Clone Wars The Clone Wars: Episode 419: Massacre Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Barriss_Coffee, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    This'll happen, hence the title Massacre
    I'm also hoping for a Chu'Anthor or whatever it's called by Yoda. Any links to the Dathomir of the Galactic Civil War Era would be fantastic.

    I also hope Ventress doesn't bite it, not just for canon's sake, but for entertainment value. Unless they intend to make Grievous omnipotent, the CIS will be lacking some quality, interesting heroes
  2. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 4
    On Obsession...

    I've said this before and I'll say it again.

    Even Obsession can be retconned. Yes, even if Ventress is seemingly killed on-screen it can be retconned. Heck, it'd even be a somewhat decent setup for Obsession to take place (the entire premise of Obsession is that Obi-wan and Anakin hunt for Ventress after believeing she didn't actually die like it appeared)

    How is this possible? 2 ways.

    1. If she's killed on screen but her body is salvagable, Dooku could capture her body and revive her. After all, she was revived and somewhat brainwashed when she returned, and this was after she was apparrently near mortally wounded in the comic, resolving all issues with Dooku's loss of her as an apprentice. Furthermore, in the very same issue she reveals she knows a technique for entering a death like state to fool the Jedi into believing she died. Yes, it's a stretch, but with a retcon or two it can be made to still work. That is if Leeland is creative enough. The only way this wouldn't work is if her body is visibly destroyed Even Piell style.

    2. They can move obsession to before TCW and say that Adi Gallia didn't actually die but was merely wounded in the battle of Boz Pity. Ventress then leaves and is somehow intercepted by Dooku after the comic's events and brought back into his service. Kind of dumb, yes, but far from impossible. I'd even say this is the more likely and much simpler retcon. This one would work even if her body is visibly destroyed Even Piell style.

    Yes, I'm stretching it, but if either of these options is chosen, virtually all the previous Republic comics can be preserved in the continuity without any major issues. Obsession is the only arc that presents a real crisis in terms of continuity (so far, more surprise Jedi deaths could always change this I suppose, but Oppo Rancisis would be the only one that'd cause major issues).

    Edit: Scenario 2 also works if Adi Gallia is killed on the show.
  3. sithreaper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    star 3
    Although Grievous did totally smash Ventress & Durge in the comic, Grievous has fallen a long way from the cyborg who routed all those jedi the cartoon.

    In this series Grievous has shown the ability to duel on even footing with Masters Fisto, Koth & Kenobi etc but in each confrontation a good old force push took him out of the game.

    Ventress meanwhile has grown as a character, last time we saw her she could force choke up to four people simultaneously, despite being injured she had Kenobi & Skywalker in a very tight spot before the plot saved them.

    So in theory Ventress rag dolls / force chokes GG out. However as already mentioned knowing this series inconsistency Ventress will probably forget about the force and will get hammered.
  4. quigonobi2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2011
    Does Ventress become a fully fledged nightsister in this arc ? If so combined with her force abilities surely that would give her the edge over Grievious/Dooku ? Also sorry to go off topic slighty how old is Anakin & Obi Wan at the time of the clone wars ?
  5. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    From the looks of it, she goes back to the coven. Ventress is a fascinating character. For Ventress' sake, I hope Talzin doesn't betray her. She's finally where she should be - and I hope her mother is still alive.

    Anakin was 9/10 in TPM, so he should be 21-23 during TCW. OW was 25 in TPM, so he should be 37-39. I can only guess until Filoni gives us the timeline.
  6. quigonobi2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2011
    Thanks for he info i hope Ventress doesnt go she is my fave villan,i have wondered at what stage of the Clone Wars we are at the moment & yes i wish Dave would give us a timeline too!!
  7. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    Well, I just watched the second teaser for this ep. It looks like Dooku stays on Serenno, while Grievous attacks Talzin's clan.

    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120217024228/starwars/images/thumb/b/b5/Epguide419.jpg/830px-Epguide419.jpg]

    Dooku shouldn't have drank the blackroot!

    [image=http://www.theforce.net/2012/tcws4ep19pic3.jpg]

    What is she doing? I hope she survives, because I can't get enough of Mother Talzin!

    Let's not forget the undead army! What's that all about?
  8. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    My question is why?

    Why would Grievous & Dooku have the time, in the midst of a war, to expend resources against the Nightsisters? While the Nightsisters certainly backed Asajj's attempt on Dooku's life, so have numerous Jedi and poresumably the Death Watch?

    Also why not do an orbital bombardment of Dathomir? Though, Grievous vs a Rancor would be fun.[face_thinking]
  9. QuangoFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2011
    star 4
    Why? For the lulz, of course. :p

    Actually, I think it's because the Nightsisters struck a personal blow to Dooku by screwing around with his Sith apprenticeships. From Dooku's PoV (not from Vizsla's, of course), Death Watch are merely a dime-a-dozen provincial terrorist cell that was completely expendable.

    There's the entire Republic military standing between Dooku and the Jedi, while the Nightsisters are a relatively soft target.

    Considering how they treat the Nightbrothers, I can't say I'll feel too sorry about their inevitable extermination. :p
  10. Darth_Gamek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2009
    star 6
    My money's on the rancor. :p
  11. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    Looks like Grievous is using Lok Durd's Defoliator in the battle.
  12. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    In the later EU timeline, Palpatine essentially blockaded Dathomir and kept the witches on that planet as they were a threat. I imagine Dooku (and Sidious) see them as a threat that need to be wiped out or at least they need to be broken for now (much like what Sidious had Maul do to Black Sun).

    Consider this: If they could be turned, they would be a powerful ally (for the Jedi)
  13. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    I'm assuming this from the trailer, but from the sounds of it neither Ventress nor Talzin gets offed in the Nightsister massacre. So, the two main priority targets that Dooku mentioned to Grievous, were not actulaly taken out after all. How is this a big victory? I don't think murdering everyone except the two guys you're supposed to be getting can qualify in any way. The CIS, and the Sith, aren't ones to play psychological warfare on their enemies by killing their loved ones and leaving them with the torment. They just kill everyone. So how is this a 'big' victory for Grievous when he doesn't kill the 2 people he's supposed to kill? I think it's fairly safe to assume that "exact revenge upon" is synonymous with "kill them" in this case.

    Plot shields definitely got a big buff this season.
  14. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Might have something to do with Jedi Alliance, where the Nightsisters stole a big CIS superweapon and tried to attack Coursicant.

    As for why wiping them out on foot? Presumably to take something they have. I imagine Dooku would like to study their rituals and powers at least.
  15. Theo333 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2011
    star 2
    So what does Talzin have against Dooku anyway? What are her motivations? They never really explored the issue of why she would flip off one of the most dangerous men in the galaxy.
  16. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    She's attracted to him[face_laugh]
  17. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Yes 40 years ago Dooku dumped Talzin and ever since she's been festering.
  18. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    The sarcasm isn't needed:p
  19. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Sarcasm? I don't know what you mean.
  20. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    I won't tell[face_whistling]
  21. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Not sure if I believe this, but a friend of mine who lives in Germany says that Grievous looses. Considering it's TCW Grievous, I might have to say that's probably true. I'll find out tonight for myself. He duels Ventress and gains an advantage in the beginning, but she cuts his arms off so that he must order his droids to kill her, but she escapes.
  22. JM_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2011
    star 6
    I read someone's comment on Facebook that said the exact same thing so It probably is true unfortunately[face_tired]this gets really old
  23. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    One of the preview pics shows Grievous missing a lower arm when he has four.
  24. Super_Battle_Droid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 5
    I seriously hope the Hall of Game Awards doesn't take it's place...
  25. DarthKreVass Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2008
    star 2
    Anyone notice that "Old Lady" Sister looked like Palpatine's sister/