naboo palace- seppie leader alone on Republic world?????? Again! Damn that would be like Churchill would find Hitler sitting in the Buckingham Palace during WW2.....suspicious really -

Palpy really doesn't afraid that people would connect him and Dooku because he allows Dooku to visit Naboo every two weeks...... Palpy should very quickly connect Dooku with queen or Bibble or gungans so his continuous visits to Naboo would be explained by someone else being conspiring with him. But jedi council is so dumb that they don't see oddity of this- it just makes no sense unless Dooku has some connection to Naboo.

For Mortis' sake Naboo people get some protection to your world!!- Grievous and Dooku and random bounty hunters can come and go as they please- all the way to the royal palace

It doesn't take long before Anakin finds a secret bunker of Dooku and Grievous under Padmé's bedroom in Varykino or something (and to save continuity Grievous is just behind the corner so Anakin cannot see him) but he meets his arch enemy old Count once again, and his powers are doubled every time...

pros and cons:
+naboo looks nice
+animation, like the duel ,was well done but if only it wouldn't be Anakin again but Mace for once
+Sio Bibble and random Naboo officer

and then to cons that are numerous:
-shadow holothingy was extremely stupid piece of magically convenient technology Okay Obi-Wan and Embo are humanshaped but how can hologram turn parwan to a human senate guard? (and even make him to suddenly speak basic with human voice when needed?? he doesn't need to swallow giant bugs to do that- why Obi-Wan had to do that?- Is shadow hologram something jedi order cannot afford?) and frenk also has totally different body shape than human guards....
-Dooku on Naboo with no explanation given how he managed to get there so easily and IU that makes no sense at all to find CIS-leader in Republic palace. Such oddity endangers Palpatine's identity as Sidious- because Dooku needs help from the inside to get in the Royal palace of Naboo undetected.
-No separatist prison break of any kind in this arc- I don't count the one escape in Deception because no one we knew really escaped the prison- Bane was not captured in any material we saw- Morallo Eval is a new fellow we didn't even know and Obi-Wan was just working undercover.... all those we knew were imprisoned still remain in prison- but now in the end of the arc both Bane and Eval ended up back to prison (making the break in Deception pointless) and now even Embo is there!

Damn they really need to show that awaited prison break during 5th season ....

Oh the holographic thing is that "Disguise Matrix" Sinrich invented- Dooku is fool when he let this genius to die in the Box- he is crappy as BH but wizard what comes to technology- they could've used this matrix to so many things- make Dooku doppelgängers and everything- or what about making doppelgängers of separatist prisoners and change them quietly to real ones so Re

Honestly, this plot sucks. Anakin's skills have been tested countless times already. His duel with Dooku on Tatooine was the only duel we needed between him and Dooku. Him getting angry has become really old and annoying. Anakin falls in line with those stupid cartoon characters that can't take a chill pill without doing something stupid.

Not only that but now Dooku has lost the trust of the best Bounty Hunters in the galaxy. Why would they work for a guy that refused to pay them and get them in prison? Now they would HAVE to include Durge in the show.
Oh wait......that isn't gonna happen cuz TCW team can't be creative about this, can they?

The thing is, this arc made the possibility of a proper prison break story very unlikely. In the eyes of TCW team, they've already done a prison break story, so they'll probably we wary of going to that well again any time soon.

how far into the clone wars is season 4 set ?

No one knows the timeline yet.

Interesting conclusion to the arc, so Dooku suspected that Kenobi was Hardeen from the start that makes sense.

Random thoughts

Relentless really sums Anakin up nicely, he just keeps coming, as of this point I think Anakin can take anyone in a straight fight, he just keeps getting outsmarted, I think Palpatine is waiting for Anakin to start using a bit of cunning in the heat of battle (which of course he does in ROTS), which reminds me of NG?s quote about Anakin in ROTS where he said as a swordsman Anakin is a 9 but he doesn?t have the mental side to go with the skill. Saying that with a bit more experience and method Anakin will be a real wrecking ball.

Obi Wan just dominated every situation in a manner which only Yoda & Mace have demonstrated up to this point, If it wasn?t for the ease in which Dooku beats him in ROTS I think we would class him as been on there level. Knocking seven bells out of Cad Bane without a weapon shows how scary good he is.

I was expecting more from Embo, Mace & the rest of the hunters.

The fire work display was very reminiscent of the display before the quiditch world cup in the goblet of fire.

The Count loves to get these sly digs in at Anakin (probably Palpatine?s idea to further Hulk Anakin up).

I don?t really think Anakin?s anger with the council is being adequately conveyed.

I think most people watching this will be like what?s Anakin problem, when in reality we would all be pretty p*ssed if we were told that our father had been killed only to later find out that he?s alright and the reason you weren?t told about this is because your apparent friends and colleagues don't trust you.

Really? I think most people would go the opposite.

Too bad we'll never get to see Obi-Wan and Anakin really "have at it" over this. What little we got we were probably lucky to get.

Well, they can still do it if they do the Battle of Coruscant, in fact it may be a nice subplot.

Hm, I think the logic gap/great visual/good story (overall) dynamic is once again at play.
 
-Projectors.  Yes the weakest part.  If this technology existed, we would have seen it all over the place by now.  I?m okay with a tracker that let?s you trace someone?s location from a holo-video call.  That?s not a big stretch and doesn?t change the universe we know.  The projector goes too far though.  It would be used all the freaking time.  Jedi would have to have a standard protocol of making sure the person you?re watching isn?t using one and really somebody else, etc. etc.  And if a pocket projector can create a perfectly realistic 3D color image, why is the standard SW hologram blue and fuzzy?  Stupid.  This isn?t Star Trek (which I also like so hold your fire) where every day a new device is jury rigged in 5 minutes that completely changes the rules.  Let?s not turn SW into that in TCW.
-OW being able to communicate with Mace.  It would have been simpler and better if he just couldn?t.  I mean, how incompetent are the Jedi?  He?s told you the plan, he won?t do his part, so how do you let the bounty hunters pull it off anyway?  OW told you one of the bounty hunters can get through the ray shield, so maybe you?ll want to post a Jedi by the generator.
-Bounty hunter team.  Once again I think we got a nice movie nod, not to one particular film but to a genre.  The badass team planning the heist, setting off, taking guards out, etc.  I did not have a problem with seeing that in the SW universe.  Of course, this book ends with the undercover cop homage that we?ve had with OW on the inside.
-Characterization was pretty strong for the limited window it had.  Anakin and OW both have their issues coming out of this and I think it lines up pretty well with what happens in ROTS.
-Action and visuals are once again very good.  The duel with Dooku was fantastic; absolutely gorgeous, loved the props used in the fight and of course the ESB and ROTS foreshadowing.    
-I?d rate the arc pretty strongly overall (a lot of OW on his own, the bounty hunter team, a big break from following Anakin all over the place, really great visuals at the end.

Regardless of what Dooku's ultimate goal was, this episode makes "The Box" a useless episode, since a whole episode is dedicated to the Bounty Hunters proving themselves, only for the subsequent episode to have them exposed by Obi-Wan, betrayed by Dooku, and have the whole plan fall apart right away.

Also, it's annoying that they never really explore what Sidious and Dooku are trying to accomplish with this stuff. Filoni insists on always showing Sidious as a hologram, and I doubt they'll ever openly show that Palpatine is Sidious in this show, and since they won't do that, they can never show a scene in which Sidious is outlining these plans with Dooku. I'd settle for a behind the scenes explanation from Filoni. I mean, what happens if Anakin and Obi-Wan couldn't rescue Palpatine? Dooku's just going to ransom him back to the Republic anyway? Why? In exchange for what? Are Dooku and Sidious reconciled?

If Palpatine gets captured, he can't reveal himself to be Sidious, and all power falls into Dooku's hands. Does Sidious trust that Dooku, the Sith Apprentice that should be aiming to usurp his master, and the other CIS leaders, that are unaware that Sidious is Palpatine, won't kill him?

The other important piece here is the comparison of Obi-Wan and Anakin in this story arc. Anakin was duped by Obi-wan and the council and further dejected by losing to Dooku, and he's literally bursting with anger and lashing out. Meanwhile the crafty Obi-wan showed his more intelligent, wily, elusive skills in this arc... skills which Anakin does not have. He is smooth and subtle, while Anakin is abrasive and rash. After successfully navigating the slippery slope of his undercover operation, he figures out Dooku's double-cross and runs to the aide of Anakin. When Dooku praises Kenobi's abilities at the end of the episode, I think he is speaking for the writers "Well done Master Kenobi, you are a worthy adversary! I cannot say the same about your young apprentice!"

Anakin has a ways to go before he is ready to defeat Dooku and turn against the Jedi, but this arc further develops the character by pushing his anger and resentment.. .

So does Obi-Wan get to chalk up a "save"? Or is this like Cato Neimodia?

Quick question: where does one find the "trivia" section on sw.com?

Under the "Explore" section on Starwars.com, you select Clone Wars and navigate to the episode you want to look at. Here's the link to the "Crisis on Naboo" episode" http://www.starwars.com/explore/the-clone-wars/ep418/. Then just click on Video/Images and then Slideshows. The Trivia Slide show should be the first one they show which you can click play on. There's one of these Trivia slideshows for each episode, and then usually a Dave Filoni video in this section for each arc, but the video is only added well after the episode have aired.

Also, for those wondering about the explanation for the Holographic Disguise matrix:

starwars.com link

It's on the episode guide. Click on slideshows.

I also don't like how Obi-Wan just walks right past Dooku, retrieves Palpatine, and walks right past him again. They could have made it a bit more dramatic. Have Dooku lunge at him, Obi-Wan has to swiftly duck out of the way, Anakin kicks Dooku back, etc.

Interesting that Anakin is all in a huff about being lied too. Hello? Who's having the secret marriage?

They still could have dealt with Obi-Wan/Dooku and not have had such a craptastic episode as The Box.


Imagine a world where ( I never thought I'd be saying this) we spend 2 episodes on Naboo and Obi-Wan's cover is blown by, say, not killing a security guard.

Imagine a world where we actually spent some time with Mace and Embo, etc.

This is an example where thinking about the episode ruins it.

Sidious has the whole war as his personal newspaper. Dooku probably tells him "Skywalker interfered", which translates as "Skywalker came close to kicking my ass". Sidious has seen Anakin in action before as well and knows Anakin's dark secrets and emotions. I'm pretty sure Sidious doesn't need to know Anakin 360 all around!
This reminds me of that old guy from Family Guy....

lol. VERY good point.

And lets not forget the mass murdering tusken incident. Anakin is a hyprocite to get mad at Obiwan for keeping a secret from him....when he is doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING...except in Anakin's case....its worse because what he is hiding is alot bigger then what obiwan was hiding.